Sheffield
Apr 29 2005, 03:25 PM
Hey everybody. Here's a question.
In R3, the rules are very specific about Autosoft interpreters not reading activesoft chips {only knowsofts and autosofts}. But in SSG, the Mr. Fix-It has a [b/r] chip included with its autosoft system.
How does that make sense?
More to the point, if autosoft systems can't read activesofts, what's the point of getting a robotic-pilot? You get the adaptation pool, but no skills to apply the adaptation pool to. Or is it assumed that the robotic-pilot rating is the skill rating for all skills the robot would reasonably have (in a manner similar to how drones' pilot rating is their skill for gunnery or piloting tests)?
EDIT: In addition, what determines what skills a robot pilot would have? For drones, the rules are specific as to gunnery and piloting. But what if, as an example, you put a handblade on an anthroform's mechanical arm? Would its robot pilot govern its use? Because there's no autosoft that would and activesofts are supposedly off limits.
Say a rigger has to take his guard dog to the vet, but doesn't want to leave his junkyard unguarded. Could he slot a "Sharpshooter" autosoft in his Mr. Fix-It and put a shotgun in its mechanical hands? Could he slot a specialized "Remington 990" activesoft in the Mr. Fix-It (so long as it rating was below Mr. Fix-It's pilot rating)? Or could he do neither, and rely on Mr. Fix-It's pilot rating?
On the one hand, "Sharpshooter" affects gunnery, and the shotgun isn't mounted.
On the other hand, the appropriate chip isn't compatible (even though the Fix-It comes with an activesoft).
On the other, other hand, the pilot rating is naturally equal to the best skill the bot could have (autosofts max at pilot rating), but it doesn't cost anything extra (so it gets the best skill it could have for free, even though firing a shotgun isn't really in the Fix-It's job description).
I just dunno what to do with this mess. Maybe if we'd gotten more than a single page of robot rules.
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 03:42 PM
Also, there is a Search and Rescue robot in Rigger 3 that has "Demolitions" autosoft...
You're right, SHarpshooter affects gunnery, not shotgun skill,. so giving a GM mr fixit a shotgun would needa shotgun autosoft... but as far as I can tell, its allowed. In our game, we are allowing them, but it has raised some other questions.
Also, if an autosoft interpreter allows knowsofts.. .it allows linguasofts, which are a subset of knowsofts.... so, if your GM Mr. Fix-it can learn english, it should be able to learn how to shoot a gun.
The rigger book also says that using pilot as skilsl should only apply to things about controlling the vehicle... so your GM Mr. Fixit would get it for things like Tracks (to move) Mechanical arms (to use its hands) and that sort of thing.
Incidentally, they make shitty build/repair bots, since they have to roll their mechanical arms AND their B/R skill (at 3 dice) and take the lower of the two results.
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 03:47 PM
One such problem, is that a PC with a computers activesoft slotted is more than capable of using that chip to perform programming.
I have a GM Mr. Fix it (6 of them acutally), and one of them has a mini-satalite dish mounted on it, and some router stuff so it can conenct ot he matrix, and link the conenctio nto me and my deck via radio signal.
In order to aim the dish, you have to use "comptuers" skill, so that's why I gave him the activesoft... so he could aim the dish and pick up a signal on his own... but later, it dawned on me, that I could design a program plan for a program... give the UML diagram or whatever to the drone, and instruct him to program the damn thing (as long as its rating is 3 or less)... and it could work 24 hour days...
So it can program small programs faster than I can. Now, I have an IVIS chip for it (but not the sender for my deck)... should I find the money to get the sender module, he will become even faster at programming.
The thought then dawned on me that because the Mr. Fix-it brand bots are so cheap... you could get a bunch of them together, and pump out programs at no cost whatsover. The programs would even pay for the maintenince of the drones....
But I've decided not to use such a silly tactic, to avoid the wrath of my GM
Program prices would plummet, however, if any of the big Corps caught onto this idea.
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 03:52 PM
Also, as to the one page of robot rules... the GM Mr. Fix-it isn't a robot.
Sheffield
Apr 29 2005, 03:57 PM
You're right about that. For some reason I thought the Fix-It had robot pilot, but I was getting it confused with Felix. So my "other, other hand" possibility above is out.
