As you can probably guess, I'd like to build a drone rigger. For Shadowrun 3rd. I'd like to be a dwarf, but I don't really have a preference, and I am using the karma BeCKs system (in which I get 425 karma and build from there. It is detailed in the shadowrun supplemental, right here under the heading The Shadowrun Supplemental: BeCKS v2.) for character generation.
The problem, however, is that I have little knowledge on shadowrun 3e (or 4e) at all. What attributes do riggers use? What skills, other than piloting cars and bikes and Gunnery? Other than the hefty Vehicle Control Rig (essence wise, especially), what else do I need on the cyber/bioware front? Do I need Synaptic Boosters for more initiative passes? Cerebral Boosters for more intelligence? Should I be worried about having a full suite of visual boosters (i.e. Low Light Vision, Ultrasound, etc.)
Most importantly: How do I decide what vehicles to use? How about drones? Would I be better with a mixture?
(As for books, I have access to the Core Book, Man and Machine, Cannon Compendium and Rigger 3, assuming I can borrow the last 3. However, NSCRG has a lot of books in its database, so...)
Full Version: Building a Drone Rigger [SR3]
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Oct 30 2009, 06:48 PM) 
What attributes do riggers use?
Reaction (that is the average of Quickness and Intelligence in SR3) and Willpower when fighting other riggers for control. Body is always important to suffer damage, as for any character.
QUOTE
What skills, other than piloting cars and bikes and Gunnery?
Most important: electronics, especially the electronic warfare speciality. Some buil & repair skills might also come in handy. You can flavor it with some social skills or forgery to play a smuggler, but this is a matter of taste.
Do not buy all the possible vehicle skills, specialize in 1 or 2. The VCR makes defaulting on the attribute easier for vehicle skills, and your Reaction will be so huge that you will be better off defaulting than using a poor skill. Yes, it is a bug in the system.
QUOTE
Other than the hefty Vehicle Control Rig (essence wise, especially), what else do I need on the cyber/bioware front? Do I need Synaptic Boosters for more initiative passes?
That is useless when rigging. If you want a cheap increase to your physical Initiative, better get a rank 1 reflex booster, but you don't have to.
QUOTE
Cerebral Boosters for more intelligence?
That is worth it, but you'd better check with your GM that he allows bioware at character creation. In the M&M errata, it was stated that bioware should be considered as betaware cyberware.
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Should I be worried about having a full suite of visual boosters (i.e. Low Light Vision, Ultrasound, etc.)
In SR3, natural vision is better than cyber, so it turns out that your dwarf thermographic vision is always at least as good as a cyber low light. Ultrasound might be worth it. However, as a rigger, you don't need it: you will be using your drones sensors more often than your own eyes.
So, I've started building a character. It starts off as...
Dwarf, Attributes of
B5 (4+1)
Q6
S4 (2+2)
C5
I6
W5 (4+1)
(this gives me an init. of 12.
These can obviously be lowered, but I don't see why, since there isn't anything else to spend it on. Active Skills look like:
Gunnery 6 (Activesoft Electronics 6)
Car, Pistols 5
Whips, Bike 4 (Activesofts Computers, Stealth 4)
Car B/R, Vector Thrust Aircraft, Biotech, Negotiation 3
Etiquette, Bike B/R 2
Knowledge Skills and Language Skills I'm not gonna list, unless you really want them.
For Cyberware I have:
Image Link, Low Light and Ultrasound as retinal additions. (About .72 Essence)
a VCR rank 2. (2.40 Essence)
A Datajack, and a Knowsoft Link. (.24 Essence)
250 MP of memory, and a Skillwire system. (Max Rank 6, Max Size 108 MP.) (Together, 1.86 Essence.)
This leaves me with something like .8 essence. I'm looking for ways to raise that, but the VCR rig is so much...
Is the skillwire system worth it, or should I just bite the bullet and take electronics as an actual skill? (I could... maybe... squeeze in 4 ranks.)
Still need to decide what drones to use, along with vehicles. I'm thinking a bike, at least one car, and like 12 drones. (By the way, my driving with the rig, defaulting is Reaction of 10.)
Dwarf, Attributes of
B5 (4+1)
Q6
S4 (2+2)
C5
I6
W5 (4+1)
(this gives me an init. of 12.
These can obviously be lowered, but I don't see why, since there isn't anything else to spend it on. Active Skills look like:
Gunnery 6 (Activesoft Electronics 6)
Car, Pistols 5
Whips, Bike 4 (Activesofts Computers, Stealth 4)
Car B/R, Vector Thrust Aircraft, Biotech, Negotiation 3
Etiquette, Bike B/R 2
Knowledge Skills and Language Skills I'm not gonna list, unless you really want them.
