Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Is he crazy, or is it possible?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
=-_RaVeN_-=
The roomie has an idea...

A Securetech Ultra-Vest (B/A 3/2), over DIVING armor (B/A 4/2), with an Auctioneer Line Long Coat (B/A 2/2, does not count towards armor stack, etc etc)...

If you take 1/2 the highest (2/1 from the 4/2 of the Diving armor), and add it to the 3/2 of the Ultra (making it 5/3 now), and add the Auctioneer over-top (total 7/5), that's pretty good...

My question is this...

Is my roomie insane?

I noticed no listing for concealability for the Diving Armor (does that mean it's NOT concealable?), and no write-up as to whether or not it can/cannot be worn over/under any other armor... (unlike wearing say, the Futura line, with an Armored Vest w/ plates, under an Auctioneer)...

Commentz?
Fygg Nuuton
yoru armor would be 6/4 if im not mistaken.

you use the full rating of the highest and half of the rest (some people only allow 2 pieces of armor)

unless his quickness is over 9, hes gonna be encumbered though
BitBasher
No listing for concealability generally means it cannot be concealed IIRC YMMV.
Hot Wheels
He's insane. The diving suit is designed to fit like a battle suit or a mech. On the outside you'd have to get a vest specially made to fit over the bulk of the armor, the cost would be prohibative.

Inside the lined coat wouldn't work since it couldn't fit easily indside the space of the suit- with seperate legs and stuff it should bunch up around your hips- and beside, if a bullet pierces the battle armor, you don't need to worry about being hit by the bullet, you've got a leak!
motorfirebox
hot wheels, i think you're thinking of a JIM suit. diving armor is just an armored wetsuit. the reason it's not concealable is because it's a diving suit. put some clothes on over it, and it'd probably gain a conceal rating.
FritzZero
QUOTE (motorfirebox)
hot wheels, i think you're thinking of a JIM suit. diving armor is just an armored wetsuit. the reason it's not concealable is because it's a diving suit. put some clothes on over it, and it'd probably gain a conceal rating.

I believe you are right, p 51 of CC claims diving armor is "virtually identical to regular armor" - so whatever you could do with regular armor, i suppose you could do with diving (normal stacking rules apply) .

Course the player could just use FFBA like everyone else. sure, you'd lose that 1 point of impact compared to diving armor, but you wouldn't look like a ninny. smile.gif
Daishi
QUOTE (=-_RaVeN_-=)
The roomie has an idea...

A Securetech Ultra-Vest (B/A 3/2), over DIVING armor (B/A 4/2), with an Auctioneer Line Long Coat (B/A 2/2, does not count towards armor stack, etc etc)...

SNIP

Is my roomie insane?

Yes.

A few pointers to make sure it's all clear:

1) The highest armor value component is the only one considered at full by canon rules. (Although that gets annoying for odd numbered vests and such, so that might be house ruled otherwise.)

2) Diving armor? It's a kevlar wet suit. Strange, but fairly Splinter Cellish.

3) The Actioneer Line Long Coat only doesn't count for stacking when combined with other components of the Actioneer Line. ie. The long coat, hi-collar shirt, and slacks are considered one item for stacking purposes. The normal rules apply beyond that.

4) Canon rules also state that only up to two pieces of armour are considered for determing the actual armor value, although all pieces count toward encumberence. This rule is often waived by house rules. (Although, in our group we've recently re-instated it after one troll started with 10/9 armor, and my elf accidently ended up with 8/7 armor in his street clothes. Seriously, I just picked stuff I thought would be cool together...)

So in this case, he would have 5/3 armor, need 9 quickness to compensate, and be wearing a wet suit.

I reiterate. Yes. wink.gif
TheScamp
QUOTE
So in this case, he would have 5/3 armor, need 9 quickness to compensate, and be wearing a wet suit...

And would thusly pass out from heat exhaustion after a few minutes of exertion.
Laughlyn
No that's not true. Wearing a wetsuit would only cause you sweat and overheat much faster. I know putting on my wetsuit and running down the beach with surfboard only wore me out. It's doesn't kill you or cause you to pass out. Also depending on the outside heat you may not have much to worry about, as the wetsuit will keep you warm. Give them BOD x 5 minutes before they need to make a BOD test to stay active. Modify it by the outside temperature and how much water they are drinking.
Boardom
That is insane. I wore a 3/2mm wet suit and in 72 degree with you would be down with heat exaustion quickly. . . . A kevlar wet suit would be much thicker. For example, the minimun comfortable wet suit for the waters of Seattle is 1/4" or 7mm. Over twice that as most "recreational" wet suits.


