I've never come across any (that I recognized), but are there any SR references to Scientology and the CoS?
EDIT: Er, wrong forum, can a mod move this to the SR forum?
Full Version: Scientology in the Sixth World
That's a scary thought
I know. Was reading some article about Tom and Katie, and I thought...wow, I've never thought about Scientology and the Sixth World before.
They have the makings of a very scary org in SR. More scary.
They have the makings of a very scary org in SR. More scary.
Well, givent eh events in the SR timeline, I would imagine that Scientology is the #1 religion as it seems to have most aptly predicted the events that unfolded.
Bug Spirits = aliens invading?
Given the "religious" nature of the beliefs, you could have Scientology shamans.
It was pretty clear at the time it came out that the UB was essentially Scientology. For those of us who lived in Seattle when UB came out it was kind of scary. Because the UB's recruiting method was EXACTLY like the Scientologists.
As far as I know though they didn't turn you into bug spirits.
As far as I know.
As far as Tom goes I like his movies and he seems like a nice guy, but like most people in Hollywood I have to ignore their personal/political beliefs.
As far as I know though they didn't turn you into bug spirits.
As far as I know.
As far as Tom goes I like his movies and he seems like a nice guy, but like most people in Hollywood I have to ignore their personal/political beliefs.
well, they are alien in motives.
I dunno, the idea of a circle of Travolta Shaman's does sounds rather amusing. Each one with a skill-set derived from the various movies.
I dunno, the idea of a circle of Travolta Shaman's does sounds rather amusing. Each one with a skill-set derived from the various movies.
Hm, never made the connection to UB and CoS before, but I guess you're right.
Did the UB have a Sea Org? Floating hives, ooh.
Did the UB have a Sea Org? Floating hives, ooh.
I always thought the UB was supposed to be a thinly-veiled reference to Scientology.
I have a pretty good guess about why there's no actual Scientology in Shadowrun, though--go take a look at clambake.org for some info. The higher-ups and lawyers associated with the CoS have no sense of humor whatsoever, and have been known to sue the crap out of anybody they perceive as disparaging them. FanPro doesn't need that kind of aggravation--even if the suits are patently false and frivolous, it still costs money to fight them. The CoS has a lot of money.
I have a pretty good guess about why there's no actual Scientology in Shadowrun, though--go take a look at clambake.org for some info. The higher-ups and lawyers associated with the CoS have no sense of humor whatsoever, and have been known to sue the crap out of anybody they perceive as disparaging them. FanPro doesn't need that kind of aggravation--even if the suits are patently false and frivolous, it still costs money to fight them. The CoS has a lot of money.
Good call.
I have the hardcopy notes that were submitted proposing the UB adventure. It was based on the author's personal experiences with Scientology.
Oh man, post em? Or PM or something? That would be interesting to read.
| QUOTE (winterhawk11 @ Jun 10 2005, 08:26 AM) |
| I have a pretty good guess about why there's no actual Scientology in Shadowrun, though--go take a look at clambake.org for some info. The higher-ups and lawyers associated with the CoS have no sense of humor whatsoever, and have been known to sue the crap out of anybody they perceive as disparaging them. FanPro doesn't need that kind of aggravation--even if the suits are patently false and frivolous, it still costs money to fight them. The CoS has a lot of money. |
Which is really odd, now I think about it. How in the heck did a religion based around a science fiction book manage to draw so many rich stupid people into it? I admit I don't know a thing about the religion itself, but it seems odd that they've managed to sucker, I mean convert, so many rich people so quickly, and turn em into such zealots to boot.
| QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) |
| Which is really odd, now I think about it. How in the heck did a religion based around a science fiction book manage to draw so many rich stupid people into it? I admit I don't know a thing about the religion itself, but it seems odd that they've managed to sucker, I mean convert, so many rich people so quickly, and turn em into such zealots to boot. |
That's a really good question. Before the internet, I'd understand it a little better, but now that you can find their "secret texts" on the 'net and see just how batsh*t nutso they are, it's hard to understand how anybody could fall for it. Of course, apparently you don't get the nutso stuff early on--you have to work for the church for a long time (and spend a lot of money) before you find out about X*nu and humans being descended from cl*ms and all that stuff (asterisks mine, to thwart search engines).
One reason that they seem to collect celebrities is that apparently they get a significantly different version of the "religion" than the rank and file Joe Sixpack does. The church maintains "celebrity centers" and treats these folks very well, recognizing what kind of marketing advantages they can get if high-profile people like Tom Cruise and John Travolta are associated with them.