For Cyberware I have:
Image Link, Low Light and Ultrasound as retinal additions. (About .72 Essence)
a VCR rank 2. (2.40 Essence)
A Datajack, and a Knowsoft Link. (.24 Essence)
250 MP of memory, and a Skillwire system. (Max Rank 6, Max Size 108 MP.) (Together, 1.86 Essence.)
This leaves me with something like .8 essence. I'm looking for ways to raise that, but the VCR rig is so much...
Is the skillwire system worth it, or should I just bite the bullet and take electronics as an actual skill? (I could... maybe... squeeze in 4 ranks.)
Still need to decide what drones to use, along with vehicles. I'm thinking a bike, at least one car, and like 12 drones. (By the way, my driving with the rig, defaulting is Reaction of 10.)
The first thing you need to know is that there are no Drone Riggers. There are only Riggers, some subset of which own a Remote-Control Deck and some drones.
The second thing you need to know is that Riggers overwhelmingly run off of Intelligence, with Quickness and Willpower being the second tier. Strength and Body are dump stats, while Charisma is useful for the social skills to get new stuff and smack down spirits that Materialize inside your van. Dwarf is a reasonable choice, though it gives you a lot of stats you really don't need.
If you're going for a multifunctional character, the vision modifications might help. If you're going for a primarily dedicated Rigger, drop the eyemods—if you're doing anything important and it isn't going through a drone or vehicle's sensors, something's badly wrong.
You want to buy Bonus Attribute Point: Intelligence. Cerebral Boosters are a matter of whether you have the cash, and don't need to be taken at chargen.
I think the skillwires are a waste of your time, but again, that depends on how dedicated you want to be.
I'm a fan of the VCR-3, but I don't have a good enough feel for what BeCKS would make you give up to get it.
Why Bike? Also, you're lacking Rotorcraft, which I generally consider a necessity, but that's your affair.
Anyway, that's what comes to mind at the moment. I think you're looking at too much of a massive army of drones, but I'll leave that discussion for a bit later.
~J
The second thing you need to know is that Riggers overwhelmingly run off of Intelligence, with Quickness and Willpower being the second tier. Strength and Body are dump stats, while Charisma is useful for the social skills to get new stuff and smack down spirits that Materialize inside your van. Dwarf is a reasonable choice, though it gives you a lot of stats you really don't need.
If you're going for a multifunctional character, the vision modifications might help. If you're going for a primarily dedicated Rigger, drop the eyemods—if you're doing anything important and it isn't going through a drone or vehicle's sensors, something's badly wrong.
You want to buy Bonus Attribute Point: Intelligence. Cerebral Boosters are a matter of whether you have the cash, and don't need to be taken at chargen.
I think the skillwires are a waste of your time, but again, that depends on how dedicated you want to be.
I'm a fan of the VCR-3, but I don't have a good enough feel for what BeCKS would make you give up to get it.
Why Bike? Also, you're lacking Rotorcraft, which I generally consider a necessity, but that's your affair.
Anyway, that's what comes to mind at the moment. I think you're looking at too much of a massive army of drones, but I'll leave that discussion for a bit later.
~J
If you think I'm looking at too many drones, I probably am. I've never even seen a rigger be done before, much less seen one get played. (I've only played one character so far, and in our runs, the most complex character, from a rules standpoint, was my hermetic mage.) 12 drones just sounded like a nice number.
I am looking for a character who leaves the van, unless drones make it so that I can still be present for roleplay. (with a video screen or something?) Skillwires seemed like a good idea, since I could just buy an activesoft for say... Rotorcraft, then I'd be flying them. Easy. I don't know if they are worth it, however. Do they apply when rigged?
Alternately, could I have something like a 4e commlink so I could still be present for most roleplay, without being there in person? I don't know.
BeCKS doesn't make you give up anything, actually. it's just that a VCR costs what, 300000 and 5 essence. Assuming alphaware (4 Essence) it costs 600000 instead. That alone is 100 Karma. (out of 425) Admittedly, I set my resources for 120 Karma (1 000 000 nuyen) when I started, as I knew rigging would be expensive, but 60% of my starting funds in one piece of cyberware...
a VCR 2 gives 2/3rds the benefit at 1/5th the price, not counting the 1.6 essence saved. (Both of these are assumed to be alphaware.)
As an aside, I've changed the character. Attributes now look like:
B 5
Q 6
S 3
C 4
I 6
W 6
Recall, this is a dwarf, so strength of 3 is the lowest it can be.
Surprisingly, this set-up ends up saving me points, compared to the one I was using earlier. (Not many though.)
Active Skills now look like this:
Gunnery 6
Car, Electronic Warfare 5
Pistols, Whips 4
Electronics (other than Warfare), Negotiation, Rotor Aircraft, Car B/R 3
Bike, VTA, Etiquette 2
And, I still have 7 karma. Woo. (For information, skills cost 1 point to be raised to 1, 4 to be raised to 2, 8 for 3, 14 for 4, 21 for 5 and 30 for 6.)
