Full Version: The Seattle Chainsaw Massacre
Ok so I have this PC who decides to make a troll who happens to use a chainsaw. alright thats cool, wait whats this? A chainsaw goes off Str, leatherface has a 14str umm chainsaw is str+2S + Troll str14 = 14dice doing 16s. Is this right, can this be true. I know I can houserule this or come up with a skill like gas powered melee weapons. I just want to know If the errata is right and If anyone else on this board has had the privelage of dealing with such monstosities.
I don't have a book infront of me but it seems reasonable.
He's a Troll. With a chainsaw. The damage would be serious (no pun intended).
Just wait until your boy realizes he can Dikote™ the saw teeth.
He's a Troll. With a chainsaw. The damage would be serious (no pun intended).
Just wait until your boy realizes he can Dikote™ the saw teeth.
do you have any idea how far away a chainsaw can be heard? not to mention it's melee only...
Wouldn't chain saw use a skill? Wouldn't it either be edged weapons (Page 11 on the Canon Companion) or a specialized weapon skill? So his attack roll would be limited to what he spends on the skill (So if it is a strength based skill possiblely what? 14 or so? Which are deficiencies elsewhere right?) and then yes damage could , which is on page 11 of the Canon Companion, could be 16S or so.
Of course who would eb stupid enough to let a Troll with a chainsaw even start it, or near them if it was started. (Not like their quiet or anything.)
Of course who would eb stupid enough to let a Troll with a chainsaw even start it, or near them if it was started. (Not like their quiet or anything.)
Not exaclty something one can use when stealth is needed. And let's not even discuss the mess, but otherwise: it could be worse. I've seen bone laced and muscle replaced tolls, or dikoted dual spurs. Nasty and much more... portable.
Yes, he's a troll, with a troll sized chainsaw. That's some pretty dangerous stuff. Why waste your time, and piss off the player by houseruling anything? He's going to be dangerous with that thing only in melee, and close quarters. It's also a pretty poor weapon to use when you need to keep things stealthy.
One long corridor, and a handful of guards with heavy weapons is going to completly ruin his day.
One long corridor, and a handful of guards with heavy weapons is going to completly ruin his day.
Have they mentioned dikote yet? I wouldn't be too worried about this though. Short of throwing the thing at opponents, it's still a melee weapon. Just remember the old quote about bringing a knife to a gunfight. Whilst trollo is charging the security guards they're racking the slides of their shotguns and blowing his kneecaps off.
Or worse machine guns or anthropods with chainsaws of their own.
I think there is a "Chainsaw" skill in CC. Don't quote me on that.
For some reason, I see "Scarface" coming up if he captures any NPC's.
For some reason, I see "Scarface" coming up if he captures any NPC's.
| QUOTE (FrostyNSO) |
| I think there is a "Chainsaw" skill in CC. Don't quote me on that. For some reason, I see "Scarface" coming up if he captures any NPC's. |
Do you mean "Leatherface"?
Scarface used a chainsaw once in the movie.
| QUOTE (Sandoval Smith) |
| One long corridor, and a handful of guards with heavy weapons is going to completly ruin his day. |
a nicely mangled line from some movie:
only trolls bring a chainsaw to a gunfight
The thought the chainsaw got used on Scarface's friend. Like, right in the beginning.
His friend and him. They didn't finish with him.
Crap. I forgot about that scene. Stupid meat brain.
| QUOTE (kevyn668) |
| Crap. I forgot about that scene. Stupid meat brain. |
Yeah dude, it's time you went digital.
I'm just waiting for the technology.
My inferior brain aside, go with what everyone else said. A troll with a chainsaw is pretty damn cool idea. Let him run with it. Hopefully the player will have enough sense to take the Shotgun skill and pack a sawed off Defiance.
Whatever you do, don't lay the smack down on him. He'll just come back with a stronger/more munchie verision.
Oh, and welcome to the 'Shock.
Whatever you do, don't lay the smack down on him. He'll just come back with a stronger/more munchie verision.
Oh, and welcome to the 'Shock.
I see his problem. He thinks Leatherface will get to roll 14 dice as a chainsaw skill.
