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Maverick

Jun 15 2005, 03:58 PM

Hey.

Our group is relatively new to shadowrun.
Got a couple questions about advancing our characters.

In SR3 p.244 it states explicitly that attributes can only be raised one at a time, you pay double karma for the next level of the desired attribute, eg 5 -> 6 = 12 karma.

For increaseing your skills, the rules arent as explicit as the rules for attributes.
Say i have pistols 3 and i want to upgrade it to pistols 6.
Do i just pay the cost for 6?
Or do i have to pay the karma to upgrade to pistols 4, then 5, then 6, which is obviously much more expensive.

Also, looking at the FanPro site, in the errata section it says the following:

p. 245: Skill Improvement Cost Table [3]
Less than or equal to Attribute Rating 0.5
Less than or equal to (2 x Attribute Rating) 1
More than (2 x Attribute Rating) 1.5

The book says
Less than or equal to Attribute Rating 1.5
Less than or equal to (2 x Attribute Rating) 2
More than (2 x Attribute Rating) 2.5

Does this just mean that in the 3rd printing they decided that raising skills was way to expensive so they reduced the cost multipliers by 1 each?
Or does this just refer to the specialisation multipliers?
Or whats the deal?

Ol' Scratch

Jun 15 2005, 04:04 PM

Skills work the same way as Attributes for improving them; you have to buy them one rank at a time for purposes of determining their cost, though there's nothing stopping you from buying multiple ranks at the same time.

As for the errata, yes, that's in reference to specializations, not general skills. The little [3] indicator means that it's errata for the third table on that page.

Maverick

Jun 15 2005, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

As for the errata, yes, that's in reference to specializations, not general skills.

Then why is it listed in the eratta?
Its exactly the same as the table listed in the book... ?

Maverick

Jun 15 2005, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Maverick @ Jun 15 2005, 11:06 AM)

Then why is it listed in the eratta?
Its exactly the same as the table listed in the book... ?

Because we've got the 8th printing, therefore the correction made in 3rd printing has already been corrected...

dont mind me, im a bit slow

Ok then...

Suggestion time.

Ive got an elf Adept.
Very quick, very stealthy, but very weak.
In our recent trip to the meta-planes ('Harlequins Back' adventure

) i nearly died 3 times because im useless in melee combat when i dont have a pistol.

Ive got strength of 2
clubs (stun baton) 1(3)
Arnis De Mano 2

He uses shock gloves and stun batons because they are far stronger then he will ever be.
Unfortunatly, im still only rolling 2-3 dice without combat pool in melee, so while the weapons are strong, i never actually win the combat to land a blow.

Whats a good way to get myself more dice in the combat, without spending lots of karma to increase my strength (which i think is otherwise useless for this character)?

Herald of Verjigorm

Jun 15 2005, 04:08 PM

The error was fixed in the third printing (that's what the 3 in the bracket means). Unless you have a very old main book, the change is already applied correctly.

Ol' Scratch

Jun 15 2005, 04:19 PM

That's what the brackets mean? Man, I've been self-deluded all this time.

<wallows in his amazing power of observation>

Ol' Scratch

Jun 15 2005, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (Maverick)

He uses shock gloves and stun batons because they are far stronger then he will ever be.
Unfortunatly, im still only rolling 2-3 dice without combat pool in melee, so while the weapons are strong, i never actually win the combat to land a blow.

Whats a good way to get myself more dice in the combat, without spending lots of karma to increase my strength (which i think is otherwise useless for this character)?

You're basically screwed if you go up against any kind of highly skilled combatant. Against your average guard or ganger, you'll do just fine. Your only real option to improve your capabilities, however, is to get some implants (like Skillwires, Enhanced Articulation, or Reflex Recorders) or increase your actual skill level unless you're a magician.

If you are a magician (and I'm getting the impression that you're not), you're just as competent in close quarters as you are in range; just hurl a Stunbolt at them and forget about it.

Jrayjoker

Jun 15 2005, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Maverick @ Jun 15 2005, 10:10 AM)

Whats a good way to get myself more dice in the combat, without spending lots of karma to increase my strength (which i think is otherwise useless for this character)?

You don't get dice from strength, unless you are defaulting to strength for a skill you do not possess. Your strength is used to calculate the power of your attacks (i.e. katana damage is (STR+3)S (or is it M?))