I couldn't imagine running and being in combat with it. Plus, you would have stuff over it so your heat would be trapped. BOD X3 in mins


-3 karma for stupid powergaming
Laughlyn
You've obviously never wore a MOPP suit. It's not that bad. You simply need to be hydrated, in shape and used to working under high stress conditions (ie wearing a wet suit out of water in 72 degree weather). As I said above I've done it and I positive my BOD rating isn't higher than 4.

Also we aren't talking about modern wetsuits with a Kevlar lining, it is 2060+ with modern materials that have no rules for heat exhaustion.
=-_RaVeN_-=
QUOTE (TheScamp)
QUOTE
So in this case, he would have 5/3 armor, need 9 quickness to compensate, and be wearing a wet suit...

And would thusly pass out from heat exhaustion after a few minutes of exertion.

Where is all this listed in the Cannon? I've gone through the entire book (twice; I read real fast [evil grin])...

=-_RaVeN_-=
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
yoru armor would be 6/4 if im not mistaken.

you use the full rating of the highest and half of the rest (some people only allow 2 pieces of armor)

unless his quickness is over 9, hes gonna be encumbered though

SR III: (pg 285)

Layering Armor

Characters can layer armor for more protection, though even layered armor has limited effects. When wearing more than one layer of armor, add the Rating of the HIGHEST-RATED PIECE TO ONE-HALF (round down) the rating of the NEXT HIGHEST-RATED piece of clothing or armor to determine the feffective combined rating.

So yer wrong....

The highest piece (bein' 4/3 I think), would be HALVED (2/1 respectively)...
Siege
It's not canon, but it should be.

Just like they don't list perception penalties for wearing gloves. I'm a big fan of common sense, but other people are strictly "well, it's not in the rule book or it's against the rules", so pick your path and walk accordingly.

However, both points are well made -- wearing a wetsuit is not normally inconspicuous. In Hawaii or similar beach environs, it might not be uncommon.

In Seattle or Detroit, you probably will raise eyebrows.

Of course, cover it with xxl pants and unless security is really giving you the evil eye, it probably won't be noticed. Of course, I'm shuddering at the prospect of trying to move quickly or nimbly in all that crap.

He might as well just go for form-fitting body armor.

The question is -- what the hell is he trying to accomplish? Just trying to max armor? Adding a chem-resistant layer? Wanting to be water-proof (more or less)?

-Siege
Person 404
Actually, wearing gloves is a +2 to perception tests based on touch. Pg. 232, BBB. Not that it invalidates your other points, just thought I'd toss that out there.
=-_RaVeN_-=
QUOTE (Daishi)
A few pointers to make sure it's all clear:

1) The highest armor value component is the only one considered at full by canon rules. (Although that gets annoying for odd numbered vests and such, so that might be house ruled otherwise.)

2) Diving armor? It's a kevlar wet suit. Strange, but fairly Splinter Cellish.

3) The Actioneer Line Long Coat only doesn't count for stacking when combined with other components of the Actioneer Line. ie. The long coat, hi-collar shirt, and slacks are considered one item for stacking purposes. The normal rules apply beyond that.

4) Canon rules also state that only up to two pieces of armour are considered for determing the actual armor value, although all pieces count toward encumberence. This rule is often waived by house rules. (Although, in our group we've recently re-instated it after one troll started with 10/9 armor, and my elf accidently ended up with 8/7 armor in his street clothes. Seriously, I just picked stuff I thought would be cool together...)

So in this case, he would have 5/3 armor, need 9 quickness to compensate, and be wearing a wet suit.

I reiterate. Yes. wink.gif

RE: #1

Where does it say that?

RE: #2

If you heard the descrip fer his character, you'd understand (smirk)

RE: #3

Nowhere in the descrip fer the Actioneer line does it say you cannot use items individually (I know, "Why wouldja?", but it doesn't say so...)

RE: #4

Again, WHERE does it say this (page # please)

TinkerGnome
QUOTE (SR3 @ pg 285)
Layering Armor
Characters can layer armor for more protection, though even layered armor has limited effects. When wearing more than one layer of armor, add the rating of the highest-rated piece to one-half (round down) the rating of the next highest-rated piece of clothing or armor to determine the feffective combined rating.

