GrinderTheTroll
Mar 28 2006, 11:17 PM
Hi all,
I was just reading the Matrix section about AR and VR and all the differences between them. SR4 (sorry no page reference) says while in Cybercombat in AR use your non-matrix initiative, in VR(cold) use your matrix initiative and add +1 IP and in VR(hot) use matrix initiative +1 and add +2 IP. I realized that fighting in the matrix would be best done in VR since IC/Agents act at digital speed (+2 IP, etc) while you move at meatbody speeds.
This got me thinking, could a hacker use Wired 2 (or some other method) to boost their non-matrix iniative up to get +2 or +3 IP while still only in AR mode? You'd forfit the other benefits (or hazzards) of VR but could obviously fight like a champ while on the move and not all noodly.
Please, your comments are welcome!
Thanks,
~GTT
Jeremymia
Mar 28 2006, 11:41 PM
Seems that way, and why not? Imagine a man with extremely fast fingers typing at a keyboard. There is a theoretical speed that he types that matches someone who is full VR.
The real crime is that someone with wired 3 will be more effective in AR than VR.
Jaid
Mar 28 2006, 11:47 PM
except for the other full VR modifiers.
which can make a pretty hefty difference.
The Horror
Mar 29 2006, 05:24 AM
I have issues with a wired hacker being almost as effective as a hot sim hacker (he doesn't get the +2 hot sim dice, but can't get fried by Black IC either).
To handle that I houseruled that a character can only use 1 IP per combat turn to manipulate the matrix via AR. Cold sim allows 2 IP per combat turn, hot sim 3 IP. The wired hacker is still great as he can do other actions whilst hacking with AR (ie fire a gun, run for cover, etc).
Rooks
Mar 29 2006, 06:13 AM
but at a -6 penalty no?
Dranem
Mar 29 2006, 10:50 AM
Considering any hacking is still mostly mental gymnastics, I wouldn't give any bonuses for a hacker with wired reflexes. Hacking uses your logic attribute, not your agility or reaction, so it is not a physical task and can not benefit from reflex enhancements.
nick012000
Mar 29 2006, 11:03 AM
By RAW, yes, they do.
If you're smart, though, you'll be playing a Hacking Adept, rather than a Wired Reflexes sammie. That way, you'll get Improved Ability bonus dice to your hacking skills, and 4 IPs when you start out.
MaxHunter
Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM
But using Improved Ability to enhance matrix skills is so cheesy...
Yeah, it's allowed in the BBB, but you don't have to like it.
In my games I GMfiated it out of existance due to personal distaste.
Cheers,
Max
Azralon
Mar 29 2006, 05:03 PM
QUOTE (The Horror) |
I have issues with a wired hacker being almost as effective as a hot sim hacker (he doesn't get the +2 hot sim dice, but can't get fried by Black IC either). |
There's also the fact that the "probing the system" technique of hacking takes hours in VR and days in AR.
hobgoblin
Mar 29 2006, 09:17 PM
who probes? real men brute force
Azralon
Mar 29 2006, 09:33 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
real men brute force |
Sure, but some hackers are elves.
hobgoblin
Mar 29 2006, 09:37 PM
darn imortal daisy eaters!
you could have a probe set in years, and a firewall in the tripple digits and they would still get in (alltho the chance of a glitch, never mind a critical glitch, makes things interesting)
Teulisch
Mar 29 2006, 09:54 PM
i dont see any reason to try to force the new rules to mimic the old rules. under old rules, cyberdecks were incredibly comples machines, and now we have these simple commlinks.
wired reflex are good for a LOT of things. and they are expensive to get. if someone sinks the resources into the cyber, it should work as per the rules. cold and hot sim provide a simple way for non-cybered characters to be effective hackers. you just face higher risk when you run with less augmentation.
really, you have a choice of moving at meat speeds (which can get you up to 4 actions a round), or at digital speed (which can get you 3 actions per turn, and extra dice, but is higher risk). AR will be the only option in many situations, now that the standard is for the hacker to go in physicaly with the rest of the team, instead of staying safe at home where only the black IC and trace programs can get him killed. do we really want to force someone to use hot sim in the middle of a gunfight, with bullets, gernades, magic, and spirits all put your meatbody in mortal danger? a smart hacker will have wired reflexes.
Azathfeld
Mar 29 2006, 09:56 PM
QUOTE (The Horror) |
I have issues with a wired hacker being almost as effective as a hot sim hacker (he doesn't get the +2 hot sim dice, but can't get fried by Black IC either).
To handle that I houseruled that a character can only use 1 IP per combat turn to manipulate the matrix via AR. Cold sim allows 2 IP per combat turn, hot sim 3 IP. The wired hacker is still great as he can do other actions whilst hacking with AR (ie fire a gun, run for cover, etc). |
I don't have any issues with a hacker who wants to invest the extra nuyen and essence into being a phenomenal AR hacker. It's all about opportunity costs, here. Honestly, Black IC isn't terribly dangerous to begin with, so you're not saving yourself much. DVs on Blackout and Black Hammer are, at worst, 6, and agents don't get to have all of the bonuses available that meatbody attackers do (specializations, smartlinks, etc.).
GrinderTheTroll
Mar 29 2006, 10:03 PM
QUOTE (Teulisch) |
i dont see any reason to try to force the new rules to mimic the old rules. under old rules, cyberdecks were incredibly comples machines, and now we have these simple commlinks.
wired reflex are good for a LOT of things. and they are expensive to get. if someone sinks the resources into the cyber, it should work as per the rules. cold and hot sim provide a simple way for non-cybered characters to be effective hackers. you just face higher risk when you run with less augmentation.
really, you have a choice of moving at meat speeds (which can get you up to 4 actions a round), or at digital speed (which can get you 3 actions per turn, and extra dice, but is higher risk). AR will be the only option in many situations, now that the standard is for the hacker to go in physicaly with the rest of the team, instead of staying safe at home where only the black IC and trace programs can get him killed. do we really want to force someone to use hot sim in the middle of a gunfight, with bullets, gernades, magic, and spirits all put your meatbody in mortal danger? a smart hacker will have wired reflexes. |
Which is what I am feeling.
I feel good roleplaying with a GM who understands what's at stake helps make the best of the whole scenario.
Also makes for a nice HTR Decker.
mdynna
Mar 29 2006, 10:31 PM
I still think there's an excellent case to up the Interval for Hacking on-the-fly through AR. I don't care how Wired you are, if you are using physical movements to manipulate your Commlink you will never be faster than someone using "pure" mental commands. And no, AR mode always uses some "physical" commands, it can never be "purely" mental.
If you make the AR interval = 1 Combat Round (and assuming that Hacking is not an "exclusive" action) then that is the same as the houserule of "1 Matrix action per round".
GrinderTheTroll
Mar 30 2006, 12:23 AM
QUOTE (mdynna) |
I still think there's an excellent case to up the Interval for Hacking on-the-fly through AR. I don't care how Wired you are, if you are using physical movements to manipulate your Commlink you will never be faster than someone using "pure" mental commands. And no, AR mode always uses some "physical" commands, it can never be "purely" mental.
If you make the AR interval = 1 Combat Round (and assuming that Hacking is not an "exclusive" action) then that is the same as the houserule of "1 Matrix action per round". |
Hence the +2 dice pool to all Matrix tests, which is huge compared to AR only.
I mean getting to act 3 times in a Combat Turn to Matrix goings-on doesn't leave you much to do with the real-world anyways aside from not get shot, which is what you do in full-VR anyways.
Aside from not loosing extra IP when shifting from VR->AR, the pros and cons seem to balance out for the most part.
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