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hyzmarca
To avoid embarasing situations at mage pickup bars I'm trying to create a spell that allows the user to determine sexual preferance by sight. Maybe I'm not reading the rules closely enough but I can't seem to find a way to make such a multipurpose spell.

Detect homosexual, detect hetrosexual, and detect bisexual would be usefull, but the karma costs combined with sustaining penalities make three such spells costly. Add in detect asexual and detect various paraphilias and the costs only get higher.

So if I want to hook up with a pair of bisexual elf bondage queens without making an absurdly high etiquite test what am I to do?
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
So if I want to hook up with a  pair of bisexual elf bondage queens without making an absurdly high etiquite test what am I to do?

Control Thoughts.

See if the GM will allow a more general "Detect Sexuality" spell which can do all the things you listed (except the hookup part) but requires multiple successes to be certain.

Potential success chart:
0: can't tell
1: lists current organic sexual components
2: also includes genetic sexuality of at least 51% of the person
3: also references you to the closest individual they have been checking out
4: also provides you with a basic concept of what kind of activities they are looking forward to
5: all of the above, but in simple clear words in your head (example: trisexual gnome masochist)
6 and up: as 5, but the spell also suggests a pickup line (for every valid target, not just the ones you want)

Remember, the spell can be resisted by all targets, and possibly mislead by those with active masking.

[edit]sorry, I just noticed a typo
Garland
That's great, if only because it would make the GM think up pickup lines appropriate to the viable subjects.

Elf male to troll female: "Hey, baby, you know it's not the size, but how you use it."

____ to ork ganger: "Nice gang colors; they'd look great on the floor next to my bed."

____ to night one: "Pardon me, (sir/ma'am). I'm a fur inspector subcontracted by the Seattle City government. You may not know, but regulations require that body fur must cover at least 80% of the body for metahumans possessing it. Would you mind if I had a look?"
Edward
HV is good

Your mage could solve his problem by casting detect sexual interest (my sex) assuming the character is male female heterosexuals, male homosexuals and all bisexuals will be detected buy this spell. He will be unable to determine whether they would be interested in females, nether would he know whether those that donít detect desire females or inorganic companions. It also wont tell him whether he will have his head ripped of for being an elf or for using magic, and weather the target will consider this a pleasurable experience.

Edward
Aku
or maybe just a "Detect Sexual Interest" spell, that would give a colored overlay based on the person's preferences and the shade/intensity show's desire (on enough successes)...

Blue-lookin for males
red/pink--looking for females
purple(being the mixture of blue and red) for bi
The Stainless Steel Rat
I would just use Mind Probe for this. Looking for specific info, modified by environment - typically this would be deep mind interaction, unless the target is aroused for some reason, in which case it would be surface thoughts.
Mortax
Of course, mind probe requires touch, and if you are already touching them......smile.gif
Sorry, had to say it. grinbig.gif

I'd go with HV's sudjestion, if nothing else because it's funny as hell. smile.gif
nick012000
Just find a person you like the looks of, and hit them with a Control Emotions spell. Make 'em sexually attracted to you.
Fresno Bob
You don't even need magic. Just whack 'em with a club and do it Caveman style.
Glyph
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
So if I want to hook up with a pair of bisexual elf bondage queens without making an absurdly high etiquite test what am I to do?

Simply pick up any two elven female characters played by male players - chances are, that's what they'll be.
hermit
QUOTE
Simply pick up any two elven female characters played by male players - chances are, that's what they'll be.

Now, now, don't overly simplify.

Anyway, HV's suggestion is pretty good. I'd cathegorize it as a divination/mind probe hybrid spell, but a mind probe that may well go unnoticed, as it probes the subconscious and not memory or active thoughts.

QUOTE
So if I want to hook up with a  pair of bisexual elf bondage queens without making an absurdly high etiquite test what am I to do?

Jack in, do a search for fetish clubs catering to elves, and try picking them up there. Etiquette is still nescessary, but the test should be much lower.

QUOTE

Simply pick up any two elven female characters played by male players - chances are, that's what they'll be.

Maybe I play with more mature than average gamers, but I cannot second that. Actually, all but two female characters I have seen in recent years have been straight. And of the two gay elves, one was played by a lesbian, so ...
weblife
Actually I think this spell is kinda silly... I'd say its just trolling.