I still have 120 points tied into resources, which is the maximum. For qualities/flaws, I have Incompetent (Instruction), Amnesia lvl 1 and Raised Max (INT).
For Cyberware, I would like to keep the eye mods. However:
VCR 3. 4 Essence, 600000 nuyen. 400000 left for vehicles. I could throw the eye mods in, for something like 2.46 Essence remaining and about 394800 nuyen left.
Alternately:
VCR 2 and Eyes: Image Link, Low Light, Ultrasound. is something like 2.96 Essence left and costs 150200 Nuyen.
Ultimately, I only had skillwires as a replacement for an electronics skill. Now that I've incorporated it, I don't need to worry about dropping those, so...
Is a Datajack still needed? I'm not sure.
I still want to know what kinds of drones I want, as a general, 'don't leave home without 'em' type of set up.
I am looking for a character who leaves the van, unless drones make it so that I can still be present for roleplay. (with a video screen or something?) Skillwires seemed like a good idea, since I could just buy an activesoft for say... Rotorcraft, then I'd be flying them. Easy. I don't know if they are worth it, however. Do they apply when rigged?
Alternately, could I have something like a 4e commlink so I could still be present for most roleplay, without being there in person? I don't know.
BeCKS doesn't make you give up anything, actually. it's just that a VCR costs what, 300000 and 5 essence. Assuming alphaware (4 Essence) it costs 600000 instead. That alone is 100 Karma. (out of 425) Admittedly, I set my resources for 120 Karma (1 000 000 nuyen) when I started, as I knew rigging would be expensive, but 60% of my starting funds in one piece of cyberware...
a VCR 2 gives 2/3rds the benefit at 1/5th the price, not counting the 1.6 essence saved. (Both of these are assumed to be alphaware.)
As an aside, I've changed the character. Attributes now look like:
B 5
Q 6
S 3
C 4
I 6
W 6
Recall, this is a dwarf, so strength of 3 is the lowest it can be.
Surprisingly, this set-up ends up saving me points, compared to the one I was using earlier. (Not many though.)
Active Skills now look like this:
Gunnery 6
Car, Electronic Warfare 5
Pistols, Whips 4
Electronics (other than Warfare), Negotiation, Rotor Aircraft, Car B/R 3
Bike, VTA, Etiquette 2
And, I still have 7 karma. Woo. (For information, skills cost 1 point to be raised to 1, 4 to be raised to 2, 8 for 3, 14 for 4, 21 for 5 and 30 for 6.)
I still have 120 points tied into resources, which is the maximum. For qualities/flaws, I have Incompetent (Instruction), Amnesia lvl 1 and Raised Max (INT).
For Cyberware, I would like to keep the eye mods. However:
VCR 3. 4 Essence, 600000 nuyen. 400000 left for vehicles. I could throw the eye mods in, for something like 2.46 Essence remaining and about 394800 nuyen left.
Alternately:
VCR 2 and Eyes: Image Link, Low Light, Ultrasound. is something like 2.96 Essence left and costs 150200 Nuyen.
Ultimately, I only had skillwires as a replacement for an electronics skill. Now that I've incorporated it, I don't need to worry about dropping those, so...
Is a Datajack still needed? I'm not sure.
I still want to know what kinds of drones I want, as a general, 'don't leave home without 'em' type of set up.
In case you think an example of a Rigger might be useful, here's mine; she's over 200 karma in, but the basic design principles should be visible and I might be able to dig up or reconstruct the original character soon.
Some of these drones are custom (by "custom" I of course mean "built according to the R3R rules and representing a mass-produced vehicle in the gameworld"); I can post full stats with cost if you want. My basic formula is: big armored van for the team, bunch of Strato-9s for just about everything (they're awesome, seriously), a few tiny drones for spying (I've got the Spider under repair because it essentially became a major character and the Kimji which is a little less subtle but more mobile as a rotodrone) and some blimps for surveillance work. Just be careful not to trigger Sniper Drone Wars.
Edit: my attempt at recreating the character at chargen (she was point-build, so high skills/stats will be more prevalent than BeCKS will let you pull off):
Also, as you might be able to see from my charsheet, I'm not a fan of going Alphaware on the VCR at chargen—it's just too expensive, and a Rigger doesn't need a lot of other 'ware. Don't try to save Essence just because it's Essence, either—saving it is for the mages.
Edit: you may notice that Exceptional Attribute and Extra Attribute Point swapped around—the GM allowed me to swap them because he interpreted Muscle Toners as not helping Rigging, thus making this order suboptimal.
~J
[ Spoiler ]
Some of these drones are custom (by "custom" I of course mean "built according to the R3R rules and representing a mass-produced vehicle in the gameworld"); I can post full stats with cost if you want. My basic formula is: big armored van for the team, bunch of Strato-9s for just about everything (they're awesome, seriously), a few tiny drones for spying (I've got the Spider under repair because it essentially became a major character and the Kimji which is a little less subtle but more mobile as a rotodrone) and some blimps for surveillance work. Just be careful not to trigger Sniper Drone Wars.