So say this rigger's guard dog dies at the vet. He decides he's tired of vet bills and buying dog food, so he builds a medium anthroform with robotic-pilot [2] and an autosoft interpreter.
Same question as above: Can he buy this robot a Car [b/r] 2 chip to help out around the shop? If he wanted this robot to guard the shop in his absence, what would govern its ability to work a shotgun?
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 05:03 PM
Depends on the Prime Directive of the robot. When you build a robotic pilot, you have to give it a Prime Directive... For the search and rescue robot, its probably something like "Saving humans" or something... for your felix SynthCat its probably something like "Act like a real cat"...
Robots can only apply their adaptation pool to their actions when it is in line with their prime directive. SO your cats gets like 3 dice to act like a real cat... your robot is good at going into dangerous places, and lifting heavy shit off of your unconscious body...
... a build/repair robot would probably have a Prime Directive revolving around either repairing or modifying vehicles of a certain type... so it would get its adaptation pool for its B/R skills, but not with a shotgun if you say something like "Also, shoot anyone besides me who enters.."
However, if you got a robot who's Prime Directive was something like "Defend your home from intruders" and then installed an autosoft with B/R Skills, then it will get to apply its aaptation pool to any combat skill it uses but NOT to its B/R skills.
Another thing worthy of note is that there are no rules for re-programmign a robot... but common sense dictactes that you have to pick a Prime Directive when actually designing hte robotic pilot... and that tthe end user cannot just reprogram the prime directive... .So unless you have a robotics facility on hand, you will probably have a hard time finding a robot designed to murder people.
hahnsoo
Apr 29 2005, 05:08 PM
*shrugs* It's probably a custom Autosoft chip. Who says that Autosofts are limited to Sharpshooter and those other "combat-oriented" chips? It would make more sense for MCT (or pick your favorite megacorp, MCT just happens to be the best out of the AAA corporations in drone programming) to develop chips that are commercially viable in a civilian market. This would include things like a B/R Autosoft.
Ancient History
Apr 29 2005, 05:12 PM
QUOTE |
In R3, the rules are very specific about Autosoft interpreters not reading activesoft chips {only knowsofts and autosofts}. But in SSG, the Mr. Fix-It has a [b/r] chip included with its autosoft system. |
Both activesofts and autosofts allow access to skills. The point is: you can't rip out the autosoft and jack it into your chipjack, nor shove your activesoft into the drone.
QUOTE |
One such problem, is that a PC with a computers activesoft slotted is more than capable of using that chip to perform programming. |
Once you get into computer skill and coding, you turn to SK's and the Cross QuickCoder program.
QUOTE |
The thought then dawned on me that because the Mr. Fix-it brand bots are so cheap... you could get a bunch of them together, and pump out programs at no cost whatsover. The programs would even pay for the maintenince of the drones.... |
You've re-discovered the automated factory. However, people are typically cheaper, can deal with situations beyond normal programming, are renewable, and can seldom be hacked by malicious deckers, AIs, etc.
Sheffield
Apr 29 2005, 05:14 PM
My confusion only gets worse.
According to R3, the adaptation pool can only be used when fulfilling the prime directive, but this says nothing about what base skills the robot possesses that it can apply the pool dice to. I mean, given the directive "protect humans" or "protect your owner," the bot can theoretically apply its pool to everything from lifting to firefighting to biotech to defusing a nuclear weapon to diagnosing an obscure strain of Asian bird influenza. Are we to assume then that the bot can perform any skill at its pilot level, but only apply pool dice in certain cases? This seems way too powerful.
In a lot of ways, it's just easier and more fair to allow autosoft systems to run activesofts. This way a robot isn't an ultimate jack-of-all-trades because a level 3 bot (about the upper limit for starting characters to design), will only be able to run 2 level 3 (or 3 level 2) skills.
EDIT:
AH:
"Both activesofts and autosofts allow access to skills. The point is: you can't rip out the autosoft and jack it into your chipjack, nor shove your activesoft into the drone."
This makes sense to me, that the two systems would not be compatible. But because R3 spells out the specific varities of autosofts available, I'd assumed that activesofts were not available in autosoft forms. That is, you could only get autosofts in the types presented in R3 and could not buy a "Remington 990" autosoft. Though the Mr. Fix-It coming with an active skill labeled as an "autosoft" and the fact that autosofts and activesofts cost the same supports your read.