If you're interested, I really recommend checking out clambake.org. They've got some pretty amazing info (nutso-wise) plus a lot of stuff about how far the CoS will go to make sure they don't get their feelings hurt.
I don't think it is based off of Battlefield Earth, it's fron Dyanetics, same author though.
I am no great expert, and I don't want to degrade anyones beliefs just because I don't share them. I think ST is based on self help. The alien thing could just be a rumor started by people who don't like them.
I am no great expert, and I don't want to degrade anyones beliefs just because I don't share them. I think ST is based on self help. The alien thing could just be a rumor started by people who don't like them.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| I don't think it is based off of Battlefield Earth, it's fron Dyanetics, same author though. |
No one said it's based off of Battlefield Earth. Dyanetics is one of the books. I actually have it on my reading list (I'm curious). The author is L. Ron Hubbard.
Personally, I preferred Stranger in a Strange Land when it comes to religions written by sci-fi authors.
This is before most of y'all's time, but check, out a book called Inferno by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. In it, L. Ron Hubbard is finally given the proper reward for all of his 'ard work.
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Personally, I preferred Stranger in a Strange Land when it comes to religions written by sci-fi authors. |
It's certainly sexier than Scientology.
Stranger in a Strange Land is basically Secular Humanism carried to one of its many logical extremes.
| QUOTE (Nerbert) |
| Stranger in a Strange Land is basically Secular Humanism carried to one of its many logical extremes. |
So is that the one with the incest? It's been a looooooong time.
| QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) |
| How in the heck did a religion based around a science fiction book |
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| No one said it's based off of Battlefield Earth. Dyanetics is one of the books. I actually have it on my reading list (I'm curious). The author is L. Ron Hubbard. |
Dyanetics is not a Sci-fi book. It may have been written by an author who was made famous for writing Sci-Fi, but the book it self is not Sci-Fi. This is why I assumed he thought it was based on Battlefield Earth (another popular book that is Sci-Fi written by the same author.)
| QUOTE (Req) | ||
So is that the one with the incest? It's been a looooooong time. |
I don't recall there being any. There was pedophilia... which is what caused what happened to Valentine Michael Smith to happen at the end of the book. Lets just say this was one of RAH's more different books. And I highly recommend reading his other books (Starship Troopers, Have Space Suit Will Travel, Friday) before you tackle this one.
Bear in mind RAH didn't necessarily belive what his main characters did as they all had a different pov. I would think if anything the "Old Man" or "Boss" found in so many of his books represented him.
Its shameful what the movie did to Starship Troopers.
Its been a long time since I read it but the big deviant thing I remember from Stranger was canibalism.
Its been a long time since I read it but the big deviant thing I remember from Stranger was canibalism.
Admitedly I have not studied Scientology very much since, well, it doesn't merit my attention, but I figure one of 2 things:
1) Actors and other rich types are so spiritually bankrupt that they'll go for anything
2) They fake their "belief" in order to sucker the lesser masses into it so they can take their money and divide according to their determined pyramid scheme.
I tend towards the second one. Not I also think the same thing of Kabbala (as presented by Madonna et al., not the actual system which is, of course, not at all the same and does not require a 50$ red bracelet)
In any case, they are both cults (in the pejorative sense), and SR has loads of cults so it'd be easy to implement them in SR.
However, the idea of researching Scientology to convincingly portray it in SR revolts me too much, I'd just rather invent a new one or something.
1) Actors and other rich types are so spiritually bankrupt that they'll go for anything
2) They fake their "belief" in order to sucker the lesser masses into it so they can take their money and divide according to their determined pyramid scheme.
I tend towards the second one. Not I also think the same thing of Kabbala (as presented by Madonna et al., not the actual system which is, of course, not at all the same and does not require a 50$ red bracelet)
In any case, they are both cults (in the pejorative sense), and SR has loads of cults so it'd be easy to implement them in SR.
However, the idea of researching Scientology to convincingly portray it in SR revolts me too much, I'd just rather invent a new one or something.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| Dyanetics is not a Sci-fi book. |
That's debatable.
The thing I think is really funny is there's a picture of a volcano on the cover (apparently the secret alien overlords live in a volcano, if memory serves).
FYI, anyone who played Fallout 2, remember the Hubologists? Another spoof.
| QUOTE (Bigity) |
| Oh man, post em? Or PM or something? That would be interesting to read. |
I'd recommend against this.