CC, here's the thing. While using a chainsaw defaults to Strength, he doesn't get to use his strength as a skill without suffering significant penalties (+4 TN). He'd have to buy the Edged Weapons skill, which caps off at 6 for a starting character (7 if he specializes). That's not really that bad, considering.
Hope that helps!
CC, here's the thing. While using a chainsaw defaults to Strength, he doesn't get to use his strength as a skill without suffering significant penalties (+4 TN). He'd have to buy the Edged Weapons skill, which caps off at 6 for a starting character (7 if he specializes). That's not really that bad, considering.
Hope that helps!
Cain: No, he needs the Chainsaw skill, which is mentioned in CC.
In response to kevyn's shotgun remark... He needs to remember to randomly spout things like "This here... Is my BOOMSTICK!" and "Come get some."
In response to kevyn's shotgun remark... He needs to remember to randomly spout things like "This here... Is my BOOMSTICK!" and "Come get some."
Chainsaw weapons use the chainsaw skill. Defaulting to strength is possible, giving that evil 14 dice to attack (+4 for defaulting, -2 for reach, +2 total). 1 opponent without reach, TN 6, 14 dice. ouch. I'd still get the skill if I were mr. Chainsaw-happy Troll. 6 Dice + Combat pool at a target number of 2 against 1 opponent without reach. Hell, even multiple opponents are gonna get shredded. Dikoting's even worse...
I Like it!
I Like it!
| QUOTE |
| Cain: No, he needs the Chainsaw skill, which is mentioned in CC. |
Oops. Well, point still stands. Leatherface isn't going to be rolling 14 dice without that +4 penalty unless he's an adept with extra tricks.
And of course, if that troll had two dikoted cyber spurs, as well as Cyberimplant Combat 6 and Offhand Cyber Impact Combat 6, he'd be throwing 9 dice before combat pool and deal out 22S, so I don't see the problem with a chainsaw.
JaronK
JaronK
| QUOTE (tanka) |
| Cain: No, he needs the Chainsaw skill, which is mentioned in CC. In response to kevyn's shotgun remark... He needs to remember to randomly spout things like "This here... Is my BOOMSTICK!" and "Come get some." |
I can't believe I didn't think of that myself. Shame on me.
Maybe I'm the odd duck out, but I think a troll with a chainsaw is an incredibly stupid idea... especially if the chainsaw is the troll's main weapon. Let's think about this for a moment.
Sound: This has been discussed. What team is going to want a noisy ass troll with a chainsaw rattling away? Maybe this is a Barrens-exclusive party, but if stealth is required for any of the runs, count the team dead... or at least the troll.
Timing: Chainsaws, as with most pull-start machinery, often don't start on the first pull. I live in the northwest and have seen some "professional" model chainsaws used in lumberjack contests that exhibit this un-feature. Temperature and humidity can affect this startup process. What is Leatherface going to do when he keeps burning turns trying to get his cool weapon started?
Concealability. As in, none. Any LS patrol who runs across a walking mammoth with a chainsaw is going to detain him/her. And unless the troll is going to try and carry the machine under his trenchcoat and claim that he's just happy to see them, I can't imagine that it would be easy (dare I say, possible) to tote said chainsaw around town without drawing all kinds of unwanted attention.
Forget "Geek the Mage". Geek the fraggin' troll waving the chainsaw! Seriously, that player should have a high death probability counter ticking away over his head. If you saw that running at you, would you not center all attention on him/her?
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Sound: This has been discussed. What team is going to want a noisy ass troll with a chainsaw rattling away? Maybe this is a Barrens-exclusive party, but if stealth is required for any of the runs, count the team dead... or at least the troll. Timing: Chainsaws, as with most pull-start machinery, often don't start on the first pull. I live in the northwest and have seen some "professional" model chainsaws used in lumberjack contests that exhibit this un-feature. Temperature and humidity can affect this startup process. What is Leatherface going to do when he keeps burning turns trying to get his cool weapon started? Concealability. As in, none. Any LS patrol who runs across a walking mammoth with a chainsaw is going to detain him/her. And unless the troll is going to try and carry the machine under his trenchcoat and claim that he's just happy to see them, I can't imagine that it would be easy (dare I say, possible) to tote said chainsaw around town without drawing all kinds of unwanted attention. Forget "Geek the Mage". Geek the fraggin' troll waving the chainsaw! Seriously, that player should have a high death probability counter ticking away over his head. If you saw that running at you, would you not center all attention on him/her?dead
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In a ganger style campaign, I can imagine the chainsaw troll being a very effective, very scary piece of muscle.
