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weblife
Its written in MiTS, that an elemental secondary effect does not take effect if the spell is Light in damage level.

This confuses me somewhat. And I hope you are ready with answers. smile.gif

1. If I cast Flamethrower at Deadly, but its staged down to Light by the opponent, what kind of secondary effects are there? - Those for Deadly, or those for Light?

2. If I cast Flamethrower at Light, but succeed in staging it up to Deadly, then what happens? Deadly or Ligth secondary effects?

3. If I cast Fireball into a room at Light, and stage successes up to Deadly, how much damage do I deal to the computers, papers etc. in range of the spell?

I hope you'll take a few minutes to write your opinion. biggrin.gif
Aku
i was always under the impression that it was the level at which the spell was cast that determinted of secondary effects could occur... i could be wrong though.
nezumi
I'm with Aku. A spell can be staged down to nothing and still have secondary effects (since, unlike manabolt and the like, the spell is cast even if the target completely resists.) After all, if a flamethrower (the weapon) is dodged or staged down, it still burns stuff.
Mortax
I would concure as well.
ShadowGhost
Base damage the spell is cast at, regardless of successes.

Otherwise it gets really cheesey for secondary effects:

"I cast a 1 Light Fireball"

Rolls dice
"9 successes! - Stage it..... Whee! The whole building explodes, obliterating itself in a glorious fireball of doom!"

And this way, when a mage damn near kills himself with drain casting it at an armored Troll, at 5D (Drain is 7D)... even if the Troll stages damage down to nothing.... his gear and clothing are likely still on fire, along with his surroundings (depending on the 2D6 you roll for secondary effects). Otherwise, if the Troll stages down to nothing, then there'd be no secondary effects.
weblife
However, the immediate effect of a F6, Light Fireball, staged up to F7 Deadly with successes, would also deal considerable damage to anything in the blast, living or otherwise.

Touching off ammo is described as a secondary effect, but what is the Barrier Rating of a grenade or a piece of ammo? - The immediate blast might be able to do the same. Yes?

How about the room the Fireball goes off in, surely it would be set on fire as every single item in the room is hit by F7 Deadly in an instant.

Narrating GM: "The lethal, yet not deadly Fireball kills everyone in the room, yet no colatteral damage occurs, as there are no secondary effects for the spell."

PC: "Uh, what?"
ShadowGhost
And what happens when you have two different characters, a Troll with a body of OMG, and puny elf with a body of one.

The Troll stages down to nothing, while the puny elf takes a Deadly.

What are the secondary effects? Does nothing happen on the Troll's side of the fireball while everything goes up in flames on the Elf's side?

From SR3:
QUOTE
Elemental spells do primary damage determined by the
Damage Code of the spell. They also have secondary effects,
the effects the spell has on the environment.

If, after applying the primary damage of the spell, anyone
is left standing and in some way vulnerable to the secondary
effects, roll 2D6 to determine the effect for any non-living targets.

So secondary effects are based on Damage Code of the spell (i.e. what it was cast at, not staged to).



BTW, only the Damage level of spells go up when staging, not the power level.

Kagetenshi
QUOTE (weblife @ May 20 2005, 06:23 PM)
Touching off ammo is described as a secondary effect, but what is the Barrier Rating of a grenade or a piece of ammo? - The immediate blast might be able to do the same. Yes?

As ShadowGhost alludes to, it's based on Object Resistance rather than Barrier Rating.

~J
fistandantilus4.0
I e-mailed ShadowFAQ on this , it is the base damage level that determines the secondary effect.
RedmondLarry
I find this rule fascinating, because all the papers and computers in the room will be undamaged by Secondary Effects if the spell kills everyone.
QUOTE
If, after applying the primary damage of the spell, anyone
is left standing and in some way vulnerable to the secondary
effects, roll 2D6 to determine the effect for any non-living targets.
ShadowGhost
QUOTE
The result must be greater than or equal to the target’s Object Resistance Rating (p. 182). Add +2 to the Object Resistance if the spell has a base damage of Serious, and +4 if its base damage is Moderate. An elemental spell with a Damage Level of Light does not cause secondary effects. When dealing with secondary effects, the gamemaster will have to be selective and make some judgment calls.


You can be quite inventive as a GM - you can always say the fireball sucked all the oxygen out of the air in the room, suffocating the players.

On the other hand "Spontaneous Human Combustion" says a human can incinerate, without the rest of the room/building going up in flames.
mfb
er, ourteam, re-read. "if, after applying the primary damage of the spell..."

the computers, papers, etcetera are all subject to that primary damage.
weblife
After re-reading the secondary effects, I can see that they have a much wider scope than just damage. Knockdown and visibility etc.

I guess the initial damage can be described as a "flash" effect, doing immediate damage to everything, according to its staged damage level.

The secondary effects are akin to something that "simmers" awhile, lingering the whole round and doing more damage.
Kagetenshi
Not a bad way of thinking about it, though knockdown tends to be pretty immediate and can be recovered from in one action.

~J
RedmondLarry
QUOTE (mfb @ May 21 2005, 08:45 PM)
er, ourteam, re-read. "if, after applying the primary damage of the spell..."

the computers, papers, etcetera are all subject to that primary damage.

Yeah, you're right. But gasoline apparently doesn't ignite till it gets the secondary effect of a Fireball. wink.gif

And a Fireball at Light Damage apparently wouldn't ignite the gasoline at all.
QUOTE (MITS p 52)
Fire
Primary Damage: Fire increases its Damage Level by one level against water elementals and undines.
Secondary Effects: Fire can ignite flammable materials. Highly flammable materials (gasoline, dry wood, paper, explosives and ammunition) add –1 to their Object Resistance.
Mortax
Personally, if one of my players lets off a fire spell in the vicinity of something flammible, (like gas), its prolly gonna go.

Though, gasoline will actually put out a match if immersed. Gasoline VAPOR on the other hand......BOOM! smile.gif
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