A friend of mine told me about the latest toy from Smith&Wesson, the model 500.
This baby shots one of the biggest, baddest slug ever for a revolver, as far as i know.
In the box "Model 500 links", there's a link to a picture of some other calibers ammo with some stats.
What the hell is a feet per pound?
Model 500 web page:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/Products/Firea...earms/m500.htm#
In the "Model 500 links" box :
"Click here to view 500 S&W Magnum caliber comparison"
Full Version: Question about real gun stats
| QUOTE (Hobbes) |
| What the hell is a feet per pound? |
Probably a bad typo when the actual unit is "foot-pounds." A unit of work, in this case, the amount of work the lead gets to accomplish.
2600 ftlbs is enough to move a 26 lb object 100 ft, if the energy is perfectly transfered and conserved. A bullet impact is much more likely to displace a portion of the target, bounce, and lose energy to friction than push a 260 lb person 10 feet.
50% more energy than a 44 mag? Yow!
Well, it's still in the same class as the DE .50. Wouldn't want to shoot one, though. I like my wrists just as they are.
Well, it's still in the same class as the DE .50. Wouldn't want to shoot one, though. I like my wrists just as they are.
Did you see the awesome-looking hunter version?
| QUOTE (Ed_209a) |
| 50% more energy than a 44 mag? Yow! Well, it's still in the same class as the DE .50. Wouldn't want to shoot one, though. I like my wrists just as they are. |
Its definitely in the same class, but it'll have a bigger kick. Most .50 AE rounds for the Desert Eagle are around 1500 ftlbs. The 500S&W is touting 2600 ftlbs. That's a 70% increase of muzzle energy for those hurtin' wrists.
| QUOTE (Game2BHappy) |
| Its definitely in the same class, but it'll have a bigger kick. Most .50 AE rounds for the Desert Eagle are around 1500 ftlbs. The 500S&W is touting 2600 ftlbs. That's a 70% increase of muzzle energy for those hurtin' wrists. |
Yeah, my math was all messed up... Don't know where I got 50% from. Lets try 150% more than .44 Mag.
Incidentally, isn't that getting close to energy of full scale rifle ammo? What do you really _need_ that for?
Don't they say there's at least some form of recoil compensation?
The hunting version was ported. SR would call that a RC1, maybe 2. The length of the barrel might count as a barrel weight.
I think a lot of what SR calls recoil is actually muzzle flip. A fully compensated weapon could still be very unpleasant to fire.
I think a lot of what SR calls recoil is actually muzzle flip. A fully compensated weapon could still be very unpleasant to fire.
Both versions are ported, actually. That off-color bit ahead of the front sight on the 500 is a three-port compensator. The 500 Hunter has a larger, multi-port compensator. Not that it really does much, especially on the 500. This thing generates so much recoil that a compensator is more or less there to make you feel better about shooting it.
Other manufacturers are hopping on the .500 Mag bus, namely Freedom Arms, Thompson/Center and Magnum Research (who imports/manufactures the Desert Eagle). I got to play around with the Freedom Arms .500 Mag at a local shop a few weeks ago. All I can say is that I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to spend the money on one of these things. They are so far outside of anything resembling practicality that it's just stupid. It's either an insecurity complex, the need to have the biggest, most powerful insert-name-of-object-here, some form of masochism or maybe all of the above that makes a person buy one of these. Whatever it is, I don't get it. The .500 Mag would be a lot more useful if someone would stuff it in a rifle, like say, Marlin. I'm hoping they do that soon. I might actually consider getting one in that case.
There have been a couple of single-action revolvers out there for a while that could likely compete for this "most powerful" title. Magnum Research makes a revolver chambered for the .450 Marlin cartridge, which was designed for the same rifle I'd like to see chambered for the .500 Mag (Marlin 1895). Gun Tests magazine tested this beast (8" barrel) and lists ballistic of Hornady's .450 Marlin load like this: 350 grain JFP @ 1610 fps = 2014 fpe. Not quite up to the .500 Mag ballistics, but you can handload the .450 Marlin to compete pretty easily.
John Linebaugh is a Wyoming gunsmith who has been making big bore revolvers for years. One of the cartridges he developed, the .500 Maximum, was most certainly the basis for the .500 Mag because the dimensional differences are very, very slight (within .025" of each other in both length and diameter). The hottest load I've seen listed for the .500 Maximum is a 450 grain JSP @ 1383 fps = 1911 fpe. And that's from a 6.5" barrel, 1.5" shorter than S&W's 500. (Here's a Gary Reeder .500 Maximum). Given that the cases are almost identical in size, the .500 Maximum can likely do anything the .500 S&W Mag can with proper handloads, and it probably has been doing those things for years (about 12 of them). I guess it pays to have S&W's marketing and manufacturing capabilities.
I've had stats for the S&W 500 on my site for quite a while if anyone is interested. I am thinking about changing the recoil modifiers to +4, however. It's a beast.
Other manufacturers are hopping on the .500 Mag bus, namely Freedom Arms, Thompson/Center and Magnum Research (who imports/manufactures the Desert Eagle). I got to play around with the Freedom Arms .500 Mag at a local shop a few weeks ago. All I can say is that I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to spend the money on one of these things. They are so far outside of anything resembling practicality that it's just stupid. It's either an insecurity complex, the need to have the biggest, most powerful insert-name-of-object-here, some form of masochism or maybe all of the above that makes a person buy one of these. Whatever it is, I don't get it. The .500 Mag would be a lot more useful if someone would stuff it in a rifle, like say, Marlin. I'm hoping they do that soon. I might actually consider getting one in that case.
