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Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (DETROIT (AP))
A masked man ordered paramedics to step away from a teenager who lay bleeding on a stretcher from bullet wounds, then killed him with a shotgun blast to the head, authorities said.

Police on Tuesday searched for the gunman who killed Billie Rutledge, 17, on Detroit's north side.

Investigators said they were trying to determine whether Rutledge was killed because he was connected to, or knew too much about, the March 12 slaying of Shadad Yousif, 45, a businessman who lived on the same street.

Police said two paramedics found Rutledge lying in a driveway early Saturday, bleeding and calling for help. They put him on a stretcher and cut off his clothing to find the gunshot wounds.

But as the paramedics carried Rutledge to the waiting ambulance, they turned and saw a man with a shotgun who said, ''Watch out, watch out,'' police said. The paramedics ran a short distance and heard two shots.

The paramedics were not injured.


How long before paramedics become armed response units? I'm not sure it will be very soon, actually. I think it might be impractical and cost prohibitive. Generally speaking, I think the neighborhoods and people who will *need* that kind of service probably can't pay for it... unless it would be tax funded by the state or federal government.
Nikoli
Nah, they'll just tack it on with the ambulance fees, say around $25 per round used (by this I mean loaded into magazines because as we all know you can't use bullets from a previous response on the next one, they must be sanitarily desposed of and a fresh supply opened for each call) along with a fee of $50 per round actually fired to recoup the costs of cleaning the used firearm. and then finally, a fee based on round fired at the response team, but on a sliding scale as dangerous situations have a tendency to escalate. 1-10 rounds fired, $200 per; 11 to 50, $150 per; more than 50 round, it goes to a flat rate of $10,000 and the cost of round used by the repsonse team increases slightly (read:150%) to cover the costs of opening a hermetically sealed magazine intended for the next call.
lorthazar
Someone who obviously has witnessed how hospitals bill.
RangerJoe
Well, there are neighborhoods in Chicago where the fire department is armed....

/Misses my old Chicago home.
Nikoli
Yeah, after the 15th bill for my Wife's one visit to the hospital for pneumonia, I'm a little PO'd at the system you might say.
Critias
Right, and that's all the ambulance driver/EMT's fault.
Jrayjoker
Not at all. The system is set up to capitalize, and everyone has to have their piece of the pie. That being said, the thought of no ERs and a dead wife is much worse to me that 15 bills.
Nikoli
No, it's not. 'm just saying that what hosipitals charge is insane for some things, like 7 bucks per advil. Now, it's that way because of the insurance they have to carry, they carry this insurance because people like to get sue happy over every little thing.

No, I don't consider leaving a surgical tool in a patient small, that's gross negligence on the part of the head assiting nurse and surgeon.

But when you get huge bills for every litle thing you touch in a hospital, it gets a little sad.
kryton
I help configure and capture data from hospital's billing and materials management system. You'd be surprised how much hospitials spend just so they can bill you electronically. Boookuu bucks. The funny thing is though they don't make money in the Emergency rooms. The real cash comes from OR's and OR scheduling that's where 80% of a hospitals reveniue comes from. Also if the hospital is pestering you often times on big ticket items they'll charge between two and four times cost. A Boston Scientific Scimed Arterial stend costs around $5000 they billed my mom for $20,000 it. Of course how can you put a price on someone's life.

...Cough cough cough...Wheeeze......ack......thump.......
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (kryton @ Jun 8 2005, 01:51 PM)
Of course how can you put a price on someone's life.

...Cough cough cough...Wheeeze......ack......thump.......

10k for an easy hit, 50k to make it look like an 'accident', 1 million for a celebrity hit...

Oh, you meant the price for having them alive, oops, my bad. wink.gif
Edward
My planed outpatient service got me 4 bills

Hospital
Surgeon
Ex-ray
Anesthesiologist

I donít so much mind paying for all these things but why couldnít the hospital tie it all up into a neat bundle so I donít have to go into my health insurer 4 times.

I can easily see a more complicated procedure justifying a itemized bill as long as your arm but 15 bills is out of turn, once I leave any business I expect the next bill to settle accounts.