But anyway. You miss an important aspect of detection. Awareness.

Your spell looks into someones head for their sexual preference. Bt what criteria do you use?

- What turns them on?
-- I don't have to go in depth with how twisted most people really are, do I?
-- Having a fantasy is not the same as being willing to go through with it.


- What previous experiences they have in memory?
-- What if they have not realised their "true" calling, so to say?
-- What if external influences have shaped their experiences so far?

My point being, this spell is completely useless in almost any applicable way. Unless you define the reply it sends you, as the specific best visual temptation that target will react on.
hermit
Well, so far, let's assume he is serious about the gaydar spell. Maybe his GM screwed with his char trying to pick someone up at a mage bar?

anyway, for your question, weblife: You can go by [inherent] orientation (not practice or preference). Won't go too much in depth, but will tell you quite reliably what sex anyone, in principle, feels attracted to.

That would NOT detect elf lesbian BDSM enthusiasts, but it would fairly well tell you whether it's boys, girls or both for any given person scanned. HV's spell goes more in depth and is likely a type of mind probe lite, probing the subconscious only, hence reducing TN, since it's harder to resist anyone poking around in yoru subconscious. It should not go unnoticed, though, anyway, now that I think of it.
weblife
QUOTE
You can go by [inherent] orientation


As in genetically disposed towards? eek.gif

Because, dude, thats just not so.

IMO, all you have to scan for is either preference or experience. And yea, it would definately be something the target can resist. If he notices or not might be a factor of whether the mage blunders it.
hermit
QUOTE
Because, dude, thats just not so.

It isn't? Ah, someone who belives in choices ... you know that scientific findings, as well as what virtually anyone will tell you, points to the genetic/otherwise innate possibility, do you?
BitBasher
QUOTE (hermit)
QUOTE
Because, dude, thats just not so.

It isn't? Ah, someone who belives in choices ... you know that scientific findings, as well as what virtually anyone will tell you, points to the genetic/otherwise innate possibility, do you?

Right, if it was exclusively a sentient choice then we wouldn't see roughly the same percentages of homo/heterosexuality in animals as humans. Is is just choice for them too? Doubt it.

Heck, when I was a kid I had a Gay Cocker Spaniel.
weblife
Ok, mind puzzle for you.

If gaydom (is that a term?) is gentically pronounced, then why do they still exist?

I mean, if its not dominant in the genetic makeup, then why isn't it bred out. And if it is dominant, how does the carries procreate?

No, IMO being gay is a social reaction to outside stimuli. Its normal for humans to love other humans. We love our children, siblings, parents, friends and partners.

In our society its been socially indoctrinated by religion for a few thousand years, that same sex couplings are evil. This has led to a situation where loving one sex, or more naturally, one person of the same sex, automatically puts you in the social straitjacket of being gay.

This is complicated stuff, and my example doesn't nearly cover it.

But if we look at other species of animals, we will discover that same sex couplings are not rare. Triangles are not rare either. Pack mentality is not uncommon either.

What I'm getting at, is that the point where affection for another of the same sex crosses over from being platonic to sexual should be a much more gray area than it is portrayed to be today.

Its a very simple issue of where you draw the line on socially acceptable behaviour. In ancient Greece homosexuality was common. Women for getting shildren, young boys for fun. Not exactly acceptable by todays standards. (And I'm not advocating it either, just using it as an example we all have heard about)

On some polynesian islands the young men live apart, and some sources claim thay are very friendly among eachother.

Neither of these examples of homosexuality exclude them from also mating with, and being attracted to the opposite sex.

Our modern day, western society gay man, is straight in his sexual preference. Its dictated by society that he belong to that caste. His behaviour may be influenced by it, and exaggerated by himself to strengthen his image of himself as a member of that caste. Jean Paul Gaultier introduced the swinging wrists and slight lisp. Its not older than that, yet there have been homosexuals for as long as any life has exited on the planet.

I could build a very strong case, that homosexuality is just a social expression, determined and shaped by the community in which it finds itself. - It does not mean that homosexuals can be "cured" though. They are not sick. The feeling of attraction for someone/her/him can be strong enough to trigger lust for said person. Its much more likely that the western worlds view on homosexuality will soften to a level where the lines blur even further.