Edit: my attempt at recreating the character at chargen (she was point-build, so high skills/stats will be more prevalent than BeCKS will let you pull off):
[ Spoiler ]
Also, as you might be able to see from my charsheet, I'm not a fan of going Alphaware on the VCR at chargen—it's just too expensive, and a Rigger doesn't need a lot of other 'ware. Don't try to save Essence just because it's Essence, either—saving it is for the mages.
Edit: you may notice that Exceptional Attribute and Extra Attribute Point swapped around—the GM allowed me to swap them because he interpreted Muscle Toners as not helping Rigging, thus making this order suboptimal.
~J
I'll see where the VCR 3 gets me. Usually I play mages (because no one else at our table does) so even playing street sams I try to save essence. (not that thats bad.) Usually its just the difference between 40000 for bioware vs. 15000 for cyberware, but bioware is half the essence, so I go with that. But here, its 300000 (normal) vs. 120000 (Alpha), and more than half the essence.
I'll go with a VCR3, an Image Link, a Smartlink 2 and a microscopic vision, I have .36 Essence.
Still looking at vehicles, but I'll work on it. The Ares Roadmaster looks awesome. Blimp Drones sound awesome. Strato-9s will be looked into. Why would I be worried about getting into sniping wars?
I'll go with a VCR3, an Image Link, a Smartlink 2 and a microscopic vision, I have .36 Essence.
Still looking at vehicles, but I'll work on it. The Ares Roadmaster looks awesome. Blimp Drones sound awesome. Strato-9s will be looked into. Why would I be worried about getting into sniping wars?
Basically because it's one of the places where Shadowrun simply breaks when you push. Sniper drones make complete sense but lead to situations where combats mostly consist of 14S delivered with Surprise, which just isn't any kind of fun.
~J
~J
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 30 2009, 06:44 PM)
Basically because it's one of the places where Shadowrun simply breaks when you push. Sniper drones make complete sense but lead to situations where combats mostly consist of 14S delivered with Surprise, which just isn't any kind of fun.
~J
~J
That sounds awesome if I ever want to reduce my GM to tears. However, I don't.
So, or vehicles, I have an Ares Roadmaster pretty much copied from yours. I can't find drive-by-wire or Power Amplifier, however.
Drones:
3 Strato-9s, which seem like they just threw a bunch of random stuff on an awesome chassis. Bad for fighting anywhere accept outside. (1/20)
2 Mini-Blimps. I would love to put a gun on these. A shitload of flying guns attached to blimps... appeals to me. But they-re too slow, I think. I guess 75m/s isn't too bad, but it takes them 15 combat rounds to get there. (4/28)
1 Anachroid. The fact that it is spider sized makes it slightly better than the blimps inside buildings. (Don't even think about it. 0/0)
1 Steel Lynx. It seems useful to have a more direct... drone. (3/225)
1 Toyota Mk-Guyver. Heavy walker. (5/1025)
What would you recommend for outfitting these? For reference, the load and cargo limits are in brackets after their lines. Not including the Drive By Wire and the Power Amplifier, I have 218000 nuyen left.
Drive-By-Wire is Rigger 3 page 129, Power Amplifiers are page 146. Never really used NSRCG, so I can't help you find it there.
Need sleep now, more in the morning.
~J
Need sleep now, more in the morning.
~J
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Oct 31 2009, 05:50 AM)
That sounds awesome if I ever want to reduce my GM to tears. However, I don't.
Nope. Whatever you can use, he can use too, and better than you.
Do you know who manufactures the Strato-9? Lone Star. They have them deployed all over Seattle. If you get your 3 drones out on LS turf, they will have 30 pitted against you in the next 5 minutes.
Don't forget to buy a remote control deck: you need it to control your drones. With good Encryption, Decryption and ECCM, it is expensive too.
QUOTE (Traul @ Oct 31 2009, 09:13 AM)
Nope. Whatever you can use, he can use too, and better than you.
Yes. Most GMs don't have fun in a campaign where everyone dies instantly and unexpectedly either, even if it's the players doing the dying.
Which is really my point. In a game where Sniper Drones are used as much as they logically should be, you're either hidden or dead. Staying hidden at all times is difficult to make into a fun campaign, so the only good choice is to say "we don't do that for some unspecified reason".
QUOTE
Do you know who manufactures the Strato-9? Lone Star. They have them deployed all over Seattle. If you get your 3 drones out on LS turf, they will have 30 pitted against you in the next 5 minutes.