In that same campaign any sane GM could easily make him an effectively big scary convict real quikly too....
Depends on the campaign. In the gang level campaigns I've been in, you could have a full on exchange of rockets, mortars, and HMG fire, and not hear a peep out of the star. As long as what was going on in the Z zone didn't spill out, they didn't care what went on in there.
They have a pic of a ganger wielding a chainsaw in the main book (and his buddy has a flamethrower). The only trouble comes when you try to take the chainsaw out of the Z zone.
As for stealth, a chainsaw can certainly be stealthy... he doesn't have to turn it on.
"Uh, Bubba? Isn't that a bit, uh, ineffective?"
*Clubber* *Smoosh* "No."
As for stealth, a chainsaw can certainly be stealthy... he doesn't have to turn it on.
"Uh, Bubba? Isn't that a bit, uh, ineffective?"
*Clubber* *Smoosh* "No."
| QUOTE (Crimson Jack) |
| Concealability. As in, none. Any LS patrol who runs across a walking mammoth with a chainsaw is going to detain him/her. And unless the troll is going to try and carry the machine under his trenchcoat and claim that he's just happy to see them, I can't imagine that it would be easy (dare I say, possible) to tote said chainsaw around town without drawing all kinds of unwanted attention. |
he could always dress like a lumberjack...
Just pair him up with a big blue juggarnaut, and no one will suspect a thing.
In all seriousness, get a mage to put a stealth spell on the chainsaw. Ain't noisy now....and somehow a stealthy chainsaw troll just scares the bejeezus outta people.
| QUOTE (Sharaloth) |
| Chainsaw weapons use the chainsaw skill. Defaulting to strength is possible, giving that evil 14 dice to attack (+4 for defaulting, -2 for reach, +2 total). 1 opponent without reach, TN 6, 14 dice. ouch. I'd still get the skill if I were mr. Chainsaw-happy Troll. 6 Dice + Combat pool at a target number of 2 against 1 opponent without reach. Hell, even multiple opponents are gonna get shredded. Dikoting's even worse... |
It's not that scary, really. Yeah, he's slinging 14 dice, and he's got Reach. But he's fighting a fairly hefty +4 for defaulting. Base TN 8, if he's smart he'll only use one point of his reach to make it TN 7 ("the sweet spot"), and the other point to bump his opponent's TN to a 5. So he's tossing 14 dice at TN 7, right? Big whoop. He can't use combat pool to help out, so 14 dice at TN 7 is the best he'll have -- and that's giving him a shade over two successes.
Average security guard with Clubs 2/Shock Baton 4? Tosses in his combat pool (who wouldn't against a maniac with a chainsaw?), uses his weapon's reach of 1 to knock his TN back down to 4, and slings 8 dice at TN 4. Doubles the troll's successes. The Troll roars, charges, swings, misses, gets tased with a prod-stick to the eye, falls down, whimpers, cries, and then it's the security guy's actual action and he sticks the Troll again (or his buddies hop in, and they all have a good old time).
Defaulting in an opposed test like melee combat is quite simply horrible ineffective against anyone with any real skill (someone with a Brawling of 3 and no reach, no devotes their combat pool to it, is still gonna be tying the Troll's average successes). The guy needs to get himself some Chainsaw skill dice if he wants to do anything but look intimidating and characterfull as hell.
And even with the skill he's nothing game-breaking. He's got a high power and a nice damage code, but it's all about the dice. All the roaring and mauling in the world ain't gonna help him against a wierd old chinese guy with a ton of kung fu and some adept bonus dice to toss around, y'know? And the "troll melee guy" schtick can be done a lot nastier than a guy waving around a chainsaw.
Still, thumbs up for the style factor. It wouldn't fit in most games of hardened pro killers and thieves being too cool for words, y'know? But I can definately see it being a scary chunk of metahumanity to run into in the right street-level sort of game. Get him some appropriate skill dice and let him be scary, though, not just cool.
Just remember, the stats in CC are for a stock chainsaw. Do not, under any condition, let the troll's player see this video and start to get ideas.