Edward
Apr 29 2005, 05:17 PM
i would suggest this compromise.
A drone can not use activsofts however any active skill a drone is physically capable of performing can conceivably be written as an auto soft.
A drone may use its pilot for its mechanical arm operation skill and there should be a commonly available auto soft to improve it (at least as common as sharpshooter).
Adoption pool is amply useful being applied to tests for comprehension, dodge, gunnery, manuvering, and any number of other things
Edward
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 05:18 PM
The robot gets no skills other than those that pertain to controling its own body (like its vehicle skill, mechanical arms, etc). It cannot use its pilot rating in place of "knowledge: brain surgery" and attempt to operate on your character.

However, with an autosoft modification, and hte proper chips, you could allow your robot to perform just about any skill you want, if you have the money to back it up.
As for the prime directives, the GM is the ultimate authority on what is too broad for a Prime Directive (or what jsut isn't allowed, available)... generally, whoever produces robots, does so for some purpose, and that purpose isn't likely to be somethign that requires an autosoft interpreter that the robot doesnt' possess (yet).
GrinderTheTroll
Apr 29 2005, 05:25 PM
QUOTE (BlackHat) |
You're right, SHarpshooter affects gunnery, not shotgun skill,. so giving a GM mr fixit a shotgun would needa shotgun autosoft... but as far as I can tell, its allowed. In our game, we are allowing them, but it has raised some other questions.
|
I might be mistaken, but from what I remeber reading about Vehicles in SR, once you control a weapon from a vehicle you would use Gunnery in place of the appropriate weapon skill. So robotic (or remote) controlled shotguns, SMGs, Assault Rilfels, etc., would all use Gunnery and not a specialized skill as per "PC controlled" weapons would.
It's funny how this seems to circumvent the penalties for not using a specialized weapon skill by simple changing how you interface the weapon. /boggle.
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 05:29 PM
The FAQ on the SR site has an example of someone putting a gun in the hands of a vehicle with mechanical arms, and it says you use the normal gun skill to operate it, limited by your successes on a Mechanical Arms test.
Sheffield
Apr 29 2005, 05:37 PM
Is that for a rigger driving a drone with mechanical arms or a robotic-pilot shooting a gun?
Because if the FAQ says you need the gun skill, it means either that:
A) Vehicles controlled by a robotic-pilot rather than a rigger cannot fire guns with their mechanical arms because they don't have access to the proper skill (or they have to default to their pilot rating).
B) R3 is badly phrased regarding autosofts and should be understood to mean that active skills can be coded into autosofts (as seen with the Mr. Fix-It and S&R drone), but that activesofts cannot simply be plugged into autosoft ports (or vice versa).
BlackHat
Apr 29 2005, 05:45 PM
The rule applies for both.
Probably, if you instructed a drone without a pistol's autosoft to "shoot your pistol at the enemy" it would get confused and probably fail. If you GM was kind, he might even let your drone default if you succeeded in a high TN comprehension test.
Generally, when designing drones for doing repairs, the instructions available to the drone would not include how it should use its arms to end someone's life - espeically using a strange tool it has no idea how to operate.
Assuming the GM is willing to allow you to pick u pa pistols autosoft, you could get one and it could use that as its pistols skill, since it how has access to programming that will instruct it how to "shoot the enemy".
Nikoli
Apr 29 2005, 08:23 PM
Drone pilor rating is also for firing weapons.
Also, any weapon bolted semi-permanently (tacked on with a kit, but not a pintle) uses gunnery, not the specific weapon skill.
Deamon_Knight
Apr 30 2005, 03:12 AM
So, If your bot is holding a shotgun, there is confusion; But a spot wield the Shotgun to the Bots arm and everything is cool?
Cain
Apr 30 2005, 04:38 AM
Well, that and a conversion kit applied.
At any event, there's absolutely no reason why the autosofts listed in R3 are the only ones availiable. I'd just use the standard program cost tables to figure out how expensive they are.
Nikoli
Apr 30 2005, 06:23 AM
I didn't say the rule made sense, but when a weapon is mounted on a vehicle, it simplifies a few things I would imagine. as most things that change from pointing a pistol to pointing a rifle go out the window.
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