You still get the essence discount. Just because you require deltaware doesn't mean that deltaware offers less of an advantage. Cost is 10x and essence is half, just like for everyone else.

The reason it has to be deltaware is because deltaware is the only ware that is totally custom made for the individual (thus the low essence cost) and thus the only ware that would be available in the right size/shape for non metas.

I know we all know this, but no one voiced it: we were talking about Pixie hackers, who never need to be there physically; neither do Pixie mages. So, yes, the flying invisible stat-bugs do have ways of avoiding their physical weakness. No, they're not invulnerable; they don't need to be, to be overpowered and underpriced.

Type O System helps. At least for Bioware.

Also, the rules state the implants have to be Delta grade, but I don't see anywhere that they don't get the essence cost reduction benefit of Delta grade implants.




-karma

I don't think it would be possible for a sapient critter to have a type O system. Nothing in the rules against it, but I just don't think it would be possible. The very idea of requiring delta for bioware in the first place is that their bodies are so radically different from the human norm (type O), that they can't actually accept type O systems. That would seem to indicate that having a type O system would be utterly alien to a pixie (like having a frog that has a snake's body... just doesn't make any kind of sense)

I wouldn't think anything but metahumans could take Type-O system, no?

And Karoline is faster on the draw

Yep, pixies are a munchkingasm, no more no less.

Y'all should have been there during the first pass at the rules, where if a sapient critter hit 0 Magic they died.

That would have been a bad thing? ;P

I actually like that idea. Pixies seem to be just as inherently magical as dragons. It seems like most of their metabolic processes should be magical, not just flight and invisibility. Plus, the disappearing on death thing indicates that there is, quite literally, magic holding their body together.

Maybe make a rule that for sapient critters Essence = Magic?

Yeah, I think they should die, too. In the case of Background Count that would reduce them to 0, they suffer some major penalty and take damage over time; escape fast!

Wouldn't Windlings start with a 1 essence then?

Or did you want Pixies to start with a 6 magic for free?

Make them the only race that can buy essence with karma.
all stats are derivates of essence. 2nd point of essence kosts 22 karma, 3 point costs 33 karma, fourth point costs 44 karma and so on.

They already get sick in bad BG and null areas, iirc, and they certainly can't fly, which completely gimps their movement.
Since you can't resuscitate a pixie, I think its already quite bad enough with their low bod stats, and you guys know hackers and magi can't always stay behind on a mission. Heck -most- the missions I've been on required them to be on site for anything with decent sec.

well +1 edge would fit in with them actually being Windlings
Actually +2 edge would be more appropriate.

But they dont actually get +1 to edge they have an max edge of 7,big difference.

OK, I'm about to go into the "How the Rich Eat" thread here...

"Deep Fried Pixies", a Ork Delicacy.

I don't wanna hear about your 'Windling' madness. Shadowrun is Shadowrun.

And a higher maximum is a big deal, and it's what +1 means for Edge.

Well, usually a +1 means an increase in minimum as well, and thus a free point A higher max is nice, but expensive to reach if it doesn't have a corresponding increased min.

You mean deep fired air they die just an empty case left.

The idea was for pixies to start with 1 Essence unless they spend BP to purchase extra magic. Also allow them to purchase more magic even if not magicians/adepts.

They can already do that.
That's my favorite kind of air.

Better than the "Extra-Chunky" air that you get when you step outside.

But the whole game is based on the idea that everyone has a 6 essence.

I think that's something of an exaggeration. Besides, pixies aren't metahumans; where a dwarf could be fully Essenced-up but about as magical as an asteroid, I think it's not extraordinary to demand that some of the more magical paracritters - like pixies - have their "lifeyness" be linked to their extent of magical ability and connection. It would also help mechanically underscore their non-humanity.

Iii don't think so. They already die too easy, this just makes it ridiculous.

I'd be okay with it if Pixies only had a magic score.
Ie: they only had to buy their magic, not their essence.

Their essence = magic score - cyber.
Although if I had my way, cyber would have double essence cost for anyone who had the magic attribute.

That's an amazingly powerful dwarf if YotC is anything to go by

Add a little powdered sugar and you get funnel cake FTW!

Actually, I think you'd have some recursion there.

0) Start with magic 6, no cyber. Essence 6.
1) Buy a cyber-hand (0.25 or so essence I think)
2) Essence drops to 5.75 (magic 6 - cyber 0.25)
3) Magic drops to 5 because of essence.
4) Essence drops to 4.75 because of your calculation. (magic 5 - cyber 0.25)
5) Magic drops to 4 because of essence.
...
12) Essence drops to 0.75 because of your calculation.
13) Burnout. Magic drops to 0 because of essence.
14) Pixie disappears in a puff of logic.