You're completely reading that wrong. It's the full value of the highest rated and then half the value of the next highest. So, in this example it would be [4/2] + 0.5*[3/2] or 4/2 + 1/1 which is 5/3.
last_of_the_great_mikeys
I don't have my Cannon Companion book handy and I couldn't find it in the core rulebook, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that Securetech™ clothing is not stackable. Am I crazy?
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (=-_RaVeN_-=)
QUOTE (Daishi @ Sep 15 2003, 10:57 PM)
A few pointers to make sure it's all clear:
3)  The Actioneer Line Long Coat only doesn't count for stacking when combined with other components of the Actioneer Line.  ie.  The long coat, hi-collar shirt, and slacks are considered one item for stacking purposes.  The normal rules apply beyond that.

4)  Canon rules also state that only up to two pieces of armour are considered for determing the actual armor value, although all pieces count toward encumberence.  This rule is often waived by house rules.  (Although, in our group we've recently re-instated it after one troll started with 10/9 armor, and my elf accidently ended up with 8/7 armor in his street clothes.  Seriously, I just picked stuff I thought would be cool together...)

RE: #3

Nowhere in the descrip fer the Actioneer line does it say you cannot use items individually (I know, "Why wouldja?", but it doesn't say so...)

RE: #4

Again, WHERE does it say this (page # please)

#3. You can use it individually, but the special rules allowing the item to directly stack are:

QUOTE (Cannon Compaion @ pg 45-45)
Outfit Components
... These items are designed to be worn with other garments as part of an ensemble.  ... The layering armor rules (p.285,SR3) do not count toward the components of such an outfit when worn together; however, they do count if the outfit (or parts of it) are worn with other pieces of armor or armor clothing.


Clearly these rules don't apply to wearing the jacket over a wetsuit, so you have to fall back on normal layering rules.

#4. The passage we've both quoted in previous posts specificly says that you add the highest to half of the next highest. It makes no mention of the third highest either way, but since it doesn't mention the third highest, it is a reasonable interpretation that you can only get a benefit from layering two pieces of armor. Many people play it differently, in their games, but doing so borders on using a house rule.
TheScamp
QUOTE
Wearing a wetsuit would only cause you sweat and overheat much faster.

Sorry, should have said heatstroke. Wetsuits are insulation. Combined with a long coat and armored vest (and presumably other clothing) and without any added benefit of the cooling effects of latent water in the wetsuit, a person in any sort of combat situation is going to overheat very quickly.

QUOTE
Where is all this listed in the Cannon? I've gone through the entire book (twice; I read real fast [evil grin])...

It's in the part of the CC that lives in my brain, under the heading of 'Common Sense.' The same section that tells me wearing 4 layers of armor, long coats, and combat boots is not such a great idea when there's 85% humidity and high temperatures.
The White Dwarf
/agree with Tinkergnome, grammer is your friend.

Also going to point out that earlier it was stated that by canon you can only layre two pieces of armor. What should have been said is that it can be interpreted that way. Its already been discussed in numerous other threads, no need to go over it again here, but check with your GM on that one.

Otherwise the points made were correct, theres no reason to do that combination of armors from a ratings stance or a common sense stance. Simply doing full ffba under a securetech jacket is 7/3 and legal by any interpretation with a quickness of only 5. Plus it doesnt blow the common sense fuse some people have brought up.
=-_RaVeN_-=
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
QUOTE (SR3 @ pg 285)
Layering Armor
Characters can layer armor for more protection, though even layered armor has limited effects. When wearing more than one layer of armor, add the rating of the highest-rated piece to one-half (round down) the rating of the next highest-rated piece of clothing or armor to determine the feffective combined rating.

You're completely reading that wrong. It's the full value of the highest rated and then half the value of the next highest. So, in this example it would be [4/2] + 0.5*[3/2] or 4/2 + 1/1 which is 5/3.

I get it...

(ya, it was read wrong I think...)
TheBovrilMonkey
I wouldn't have a problem with someone wearing a wetsuit under clothes, especially if the background makes sense.
There may be a few issues with trying to move around in it, but unless the clothes over the top are fairly bulky, it probably wouldn't impede the character much.

Another point to consider though - if the character is wearing a wetsuit that gets wet but isn't submerged in water or wearing a windproof layer over the top, they're going to be losing heat damn quickly as the water evaporates.
In fact, the character would be better off naked in situations like that - they'd stay warm for longer eek.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012