The damage code isnīt that high. But thereīs the question if strength really should be that vital to the damage of a chainsaw. A troll with str 14 should easily be able to cut a person in half with a sword. That kind of power is beyond humanly possible after all. But a chainsaw is much more cumbersome and it takes itīs time cutting through stuff, I recon. Much faster than any human could accomplish with a sword, but should it be a better choice for the troll really? Either way I wouldnīt bother houseruling this anyway.
I'll just settle for the "predator" from that movie, get that dikoted and you'll be cutting even bone-laced people in half in no time. Scrap the dikote even, with the speed that chainsaw went through that log you wouldn't need to dikote, except to save on maintenance.
The troll would attack using a skill, not his strength, wouldn't he? Otherwise, I'd give him a +4 for defaulting to strength. Something like a "chanisaw" skill. Also, a critical failure with a chainsaw should result in the attack going off against the player (lest he manages to make it in a +4 penalty dodge test) because these things can bounce off whatever you want to cut and move right into your face at an amazing speed if you touch the tree (or person) you want to cut with the tip.
But game-breaking? Naaah. Even if the troll had Chainsaw (Ash-2000 Slasher Plus) at 6(8) as a beginner character, there's a fairly easy way to deal with such characters: The Barret, or even 'just' the Walter 2000, preferrably operated by an initiated physad sniper. If your troll player goes over the edge, make him feel what snipers can do to close-combat fighters.
If you really orry about the troll, though, disallow Dikote, or at least, make the players roll the availability per gram, each separate time. Dikote is just a wee bit powerful indeed, and shouldn't be that freely available.
But game-breaking? Naaah. Even if the troll had Chainsaw (Ash-2000 Slasher Plus) at 6(8) as a beginner character, there's a fairly easy way to deal with such characters: The Barret, or even 'just' the Walter 2000, preferrably operated by an initiated physad sniper. If your troll player goes over the edge, make him feel what snipers can do to close-combat fighters.
If you really orry about the troll, though, disallow Dikote, or at least, make the players roll the availability per gram, each separate time. Dikote is just a wee bit powerful indeed, and shouldn't be that freely available.
I'd thing using a Chainsaw in melee combat would be almost as dangerous to the Troll as the opponent. Chainsaws kick back very easily when they hit something solid, like their oppoenent's titanium bone lacing. The Troll could be in for a very nasty suprise.
There's no need to houserule Chainsaws worse than they are, or to limit dikote on them. They're already screwed against real ranged opposition, and they're not very stealthy or subtle, and they leave a horrible mess. The only good thing about them is the fact that the troll could maim any number of underarmed opponents in melee with it, but so can all close-combat trolls.
Dikoting the chainsaw would only give it +1power, since it uses the chainsaw skill and thus isn't an edged weapon. So the dikoted katana is still on par with the chainsaw.
Dikoting the chainsaw would only give it +1power, since it uses the chainsaw skill and thus isn't an edged weapon. So the dikoted katana is still on par with the chainsaw.
With all the limitations aside, I'd say...cool. For a ganger campaign, it would be just right.
Sure, you're awfully distinctive, but that can also be a good thing, as people get scared. Play your cards right and you could end up being a huge player on the gang scene. Or graduate to the Mafia.
Hell, the Mafia wouldn't even have to use you. They just point to your character ripping apart wooden dummies with wild abandon and say, "You screw up, we send that guy after you."
Sure, you're awfully distinctive, but that can also be a good thing, as people get scared. Play your cards right and you could end up being a huge player on the gang scene. Or graduate to the Mafia.
Hell, the Mafia wouldn't even have to use you. They just point to your character ripping apart wooden dummies with wild abandon and say, "You screw up, we send that guy after you."
Holy crap...a V8 Chainsaw. What the heck would the damage code on THAT thing be? You might be able to cut through titanium bone lacing with THAT, that's for sure.
Only ESPN would be covering that....geez that was hilarious yet disturbing at the same time. A troll would be able to heft that thing, for sure.
[edit] :rofl: I think the V8 Chainsaw is the trollsized version...
Only ESPN would be covering that....geez that was hilarious yet disturbing at the same time. A troll would be able to heft that thing, for sure.
[edit] :rofl: I think the V8 Chainsaw is the trollsized version...