The current rage in the US, where negative is gay, is quite amusing, as it proves beyond any doubt that sexual identity in in the line of fire more than it has ever been before. The kids don't know what they are yet, but they know that they definately do not want to be the scorn of society, ie. gay. Now where do they learn that being gay is a stigma? - At home!

Building a case that can unequivocally prove that homosexuality is genetically conditioned is impossible by todays standard. And IMO, false.

Ahh.. Ya. That covers it. Sorry for the rant.

And I'm a perfectly healthy male, who prefers women. nyahnyah.gif - My personal social limit is hugging other men. Meditate on your own limits.
nezumi
I really don't know if this is the appropriate place for a debate on homosexuality. Studies have been done to support either side, and neither side has enough evidence to make a conclusive, undebatable argument (not that it has anything to do with SR in the first place). Lets just accept that all female elves are lesbians, and most of them are played by 12-15 year old boys and move on.
hermit
QUOTE
If gaydom (is that a term?) is gentically pronounced, then why do they still exist?

The term you're likely looking for is 'homosexuality'. Also, to answer your question: recessive traits that express not in all cases. That and that it's likely triggered by a variety of genes, as well as phenotypical expression in embryonic/infant age. It's a complicated matter, but in the end, it comes down to preference being determined innately, rather than consciously chosen.

QUOTE
But if we look at other species of animals, we will discover that same sex couplings are not rare. Triangles are not rare either. Pack mentality is not uncommon either.

Including in species that have a distinct total lack of any kind of social structure. So much for the theory that it's a social expression. Additionally, recent studies have found a distinct difference in pheromone reception with gay and straight people. And it is pretty much agreed that a reaction to pheromones is genetically, rather than socially, determined.

By your reasoning there should be no homosexuality in societies that condemn it on principle. This is not the case.

QUOTE
Lets just accept that all female elves are lesbians, and most of them are played by 12-15 year old boys and move on.

Mine isn't, though I'm a tad older than 15, myself. But I started her then, and she wasn't back then, either. So there.
Penta
This is not the place. Move it to Bulldrek, pleaaaaase?
Shadow
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
So if I want to hook up with a pair of bisexual elf bondage queens without making an absurdly high etiquite test what am I to do?

Take a couple of sleeping pills and dream.
hermit
QUOTE
Take a couple of sleeping pills and dream.

.... or pay them. nyahnyah.gif
weblife
QUOTE (Penta)
This is not the place. Move it to Bulldrek, pleaaaaase?

I agree. But the original poster brought it in here in the first place.
Penta
That really isn't an excuse.
hermit
QUOTE
Heck, when I was a kid I had a Gay Cocker Spaniel.

For fun's sake, at 4+ successes, the spell should tell you about any creature's orientation (if applicable).

"Oh, why, Lofwyr, I never knew ..."
hyzmarca
QUOTE (weblife)
Ok, mind puzzle for you.

If gaydom (is that a term?) is gentically pronounced, then why do they still exist?

I mean, if its not dominant in the genetic makeup, then why isn't it bred out. And if it is dominant, how does the carries procreate?

It is doubtful that a single gene causes homosexuality. More than likely it is a fairly complex combination of genes that contribute to it. More importantly, this gene combination would be different for homosexual men and homosexual women.

There is some evidence that women in families with large homosexual populations tend to be more fertile than the average . Thus, while the men may not reproduce at all the women would probably reproduce more often. It balances out. The genes for male homosexuality are easily carried through the maternal line. By the same token, the genes for female homosexuality are easily carried through the paternal line.

What evolutionary advantage might social beings gain from homosexuality? That should be obvious. Homosexuals will never reproduce with their chosen mates, barring the intervention of medical superscience (Male/male and female/female fertilizations have both been done in lab rats, but the success rate is currently pitiful). They do, however, still have a desire to raise children.

Because of this, homosexuals are naturally surrogate caregivers. Today, many homosexual couples adopt. This probably true in the past, as well. Furthermore, in a small village or nomadic society they can easily provide childcare for the children of siblings, friends, and miscellaneous other members of society.

So, a gene that makes women more likely to have many babies makes their brothers into natural babysitters. It makes sense.


For those of you wondering why I started this topic, it was inspired by an episode of Futurama. Since technological orientation detection is difficult to impossible given SR tech I decided to try something magical instead.
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