Assuming they get identified as foreign. Anyway, it's certainly true that you don't want to be expecting to win any wars, but that's just basic Shadowrun—show up at the precinct with your assault rifle and things won't be much different (except they'll show up faster, because by canon Lone Star has figured out teleportation. No, seriously, look at the canon response times—they show up in single-digit numbers of rounds.).
QUOTE
Don't forget to buy a remote control deck: you need it to control your drones. With good Encryption, Decryption and ECCM, it is expensive too.
ECCM isn't critical and decryption is probably a waste of money. Drone network encryption is so good that R3 and beyond is essentially invulnerable (strictly speaking R5 is where it really gets hardcore, but R3 is still impractical to actually crack).
~J
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Oct 30 2009, 11:50 PM)
3 Strato-9s, which seem like they just threw a bunch of random stuff on an awesome chassis. Bad for fighting anywhere accept outside. (1/20)
That's more or less the story. Heavily armed and beautiful Sensors, they're just great all around. Only real problem is that they don't mount any armor, so without a Rigger in them giving Dodge they've got no survivability.
QUOTE
2 Mini-Blimps. I would love to put a gun on these. A shitload of flying guns attached to blimps... appeals to me. But they-re too slow, I think. I guess 75m/s isn't too bad, but it takes them 15 combat rounds to get there. (4/28)
Only if you do base Accel every round; if you jump in and make an Accel test the TN should be 2 or thereabouts even with the default, and you'll be expecting somewhere around eight or nine successes which'll get you +40 or +45 m/R. Also keep in mind that the blimps will go as the crow flies, which especially in in-city runs where you aren't on the highway will mean that they should have no trouble keeping up with something that has to move as the wolf runs.
QUOTE
1 Steel Lynx. It seems useful to have a more direct... drone. (3/225)
I don't generally use them due to the fiddliness of having to insert and extract ground drones, but they're your standard-issue heavy crawler, a good choice if you're going to go into that area.
QUOTE
1 Toyota Mk-Guyver. Heavy walker. (5/1025)
Interesting. I'd missed this one; it's a bit expensive to get speculatively, but if you're careful with it I could definitely see doing interesting things with a Demolitions-capable mechanical-arm-wielding Walker. Remember, I think there are rules somewhere for adding cyberware to mechanical arms, so you could toss in some spurs for extra effect.
QUOTE
What would you recommend for outfitting these? For reference, the load and cargo limits are in brackets after their lines. Not including the Drive By Wire and the Power Amplifier, I have 218000 nuyen left.
I like slapping a Spotlight and an Infrared Spotlight on everything within reach, since they're cheap and useful (especially IR, since humans don't have IR vision while drones get it with something like Sensor 2). Remember encryption.
Other than that, IMO there's really two classes of drones: one is the sort that you can armor up, like a team van or something. If you can make it very survivable, you can go wild on customizations. The other, probably the more common type, is the sort that you want to be able to walk away from—the workhorse drones that will need to be allowed to risk getting shot down or captured. For those, you want to minimize cost, which means going very close to stock with them most of the time—maybe swap out weapons for something else or add some cheap customizations like the spotlights, but mostly just use them the way you got them.
~J
The mini-blimps are gonna have micro remote anti aircraft turrets. They'll probably have sniper rifles on them. I'll still have like 2.8 slots on them though...
Alterantely, I could throw a hardpoint (and thus, a bigger gun) onto one, but do I really need to?
The anachroid is fine. Of course, with a cargo and load of 0, I wouldn't be doing much... Is it possible to mount a video camera to it or something?
The Strato-9s are pretty much fine as is. In your experience, are the MMGs good enough, or should I grab a different gun?
The Steel Lynx I might just drop. It seems much easier to just leave it be, and the next drone 'll just blow it out of the water, when it gets into gear. However, it can still mount two micro turrets, so...
Now, the Big one. The toyota MK-Guyver Rescue Drone. 5 Cargo/ 1025 Load. 2 Body means a single hardpoint or two firmpoints. A single hardpoint gives me a remote mini turret, which I'll put a minigun onto after I get out of char. creation. (the availability is 16.)
For now, I think the robotic 10 strength arms will be helpful enough as is. Adding in the skillsoft link 'll help a bit with things.
I was thinking about buying a Jackrabbit. the Methane version is fast, and basically turns into my piloted drone. with 3 body, it can fit a pretty big pop-up remote turret, if need be.
Lastly, I was thinking a BMW 2050 Blitzen for a last vehicle. I'll see how it all fits into a price tag, but I'm pretty pleased with the choices.
Alterantely, I could throw a hardpoint (and thus, a bigger gun) onto one, but do I really need to?
The anachroid is fine. Of course, with a cargo and load of 0, I wouldn't be doing much... Is it possible to mount a video camera to it or something?
The Strato-9s are pretty much fine as is. In your experience, are the MMGs good enough, or should I grab a different gun?