As the GM, I'd keep track of fuel.
Do a little research on modern chainsaws, like run time, etc.
Improve by about 15% to cover modern tech.
Convert the runtime to a point system of some sort.
say 10 "points" per liter, 1.5 liter fuel resevoir being common.
Starting uses 1 point, every full round after the first (all passes, to new initiative) uses 1 point.
On a botch, roll a d6, 1 Blade flies up, resist your own attack with a +4 penalty, 2-3, chain snags and backs up, needs repairs. 4-6, nothing wrong. If he does dikote the chain, make it 2 not 2~3.
Do a little research on modern chainsaws, like run time, etc.
Improve by about 15% to cover modern tech.
Convert the runtime to a point system of some sort.
say 10 "points" per liter, 1.5 liter fuel resevoir being common.
Starting uses 1 point, every full round after the first (all passes, to new initiative) uses 1 point.
On a botch, roll a d6, 1 Blade flies up, resist your own attack with a +4 penalty, 2-3, chain snags and backs up, needs repairs. 4-6, nothing wrong. If he does dikote the chain, make it 2 not 2~3.
I believe CP202X had a cyberarm-implantable retracting chainsaw. The Husqvarna ChainRipp I think. Nothing screams style quite the way that does.
lol, if that doesn't scream Ash, nothing does
Thx for the replies, I was kind of stickershocked when he showed me the character. Now that I have taken some time to think it over, there are plenty of worse weapons he could have chosen, No Dachi and a few others come to mind. But he will deffinitly be getting some bonuses when it comes to his intimidation skill. Not to mention that flesh mask he wears. Can't wait till the johnson meets him for the first time. Thats going to be an awkward silence.
| QUOTE |
| Convert the runtime to a point system of some sort. say 10 "points" per liter, 1.5 liter fuel resevoir being common. Starting uses 1 point, every full round after the first (all passes, to new initiative) uses 1 point. On a botch, roll a d6, 1 Blade flies up, resist your own attack with a +4 penalty, 2-3, chain snags and backs up, needs repairs. 4-6, nothing wrong. If he does dikote the chain, make it 2 not 2~3. |
I think thats a great idea nicoli. But what about starting the chainsaw would that be a complex action?
| QUOTE (Cult Classic) | ||
Thx for the replies, I was kind of stickershocked when he showed me the character. Now that I have taken some time to think it over, there are plenty of worse weapons he could have chosen, No Dachi and a few others come to mind. But he will deffinitly be getting some bonuses when it comes to his intimidation skill. Not to mention that flesh mask he wears. Can't wait till the johnson meets him for the first time. Thats going to be an awkward silence.
I think thats a great idea nicoli. But what about starting the chainsaw would that be a complex action? |
flesh mask? Oh my that IS going to be a fun character.
Starting a chainsaw should be a simple - it's the same as readying a weapon, IMO. Normally it's just a pull...and if you're an experienced user you would know the tweaks to get the thing started up every time, first pull.
Not to mention it's a combat tuned chainsaw, ghost help us, so it's likely that the thing has multiple start avenues, like DNI-controlled ignition, with a redundant pull-start.
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| Not to mention it's a combat tuned chainsaw, ghost help us, so it's likely that the thing has multiple start avenues, like DNI-controlled ignition, with a redundant pull-start. |
Heh heh. The ChainRipp comes standard with a fuel-cell or mini-battery powered motor, starts on DNI signal and is pretty quiet. You can pay extra for a good old-fashioned gas engine and a pull-cord starter.
Say what you will about CP as a playable system, it had mad style.
So that Troll is a lumberjack and he's Ok? He sleeps all day and run all night?
I bet he wears suspenders and a bra, too.
I know that SR made melee weapons cool for the 21st century but a troll charging into combat with a chainsaw has more in common with an episode of the loony tunes than with a cyberpunk game IMO. Next, you'll have players moving around on rocket rollerskate while wielding dynamite sticks as their main weapon.
I bet he wears suspenders and a bra, too.
I know that SR made melee weapons cool for the 21st century but a troll charging into combat with a chainsaw has more in common with an episode of the loony tunes than with a cyberpunk game IMO. Next, you'll have players moving around on rocket rollerskate while wielding dynamite sticks as their main weapon.
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