Edward

Edit: Should have mentioned I am in Australia, we have a moderately good public health system but I also have private cover, I could have had the procedure performed in a public hospital for free but would have had to wait 6 to 18 months as it was very non critical. (unfortunately so is having a colostomy bag removed)
Shadow
I know a lot of EMTs have a similiar attitude to doctors, they are to save lives, not take them. So I am not sure how willing they would be to carry guns and shoot people. You would probably nee to take people who wanted to be cops or soldiers, but couldn't and train them to be EMT's.
Nikoli
The trick is, the firearems are pulled when you know it's a high danger situation. The weapons are used to visibly deter potential assailants and repel actual ones. I personally could see them using firearms to protect the life of a person, but not to protect property from being stolen, unless the theft of that property would cause someone to directly lose their life.
SpasticTeapot
Currently, the US military is working on a doodad that fires a huge beam of semi-colminated microwave radiation. It works as a crowd control device; there's no real damage done, but you feel like your skin is being peeled off with a hot knife. All they have to do is stick one of those on top of an ambulance, and you can incapacitate the target of your choice in as little as 3 seconds!
Nikoli
Yeah, the pain gun is a wonderful idea. Till someone sues for cruel punishment.
weblife
Well, I can offer you a contrast to your healthcare system:

In Denmark all medical care is free. Longterm medication isn't, but you get help with the bill to some degree.

Being free, the system needs taxes to work. We have a tax pressure of approx 50% income tax, that scales from 40% for low income groups to 69% for the upper 20% of the population.

In addition there is a tax on services and all products of 25%, meaning that in addition to the 50% you just paid in taxes, no matter what you buy you pay atleast (luxury goods gets additional tax) another 25% of your money in tax.

For that we recieve inefficient public healthcare, with hospitals that close operating rooms at 16:00 pm, so that the doctors can rent them for their private businesses after hours.

The operating queues grow, and its almost never the newest breakthrough technology that gets used in Denmark, after a procedure is common in the US or elsewhere, it has to be tested and proven all over again in Denmark. Effectively meaning that in areas like cancer, you have better odds if you rush south of the border to Germany and see the experts there.

Personally it pisses me off that so much money just vanish in administration. If our hospitals were forced to compete, then we would get more for our money here.

Fortunately the government have realised the poor status of the national healthcare offers, and now guarantee treatment within a decent amount of time, if need be, they pay the bill for private clinic or the trip to Germany.

Ahh.. I had no point in this. Just telling a little story I guess. smile.gif
Nikoli
I hear similair stories concerning the healthcare in Canada, and with the resulting remarks about running to the US for advanced healthcare. On paper, most socialistic ideas seem to work.
There are all sorts of spin off discussions I could offer up, but I won't. This isn't the right forum for that.
wagnern
Hopefully, if the situation is bad enough that the Parametics need guns, there would be police around.
Panzergeist
It seems it would make more sense to just have the police cars and ambulances stick together so they can both respond together.
Crimsondude 2.0
Like the police and fire departments. It's sad, but an ever more ubhiquitous occurrence.

But I'm wondering why police weren't there or en route to a gunshot wound call, other than it's Detroit and Detroit's not exactly the most well-policed city in America.
Shrapnel
QUOTE (weblife)
For that we recieve inefficient public healthcare, with hospitals that close operating rooms at 16:00 pm, so that the doctors can rent them for their private businesses after hours.

The operating queues grow, and its almost never the newest breakthrough technology that gets used in Denmark, after a procedure is common in the US or elsewhere, it has to be tested and proven all over again in Denmark. Effectively meaning that in areas like cancer, you have better odds if you rush south of the border to Germany and see the experts there.

This all makes perfect sense...

If they make you wait long enough, and you die before they treat you, they get to keep all that wonderful tax money for themselves... mad.gif

And I thought our insurance system was screwed up...


By the way, I think that paramedics *should* be allowed to arm themselves, if they so choose. It shouldn't be required, but it should at least be an option. Just my opinion.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (weblife)
Personally it pisses me off that so much money just vanish in administration. If our hospitals were forced to compete, then we would get more for our money here.

dont expect competition to be the holy grail to solve all problems. most likely its just trading one set of problems for another.

most likely the competition will happen on those fast&simple to cure problems where you can have nice flow of patients while those that need long term complicated care they will not touch unless the goverment force them to.
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