While I'm a fan of that, wouldn't it just be .5 essence and it would still drop the point, thereby being done with it?

I edited my post to clarify it a bit. I also removed the normal essence cost of the implant entirely, to demonstrate how sabs's formula for essence being based on magic wouldn't work at all. (Unless the goal is to have them immediately reduced to 0 magic when they get 1 piece of 'ware, which could be explained much more simply and much more clearly.)

Ehhhh. It could be clarified better (the rule, not the recursion). IIRC, you don't have to buy Essence, only magic anyway for a pixie, aye?

I think he just wants to directly tie Magic to Essence (in that if a Pixie has 1 Magic, he has 1 Essence, so buying up his Magic buys up said Essence).

Which may mean he could have an initiated pixie with an Essence of 10. Which could also mean you have a pixie made entirely of titanium.

ROBOPIXIE.

Which really makes no sense, if the goal is to just kill them at Magic 0. Watch how I do this: "Pixies die if their magic is reduced to 0."

Personally, I'd still give them time to escape a Background Count, in dramatic fashion.

Wings all replaced with rotors because its the only way it can get enough lift for flight. Instead of disappearing in a puff when it dies it just falls apart and looks like an action figure with the O-rings taken out.

I dunno. I like the thought of a swarm of fleeing pixies hitting the BC limit at the Yucatan, or at Los Alamos and flaring into incandescense, like an industrial-sized bug zapper. How cool would that be?

SO cool. Perhaps a just a temporary resistance roll, then.

That was the intent.
Perhaps have their essence cap at 6
I just think it's overly mean to make someone pay for essence with Karma AND their Magic attribute.
Noone else has to do that.

Eh, this still doesn't exactly fix the problem. You can still have a Robopixie simply through initiation, and his Essence will still be at six. It supplants the barriers to overloading cyber/bioware inherent in the system.

I find it to be the cost of doing business as a pixie. With the bonuses they get, they shouldn't be stocking themselves up with 'ware anyway. The gross majority of pixies will never afford that kind of gear.

Yeah but it makes mana static insane. My magic one mage can kill your swarm of pixes. With one spell and poof bye bye pixies.

I still don't see why you want to make them even more fragile- the reason the things are fast lucky and smart is to make up for the fact that they can be squished handily otherwise.

And this is different from SR3 in which way?

Because to be effective at either decking OR rigging you had to give essence away.
A good chunk, if you wanted to be above standard . . AND it was expensive too.
Both of those clashed horribly with magic under point buy.
Under priority you could be a Troll-Adept with 1 Million Nuyen.

I fail to see your point, sorry. Every edition allowed for a combination of magic and cyber/tech in general, but as was said before, such builds won't be far from effective.

There's an errata for mana static.

I don't think it can be argued that SR3 didn't have bigger tradeoffs between magic and cyber, esp. rigger/decker.

DUAL POST SORRY

You can make a better hacker/rigger by being an mystic adept

Improved Skill Rating 3: Hacking
Improved Skill Rating 3: Cybercombat

Improved Initiative spell, Combat sense spell
sustaining foci

trodes
commlink
hot sim
commlinkaccelerator

If you're willing you can give up a point of essence to pick up
PuSheD (I don't have my book, it's the genetic enhancement that +1 to logic linked tests)
encephalon I (not 2, too expensive)

And you can get a "hacker" with:
Hacking+exploit pool: 16+vr+hotsim+2(cyber) easily
4 meat/AR IP passes
5 VR IP passes

And you can spend karma to get more spells, initiate, get more powers, and you spend money for better programs/etc.

You get a technology spirit and you can control drones by having the spirit possess them.

Mages (with cyber) make better everything.

does the magically enhanced skill really work under full VR?
also, get another 3 levels of improved ability and put it into spellcasting or conjouring, if you wanna be really cheesy . .

There is nothing in the RAW that says that it doesn't. And it's actually one of the examples for improved ability technical skills.

Magic I think is fairly balanced agaisnt Cyber/Bio these days.
The problem is Magic+cyber/bio
You can make some really obscene characters. Because losing 1 or 2 points of essence isn't really that big of a deal in the long run, compared to the bonuses.

Mages with Platelet factories and Trauma Dampeners, the really cheap genetic enhancements.
Now that you have trodes, and the like so you can have full VR without any implants, it's actually fairly easy to make a better tech character than a tech character.

A friend of mine made a Rigger with very minimal cyber/bio who was a better 'driver', and was deadly dangerous in combat.
Make an agility gun bunny mage. Just add a pilot skill.
He had perception tests in the 15 dicepool range, and driving tests in the same range.
with 4 IP's, combat sense.