I didn't want to derail the original thread with this, but does anyone else feel that the costs of initiation for physical adepts are actually laughably low - especially considering the trend of releasing new powers with every SOTA book, thus getting rid of areas in which adepts simply aren't as good as other character types? (I'm surprised haven't yet seen the power set that'll allow the adept to control a drone network...)

With geasa in place, adepts are no longer penalized by not being able to get their mitts on some of the better pieces of cyber and bio 'ware - and while you do eventually hit the point of diminishing returns when initiating, the adept's potential for improvement seems almost unlimited compared to that of a mundane.

Quite simply, the difference in power at character generation between a cybered mundane and an adept has never been large enough to justify this difference in growth potential - and these days, with all the options available to adepts, it's hard to argue that there even is a power level difference at chargen...

Non of those new adept powers increase power at chargen. If you take the new powers you can’t take some you would have before.

The only problem with the geasa rules is that you can get some that will not affect your performance ever. EG talisman cyber ware.

Edward

An adept at Chargen is still not as powerful as a 1mil cybered sam. The problem with adept ironically is not with them per se, but with the GM. With both adept and sam in his game, the GM would be reluctant to kill off either in the first few runs or game sessions, so the drawback of the adept is not felt as acutely. If the GM made the run such that even the sam had difficulty completing, then the adept might find it hard to stay alive.

I think I have to disagree somewhat. It isn't all about powers versus cyberware, its about skills a lot of times.

Example: My second run was teamed with an Adept (who had a lot of experience playing) and I think another person. The job was simple enough - Blow a warehouse held by a gang up. We got hold of a pound of C4, Mr. Adept remote-detonatored it and chucked it, and we ran like hell.

Skills are huge. If you stick an Adept with no kind of firearms skill inbetween a shootout of skillsofted Street-Sams, of course that Adept is going to wind up chewed to shreds.

But yeah, as for returns, the big problem is that it makes no sense for a runner to be given the kind of money needed to, say, obtain Betaware Wired 3 (4 million) unless its part of a mega-contract with a corporation (I.E. You've done eight runs for Yamatetsu, so they'll pay a little for your loyalty and future work. Oh and you belong to them.) This creates an upper limit of essence versus 'ware, meaning.

"I have .16 left. I can't increase my reflexes, but my skills are fancy cuz I spent Karma on it." - Sort of what the Rigger/Street Sammie in my group says.

The Adepts who play say "Well, I have some Adept Powers (Stev, help me out here) but all my Karma goes to Initiation so my skills suffer. But Improved Reflexes 3 is sweet!"

Ex: Stev (feel free to slam me if I contradict you, buddy) is about a third grade initate. With geases, he intends to have Killing Hands D (he's an unarmed specialist, along with sniper), Improved Reflexes 3 and other powers. Currently just has Killing Hands D and Improved 2.

Gabe from our group has: Cyber-arm with a cybershotgun, Alphaware VCR 1, Alphaware Datajack and Wired 3. He now has .16 essence left.

BIG difference in combat efficiency can be sighted as Stev kills with one touch and has edges helping him with both unarmed and sniping, when Gabe's got 2 Salvette Guardian pistols and ambidex 8.

So you tell me who's got it worse? The answer - Depends on if I allow Karma-For-Cash, cuz suddenly Gabe is capable of getting some better 'ware and thus better stuff out of his 6 points, while Stev can only expand upon his Magic/Power Point rating.

'Neyhow, Stev I hope you have an opinion here.