Besides the obvious copyright issue, it could provoke Scientology to take some action against the author.
I think that including any reference to Scientology in a RPG produced by a company that is sufficiently small to not have its own legal department would be a phenomenally bad idea. They've got a long history of suing anyone that says anything bad about them, or even anything non-good, into oblivion. Unless we want a book that amounts to a recruitment pamphlet for them or their logical successor, all that can really be done is very careful tongue-in-cheek humor. I'm sure that the UB was in some fashion inspired by them, but it was likely inspired on a level so far removed from fact and trademark that it was legally unassailable and/or too oblique to draw the attention of their all-seeing legal eye.
These secret texts are not made up. At least a few of them were revealed as evidence during a prolonged lawsuit. As for the others, they are supposedly leaked by people who have infiltrated the Scientologists. Given how crazy the confirmed texts are, I am inclined to believe that the other stuff is real. FYI, the secret texts are called "Operating Thetan" manuals. For more information, go to wikipedia and look up Xenu, Operating Thetan, and Mystery Religions.
| QUOTE (nezumi) | ||
No one said it's based off of Battlefield Earth. Dyanetics is one of the books. I actually have it on my reading list (I'm curious). The author is L. Ron Hubbard. Personally, I preferred Stranger in a Strange Land when it comes to religions written by sci-fi authors. |
Rumors has it that there was actually a bet involved betwixt Hubbard and Heinlein regarding creating wacky religions. I have no evidence that this is remotely true, but if it is it's sad that the other one didn't take hold. Could have actually done some good.
~J
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| FYI, anyone who played Fallout 2, remember the Hubologists? Another spoof. |
Juan Cruz and Nikki Coleman, or something?
"We're so famous! We're so beautiful! I love you so much! Hubology is great!"
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||||
Rumors has it that there was actually a bet involved betwixt Hubbard and Heinlein regarding creating wacky religions. I have no evidence that this is remotely true, but if it is it's sad that the other one didn't take hold. Could have actually done some good. ~J |
Funerals would certainly be a lot more interesting.
The Scientologists in SR? No. They went bankrupt after they tried to sue Dunkelzahn for making jokes about them on national trid. 
L. Ron Hubbard is a fixer in my game. My players love him.
Farnham's Freehold is probably the Heinlein book you're thinking of if you're talking about the book with incest.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| There was pedophilia... which is what caused what happened to Valentine Michael Smith to happen at the end of the book. |
There was pedophilia in SiaSL? That must have blown right by me, because I can't remember anything about that...
How can written notes from UB development ...stuff that was given away, be a copyright infringement?
Because the notes are basically the 'blueprints' for UB.
Thus PM's are in order.
Or an e-mail, I am stomach the risk.
Or an e-mail, I am stomach the risk.
| QUOTE (Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate) | ||
There was pedophilia in SiaSL? That must have blown right by me, because I can't remember anything about that... |
Ephebophilia, more likely—a lot of people misuse the word "pedophilia" to apply to sexual relationships with adolescents under the age of consent.
That being said, it's been too long since I read the book.
~J
| QUOTE (Supercilious) |
| L. Ron Hubbard is a fixer in my game. My players love him. |
that's so terrible it's making me giggle.
I wouldn't be surprised if the CoS used mad amounts of psychotropic IC on their systems. "I love the CoS! Everyone come experience the wonders!" This is one of the reasons I hope IC never gets developed.
I don't recall Farnham's Freehold having incest. To Sail Beyond the Sunset had a brother and sister having sex. In Job: A Comedy of Justice, a man talks about his urge to have sex with his daughter, but then, the man turns out to be Satan.
Harlan Ellison tells a story about the origin of Scientology. He and a bunch of other SF writers, including L. Ron Hubbard, were sitting around one night talking about how the best way to make a ton of money was to start a religion (I don't remember if he said that it was Hubbard himself that proposed this idea). Several months later, Hubbard released Dianetics and the rest is history.
I picked up a copy of Dianetics when I was a teenager and they used to advertise it on TV. This was before I really knew anything about Scientology, but the ads said that the book could change your life, so I checked it out. The book was dense and tedious, and I didn't get very far at all. But in any case, it's not a sci-fi book in the usual sense; it's not a novel, but a weird sort of self-help book that basically serves as the bible of Scientology.