The Steel Lynx I might just drop. It seems much easier to just leave it be, and the next drone 'll just blow it out of the water, when it gets into gear. However, it can still mount two micro turrets, so...
Now, the Big one. The toyota MK-Guyver Rescue Drone. 5 Cargo/ 1025 Load. 2 Body means a single hardpoint or two firmpoints. A single hardpoint gives me a remote mini turret, which I'll put a minigun onto after I get out of char. creation. (the availability is 16.)
For now, I think the robotic 10 strength arms will be helpful enough as is. Adding in the skillsoft link 'll help a bit with things.
I was thinking about buying a Jackrabbit. the Methane version is fast, and basically turns into my piloted drone. with 3 body, it can fit a pretty big pop-up remote turret, if need be.
Lastly, I was thinking a BMW 2050 Blitzen for a last vehicle. I'll see how it all fits into a price tag, but I'm pretty pleased with the choices.
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Oct 31 2009, 04:11 PM)
The anachroid is fine. Of course, with a cargo and load of 0, I wouldn't be doing much...
Spotlights!
No, I'm serious. Spotlights require neither Cargo nor Load, and since the Arachnoid only has Sensors 1 it can come in very handy. Of course, you want to avoid attracting attention to it, but it's so cheap that even marginal use cases become worth pursuing.
Remember, IR Spotlights curiously assist Low-Light as well, and Sensors 1 includes Low-Light.
QUOTE
The Strato-9s are pretty much fine as is. In your experience, are the MMGs good enough, or should I grab a stronger, slower shooting gun?
What would you sub in? You'll notice that I put a grenade launcher in one of mine for versatility, but I think an MMG is a solid choice for the Strato; "stronger, slower shooting" is pretty much the Assault Cannons, and while an HMG would in principle be better, it's a lot of investment for just one more point of basic Power. There's also the fact that you'd have to get it all after chargen, assuming you're following the usual Availability rules.
Remember, the half-recoil thing happens after recoil compensation is applied; that Gas-Vent III means that you're firing six-round bursts before any recoil starts happening.
You'll want to put Smartlink Adaptation into them if you're taking a Smartlink, but that's cheap.
QUOTE
Now, the Big one. The toyota MK-Guyver Rescue Drone. 5 Cargo/ 1025 Load. 2 Body means a single hardpoint or two firmpoints. A single hardpoint gives me a remote mini turret, which I'll put a minigun onto after I get out of char. creation. (the availability is 16.)
Miniguns, unfortunately, really suck—vehicles can make them work, but you'd probably be better off going with either an LMG (which has the same awful base Power as the minigun, but is available at chargen) or the superior Power of the MMG/HMG.
Remember, for something like this you don't necessarily need a turret; walkers are mobile enough that turning to face where they want to fire isn't as much of a burden as it is with a bunch of wheels.
~J
Actually, I was about to come edit my post and just wait for an HMG on the walker. However, I didn't think about saving money on the non-mobile version, but I suppose that as a walker it's easier to just turn around than swivel the turret.
I was planning on putting Smartlinks in every single drone with a gun, since they're just so useful. Do I actually need to have a smartlink on my character to get the benefit, or is it fine if it is only in the drones?
What would you recommend for the two vehicles? The standard car (for easier blending than the heavy truck) and the bike?
I was planning on putting Smartlinks in every single drone with a gun, since they're just so useful. Do I actually need to have a smartlink on my character to get the benefit, or is it fine if it is only in the drones?
What would you recommend for the two vehicles? The standard car (for easier blending than the heavy truck) and the bike?
Your character does need a smartlink system, but does not need the induction pad.
I've only ever rigged a bike once and that was one I found in an Ares facility so I don't know what it was, but when I've made non-Riggers with bikes I've generally used a Suzuki Aurora for its low handling and high top speed. The Hyundai Offroader is another choice that looks ok, skimming around; it has higher Signature, so if you're expecting enemy Riggers that might be good, but despite the name they're both equal in on- and off-road Handling and the Aurora is significantly faster. I'm not an expert in this area, though.
For a regular car, I always found it difficult to pack in enough stuff; if you're ok with it only seating two, the G.P. COP is probably your call, with its relatively generous Cargo and Load and a high Signature (for a car). Otherwise the Americar has the advantage of being cheap and common, while the Toyota Elite has better seating, more range, and an awesome autopilot. They all need some serious Sensors work, though.
Edit:
The Blitzen looks ok as well, and the Handling difference shouldn't matter for a Rigger. I'm not so sure about the Jackrabbit, though; with only 1 CF available, it'll just barely fit a Level 1 Sensor system. Still, for a way to carry teammates around, you could maybe do worse.
~J
I've only ever rigged a bike once and that was one I found in an Ares facility so I don't know what it was, but when I've made non-Riggers with bikes I've generally used a Suzuki Aurora for its low handling and high top speed. The Hyundai Offroader is another choice that looks ok, skimming around; it has higher Signature, so if you're expecting enemy Riggers that might be good, but despite the name they're both equal in on- and off-road Handling and the Aurora is significantly faster. I'm not an expert in this area, though.