I would spend the karma on bumping your skills and specializations. Otherwise you are out of luck. There is no canon method to increasing dice except through enhanced articulation (artwinkulation) which is bioware, edges, or physad powers IIRC.

As an established character, you need the Karmas.

Maverick

Jun 15 2005, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

Your only real option to improve your capabilities, however, is to get some implants (like Skillwires, Enhanced Articulation, or Reflex Recorders) or increase your actual skill level unless you're a magician.

Im a phys adept, so i'll probly stay away from the cyberware

Im thinking improving my abilities with the shock gloves are the way to go...

But they are gloves...

What skill to take/increase/specialise in to improve my ability with them?

Or is it just assumed that any blow i make in unarmed combat, be it brawling, or a martial art, i use the damage of the gloves?

It's cheaper karma-wise to increase a specialisation, so if i wanna get more dice with shock gloves, do i take Unarmed Combat (Shock Gloves)?
Or can i specialise a martial art such as my Arnis De Mano (or say ninjitsu for example) in shock gloves?

Or do i just have to bite the bullet, increase my strength, the nincrease my mele combat skills the expensive way?

Jrayjoker

Jun 15 2005, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (Maverick)

Or do i just have to bite the bullet, increase my strength, the nincrease my mele combat skills the expensive way?

Yeah, I think that is the way to go....sorry

Kagetenshi

Jun 15 2005, 04:36 PM

Gloves use unarmed or martial art of choice. Shock glove use may be considered a valid specialization by some GMs.

Keep in mind that in addition to the shock damage you do get some strength-based damage that will have its Power upped by increasing your Strength, plus you'll be able to carry more stuff, so it isn't wasted.

~J

Ol' Scratch

Jun 15 2005, 04:39 PM

QUOTE

But Armed Combat Skills are generally linked to Strength, so if you want the cheaper costs, you'll want a higher Strength.

In any case, Stun Gloves do their Stun damage on top of your unarmed combat damage. If you're using the Martial Arts rules, there is no Unarmed Combat skill, so that's a moot point. You can ask your GM if you can still take Shock Gloves as a specialization of your Martial Art skill, though (I doubt if they'd have a problem with it even if the rules say "no" for the idea of specialization in Martial Arts skills for whatever silly reason).

But yes, your best bet in that case would be to get your Strength up a little (either through Karma and/or the Improved Physical Attribute power), and then raising your Armed Combat Skill(s) through either Karma and/or Improved Ability.

You can always take the Cognition metamagic technique from SOTA:2064, too, to help lower the cost for raising your skills in the same way a Mnemonic Enhancer would.

Jrayjoker

Jun 15 2005, 04:41 PM

But it will all take Karma to do, Some paths more than others.

Do you plan on making this a long term character?

Maverick

Jun 15 2005, 04:51 PM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

You can always take the Cognition metamagic technique from SOTA:2064, too, to help lower the cost for raising your skills in the same way a Mnemonic Enhancer would.

That raises another question ive got

Ive got an initiation coming up soon and am shopping around for what to spend my new power point on.

The only books we have that have any real lists of adept powers in them are SR3 and Magic in the Shadows.
Target: Awakend Lands has a couple, but they arent really appropriate.

What other books have listings of adept powers in them?
Our gm doesnt want us using any non-canon resources for adept powers like the Adept Handybook, he prefers the 'official' stuff

Ol' Scratch

Jun 15 2005, 04:52 PM

Target: Awakened Lands, SOTA:2063, and SOTA:2064 are your main options for metamagic techniques. SOTA:2064 is all about adepts, so that's the one you'd probably want to focus on.

Maverick

Jun 15 2005, 04:54 PM

QUOTE (Jrayjoker)

Do you plan on making this a long term character?

Yeah well what do they say about the best laid plans of mice and men?

I think so. He has the potential to last a fair while, coz i play it pretty safe.
Plus the fact that i think the GM has let me/us survive a couple times, just because he invested so much time creating the storylines were involved in, i dont think he wants to see his starring actors get gunned down just yet

ATM ive earned 40 good karma.
Thats a new record for our group hehe.

Jrayjoker

Jun 15 2005, 05:17 PM

Sounds like you are well on your way to upping a couple things. Have fun with it.

Maverick

Jun 16 2005, 12:15 AM

Thanks for the advice guys.

Good to finally find a decent Shadowrun forum.
You might see a bit more of me from now on

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