There have been a couple of single-action revolvers out there for a while that could likely compete for this "most powerful" title. Magnum Research makes a revolver chambered for the .450 Marlin cartridge, which was designed for the same rifle I'd like to see chambered for the .500 Mag (Marlin 1895). Gun Tests magazine tested this beast (8" barrel) and lists ballistic of Hornady's .450 Marlin load like this: 350 grain JFP @ 1610 fps = 2014 fpe. Not quite up to the .500 Mag ballistics, but you can handload the .450 Marlin to compete pretty easily.
John Linebaugh is a Wyoming gunsmith who has been making big bore revolvers for years. One of the cartridges he developed, the .500 Maximum, was most certainly the basis for the .500 Mag because the dimensional differences are very, very slight (within .025" of each other in both length and diameter). The hottest load I've seen listed for the .500 Maximum is a 450 grain JSP @ 1383 fps = 1911 fpe. And that's from a 6.5" barrel, 1.5" shorter than S&W's 500. (Here's a Gary Reeder .500 Maximum). Given that the cases are almost identical in size, the .500 Maximum can likely do anything the .500 S&W Mag can with proper handloads, and it probably has been doing those things for years (about 12 of them). I guess it pays to have S&W's marketing and manufacturing capabilities.
I've had stats for the S&W 500 on my site for quite a while if anyone is interested. I am thinking about changing the recoil modifiers to +4, however. It's a beast.
So, other than the (other than recoil) compensation issue, who would buy this revolver?
It's obviously over gunning in defense applications, so what would you hunt with this monster? I understand you can humanely bring down stuff up to a few hundred pounds with a .44 mag.
Perhaps there is some idiot who wants to hunt Kodiak with a handgun?
I'll gladly hunt something over double my weight, but not with a handgun.
Seems with hunting big game with a handgun, you reach a point where you can't fire a round powerful enough for a 1-shot shop, and the recoil prevents you from making quick followup shots.
This puts you on the wrong end of the food chain.
It's obviously over gunning in defense applications, so what would you hunt with this monster? I understand you can humanely bring down stuff up to a few hundred pounds with a .44 mag.
Perhaps there is some idiot who wants to hunt Kodiak with a handgun?
I'll gladly hunt something over double my weight, but not with a handgun.
Seems with hunting big game with a handgun, you reach a point where you can't fire a round powerful enough for a 1-shot shop, and the recoil prevents you from making quick followup shots.
This puts you on the wrong end of the food chain.
| QUOTE (Ed_209a) |
| So, other than the (other than recoil) compensation issue, who would buy this revolver? |
people who have (cough cough) personal over-compensation issues to deal with.
This includes, but is not limited to, non-combat mages with Pistols (2).
Come to think of it, S&W should bundle this with a safety helmet for when the barrel hits you in the head after you fire it.
I'd have to say that I wouldn't want to have to deal with the recoil on this gun. My personal IRL preference is a Tokarev 9 mm. I was not happy when it got stolen. Was the sweetest thing in the world for grouping the shots where I wanted them.
Course, I also have a couple other goodies hanging out around here that are good too.
I have a S&W revolver, but that stays in the back of the closet away from the kids when they come over. And I lock my room to keep em from hurting themselves.
NightWind
Course, I also have a couple other goodies hanging out around here that are good too.
I have a S&W revolver, but that stays in the back of the closet away from the kids when they come over. And I lock my room to keep em from hurting themselves.
NightWind
| QUOTE (Ed_209a) |
| So, other than the (other than recoil) compensation issue, who would buy this revolver? |
The only half-way practical applications for a gun like this is hunting big game or defending yourself from the more dangerous type of game. You could seriously take down some very big animals with it, elk, moose, grizzly bear... In places like western Canada/Alaska or Africa it has a certain bit of eligibility as a defense piece, being that it's very powerful, lighter and smaller than most rifles, thus relatively easy to carry around. But personally, I'd rather have a short rifle or a shotgun, something with which I can use more of my body to absorb recoil in order to help a second shot come a bit quicker should it be needed.
The main selling point of this gun, I think, is that it's a status symbol. It's really no different from people buying luxury SUVs like Cadillac Escalades or Hummer H2s. "Look at me! I'm so rich I can afford to buy something that there's almost zero use for, but I'll look cool with it! Wee!" The vast majority of people who buy an S&W 500 are probably going to shoot it once or twice and put it behind glass to show off. Pathetic, really.
However, if you put this thing in the context of Shadowrun, the S&W 500 becomes a bit more useful with all those nasty awakened critters running around an sentient beings like Trolls resorting to crime and all that. The bigger the animal, the bigger the bullet.
Actually, in Shadowrun it has significantly more usefulness. Just toss a Troll behind the trigger and the recoil problems start to melt away like dew in the morning sun.
~J
~J
Oh yeah, certainly it has use in a setting where a thousand pound troll might want to eat your lunch.
But not today, IMO. It's a show-off piece.
But not today, IMO. It's a show-off piece.
What, Ed_209a, you don't have trolls trying to eat your lunch?
Maybe that's just the football team here...
~J
Maybe that's just the football team here...
~J
Bet you win a lot.
I have a friend who is only lacking the tusks for being a textbook orc.
Eh, maybe he's not quite that ugly...
He has the size, mass & build for it, though
I have a friend who is only lacking the tusks for being a textbook orc.
Eh, maybe he's not quite that ugly...
He has the size, mass & build for it, though
My uncle has pointed ears. Maybe he's a spike baby!
~J
~J
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