For a regular car, I always found it difficult to pack in enough stuff; if you're ok with it only seating two, the G.P. COP is probably your call, with its relatively generous Cargo and Load and a high Signature (for a car). Otherwise the Americar has the advantage of being cheap and common, while the Toyota Elite has better seating, more range, and an awesome autopilot. They all need some serious Sensors work, though.
Edit:
The Blitzen looks ok as well, and the Handling difference shouldn't matter for a Rigger. I'm not so sure about the Jackrabbit, though; with only 1 CF available, it'll just barely fit a Level 1 Sensor system. Still, for a way to carry teammates around, you could maybe do worse.
~J
The jackrabbit is just a transport. It's the most common car on the market. No one will think twice about one driving down the street. The toyota elite is nicer, but costs triple the amount, and turns more heads. The fact that a jackrabbit can fit a hardpoint is just gravy. (that hardpoint 'll have a MMG on it after char. creation, I think.)
The Aurora looks better than the Blitzen for sure. Add some Turbocharger and some other performance enhancers...
I've found out I have a rediculous amount of money, since my GM just told me that I wasn't allowed a VCR3, since he wants it to be more availability than it is. (since the VCR2 is 8 as well.)
So, what do you think about the Ford-Canada Bison? It seems like a good base for a mobile base, and I could probably swing into actually living in it.
Lastly, is it possible to strip the inside of a DocWagon? That'd be a good way to get a team out, assuming it was RC.
Unfortunately, having lots of money appears to mean having more drones. sadface.
The Aurora looks better than the Blitzen for sure. Add some Turbocharger and some other performance enhancers...
I've found out I have a rediculous amount of money, since my GM just told me that I wasn't allowed a VCR3, since he wants it to be more availability than it is. (since the VCR2 is 8 as well.)
So, what do you think about the Ford-Canada Bison? It seems like a good base for a mobile base, and I could probably swing into actually living in it.
Lastly, is it possible to strip the inside of a DocWagon? That'd be a good way to get a team out, assuming it was RC.
Unfortunately, having lots of money appears to mean having more drones. sadface.
Actually, the Jackrabbit is pretty much out; I'd forgotten this, but Rigger Adaptation takes 1 CF as well, meaning you're into invading passenger space if you want to do this.
Hm. Well, I guess there are worse things you could do than invade passenger space, but anyway, it must be stressed that even the basics will stretch the Jackrabbit to its limit.
More in the morning.
~J
Hm. Well, I guess there are worse things you could do than invade passenger space, but anyway, it must be stressed that even the basics will stretch the Jackrabbit to its limit.
More in the morning.
~J
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Oct 31 2009, 08:08 PM)
Unfortunately, having lots of money appears to mean having more drones. sadface.
There is nothing wrong with having more drones...
Keep the Faith
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Nov 1 2009, 03:08 AM)
So, what do you think about the Ford-Canada Bison? It seems like a good base for a mobile base, and I could probably swing into actually living in it.
It is great, probably the best ground vehicle ever. Its only drawback is that you cannot ruthenium it into a delivery van.
Apparently I can't sleep until I answer this.
It is great, probably the best ground vehicle ever. Its only drawback is that you cannot ruthenium it into a delivery van.
It does look pretty nice, though I still prefer the Citymaster (but Generic_PC's already looking at that); its major flaw is a high base cost, so adding Drive-By-Wire will break you. That said, it needs it less than some other traditional Riggermobiles, and it has more balance than my Riggermobile (acceptable on-road and off-road as opposed to amazing on-road and bad off-road).
It does need another point of concealed armor, whatever you do with it. 5 is the sweet spot.
Buy a Citymaster and paint it?
Some vehicles I've made using the R3R rules (some may be R3, but I don't think any errata applies):
Ares Boomer
Aztechnology Incinerator
Vector Kimji
CATCo Lanceur Drone Deployment Vehicle
Sikorsky-Bell Overseer
Saeder-Krupp Schattenauge
Knight Errant Shield/Lone Star Autonomous Riot Control Barrier
Stormbringer (Civilian)
Ares Enforcer Tactical Command Vehicle
Man, I barely remember some of these.
~J
QUOTE (Traul @ Oct 31 2009, 11:48 PM)
QUOTE (Generic_PC @ Oct 31 2009, 10:08 PM)
So, what do you think about the Ford-Canada Bison? It seems like a good base for a mobile base, and I could probably swing into actually living in it.
It is great, probably the best ground vehicle ever. Its only drawback is that you cannot ruthenium it into a delivery van.