I've seen the current leader of the movement on TV screaming his head off over someone having said something negative about CoS. They're extremely litigious, so whatever their teachings, they obviously don't include tolerance or forgiveness.
Shawn
I picked up a copy of Dianetics when I was a teenager and they used to advertise it on TV. This was before I really knew anything about Scientology, but the ads said that the book could change your life, so I checked it out. The book was dense and tedious, and I didn't get very far at all. But in any case, it's not a sci-fi book in the usual sense; it's not a novel, but a weird sort of self-help book that basically serves as the bible of Scientology.
I've seen the current leader of the movement on TV screaming his head off over someone having said something negative about CoS. They're extremely litigious, so whatever their teachings, they obviously don't include tolerance or forgiveness.
Shawn
I honestly think Hubbard was trying to be clever. He wrote a book that made a lot of sense (Dianetics) and that could be a decent basis for a personal religion. But then to drive home the fact that he wrote it more as a joke than not, he came up with all the ridiculous stuff you find in the "secret texts." Unfortunately he died before he could smack those idiots in the so-called "Church of Scientology" upside the head for taking it seriously.
The fact that so many people have bought the "sacred texts" as truth even though it's clearly B.S. is the sad thing. Dianetics itself isn't all that bad; it's little more than a philosophy that focused on self-improvement and doing good for the sake of doing good. It's just that its formed into an organized religion full of fanatics (the fall of any good idea or belief system) is why its eye rolling-worthy.
The fact that so many people have bought the "sacred texts" as truth even though it's clearly B.S. is the sad thing. Dianetics itself isn't all that bad; it's little more than a philosophy that focused on self-improvement and doing good for the sake of doing good. It's just that its formed into an organized religion full of fanatics (the fall of any good idea or belief system) is why its eye rolling-worthy.
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| That's a scary thought |
Sounds to me like an opportunity for some wetwork... a LOT of wetwork.
| QUOTE (XON2000) |
| Harlan Ellison tells a story about the origin of Scientology. He and a bunch of other SF writers, including L. Ron Hubbard, were sitting around one night talking about how the best way to make a ton of money was to start a religion (I don't remember if he said that it was Hubbard himself that proposed this idea). Several months later, Hubbard released Dianetics and the rest is history. I picked up a copy of Dianetics when I was a teenager and they used to advertise it on TV. This was before I really knew anything about Scientology, but the ads said that the book could change your life, so I checked it out. The book was dense and tedious, and I didn't get very far at all. But in any case, it's not a sci-fi book in the usual sense; it's not a novel, but a weird sort of self-help book that basically serves as the bible of Scientology. I've seen the current leader of the movement on TV screaming his head off over someone having said something negative about CoS. They're extremely litigious, so whatever their teachings, they obviously don't include tolerance or forgiveness. Shawn |
The word through a freind of mine was that it was a bet by L.Ron, Frank Herbert and Robert Heinlen. The bet was to see who can make the longest lasting "religion" from thier writings. He got this from one of his writer freinds who knew the inside scoop. I guess L. Ron won.
Interesting views, I guess the mystery surrounding any religion breeds misunderstanding. I still want to know what’s locked up in the Vatican.
The first book was Dianetics, the idea is that the problems of the body could be handled by helping the spirit. The book has a lot of data and is a great read the problem is it’s a hard read. It’s not the stuff of magic or Aliens, but when applied properly it does seem to work and help.
Over all, most people I have met whom are "on course" or going to an org are brighter, smarter people than average. They seem nice and the aim of the "church" seems to be to "Make the able, more able."
Well I don't know everything, but if any one has any question I can try to answer them.
The first book was Dianetics, the idea is that the problems of the body could be handled by helping the spirit. The book has a lot of data and is a great read the problem is it’s a hard read. It’s not the stuff of magic or Aliens, but when applied properly it does seem to work and help.
Over all, most people I have met whom are "on course" or going to an org are brighter, smarter people than average. They seem nice and the aim of the "church" seems to be to "Make the able, more able."
Well I don't know everything, but if any one has any question I can try to answer them.
also, for some more facts on the subject, check out this link.
http://faq.scientology.org/ref_6.htm
http://faq.scientology.org/ref_6.htm
Lots of religions/cults have positive aspects, Scientologists included. However, just because some of the teachings are valuable, it does not follow that all teachings are; just because some motives are noble, it does not follow that all motives are; just because some core beliefs make sense, it does not follow that all beliefs are justified.
This is still in the wrong forum.
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