It does look pretty nice, though I still prefer the Citymaster (but Generic_PC's already looking at that); its major flaw is a high base cost, so adding Drive-By-Wire will break you. That said, it needs it less than some other traditional Riggermobiles, and it has more balance than my Riggermobile (acceptable on-road and off-road as opposed to amazing on-road and bad off-road).
It does need another point of concealed armor, whatever you do with it. 5 is the sweet spot.
QUOTE
Lastly, is it possible to strip the inside of a DocWagon? That'd be a good way to get a team out, assuming it was RC.
Buy a Citymaster and paint it?
QUOTE
Unfortunately, having lots of money appears to mean having more drones. sadface.
Some vehicles I've made using the R3R rules (some may be R3, but I don't think any errata applies):
Ares Boomer
[ Spoiler ]
Aztechnology Incinerator
[ Spoiler ]
Vector Kimji
[ Spoiler ]
CATCo Lanceur Drone Deployment Vehicle
[ Spoiler ]
Sikorsky-Bell Overseer
[ Spoiler ]
Saeder-Krupp Schattenauge
[ Spoiler ]
Knight Errant Shield/Lone Star Autonomous Riot Control Barrier
[ Spoiler ]
Stormbringer (Civilian)
[ Spoiler ]
Ares Enforcer Tactical Command Vehicle
[ Spoiler ]
Man, I barely remember some of these.
~J
Wow... Nice list of Drones there...
Keep the Faith
Keep the Faith
Looks like I'm going with the Ares Roadmaster. the Ford-Canada is just hellishly expensive, adding up to 234900 
It'll be my pipe dream. Drive-by-wire 3 adds another 283205 , by itself. Ouch.
The Ares Roadmaster, fully decked out (at least, to my newbie standards) comes out to 219090 Still pretty ouch, but that includes DBW3.
Mods, and (their price) is listed. Comments? Additions? Surprisingly, I'm actually in danger of running out of money...
DBW3(1.25x1.25x1.25x45000, or 87890)
Sensors 5 (15000)
Remote Control Interface (12500)
-L5 Encryption (25000)
Concealed Armour 5 (10000)
Drone Rack (7000)
Morphing License Plate (5000)
Dwarf Mod (4500)
Rigger Adaptation (2800)
Runflat Dual-purpose tires (2800, or 700*4)
Electronics Port (1000) (RCD)
Infared Spotlight (600)
I have most of the same things ona Suzuki Aurora, along with 2 minor additions. This adds to 131025
Turbocharger L2 (3620)
Motorbike Gyro Stabilization Gear (22625)
My drones (the two blimps, the 3 strato-9s and a mini anachroid) and my RCDL6, with Encryption5, with all additions, come in at 400875
The total, then, is 750990, slightly under my budget (read, limit) of 821800
This means that of my 1000000 , 70810 of it is usable for things other than vehicles, drones and cyberware.
It'll be my pipe dream. Drive-by-wire 3 adds another 283205 , by itself. Ouch.The Ares Roadmaster, fully decked out (at least, to my newbie standards) comes out to 219090
Still pretty ouch, but that includes DBW3.Mods, and (their price) is listed. Comments? Additions? Surprisingly, I'm actually in danger of running out of money...
DBW3(1.25x1.25x1.25x45000, or 87890)
Sensors 5 (15000)
Remote Control Interface (12500)
-L5 Encryption (25000)
Concealed Armour 5 (10000)
Drone Rack (7000)
Morphing License Plate (5000)
Dwarf Mod (4500)
Rigger Adaptation (2800)
Runflat Dual-purpose tires (2800, or 700*4)
Electronics Port (1000) (RCD)
Infared Spotlight (600)
I have most of the same things ona Suzuki Aurora, along with 2 minor additions. This adds to 131025
Turbocharger L2 (3620)
Motorbike Gyro Stabilization Gear (22625)
My drones (the two blimps, the 3 strato-9s and a mini anachroid) and my RCDL6, with Encryption5, with all additions, come in at 400875
The total, then, is 750990, slightly under my budget (read, limit) of 821800
This means that of my 1000000
, 70810 of it is usable for things other than vehicles, drones and cyberware.
It's stuff like that that makes me wish we could build Drones and Vehicles from scratch in SR4. Those are quite inventive.
QUOTE (Marwynn @ Nov 3 2009, 12:00 AM)
It's stuff like that that makes me wish we could build Drones and Vehicles from scratch in SR4. Those are quite inventive.
I'm sure SR4 has something similar to the rigger 3 book that would have design and customization in it.
Arsenal has some simple customization rules. Essentially filling in modification slots. But nothing quite like building a drone with a Shield in it and so on.
Hmm. I'm surprised they haven't produced a 'vehicle' handbook. I guess they just decided that Arsenal covered it all?
You could probably ask your GM if you could ad-lib some rules based on the 3e ones... That'd be a bit of work for you though.
You could probably ask your GM if you could ad-lib some rules based on the 3e ones... That'd be a bit of work for you though.
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