Greetings,
I've played SR on and off for more years than I care to recall. I always had a big problem with Deckers. I understand how important decking is to the SR universe and to shadowrunning in general, but I really hate the way a decker is essentially one character playing a solo campaign in the midst of my regular campaign. Decking stops the entire flow while 1 person plays and everyone else stares up at the ceiling, with every "oh and I wanna..." I can hear the rest of the players teeth slowly grinding.
As such I've always used the following rule.
No deckers or all deckers.
I always use NPC deckers as decking is essentially an information source and an invaluable assistance when running in general.
How does everyone else handle this? I'm curious.
Sunday
Full Version: Decking, how do you deal?
NPC deckers as contacts. for those very reasons you mentioned. IIRC, shadowrun Companion has advice on integrating a PC decker in games without being boring, but i've never read it.
If your other players can't sit tight for the three minutes tops it should take a decently-prepared decker to either do what he or she needs to do or hose the run sufficiently that it's time to start running anyway, you have a problem of a different kind there.
~J
[edit] I suppose it can get up to eight to ten minutes for certain highly complicated and high-security nethops, but in general it's no worse than the infiltration specialist going in first and opening the doors for everyone else.
~J
[edit] I suppose it can get up to eight to ten minutes for certain highly complicated and high-security nethops, but in general it's no worse than the infiltration specialist going in first and opening the doors for everyone else.
I'm not familiar with the new rules yet (just getting back into the game) but back in the day a Matrix run was as involved, or more so, than normal combat. 8-10 minutes certainly would not even come close to covering the time we spent waiting on our decker to get in and out of system.
I'm contemplating making the decker be someone's second character (one person would play a rigger and a decker) and then using quick combat resolution rules for the Matrix. (The one's that are in that introductory product, can't think of the name.) Has anyone else used those rules?
I'm contemplating making the decker be someone's second character (one person would play a rigger and a decker) and then using quick combat resolution rules for the Matrix. (The one's that are in that introductory product, can't think of the name.) Has anyone else used those rules?
I've said this before and I'll say it again. As long as the player and the gamemaster are comfortable with the rules there is no reason why SR3 Decking should bog down the game any more than astral or rigged recon of a site. In 90% of the cases Matrix runs take the extra time because either the GM or the player couldn't be bothered to know the Matrix rules as well as they know the Powers of a Spirit a shaman can conjure.
We've been going over exactly this in the Matrix Walkthough thread here and on the previous board, and we've even "roleplayed" a full datasteal with a newbie decker just to prove the point. For those who might want to strip it of the roleplaying side and make it even more streamlined we even boiled it down to Ten Tests (about half-way down) including all of 4 Tests necessary when the decker resorted to Cybercombat.
We've been going over exactly this in the Matrix Walkthough thread here and on the previous board, and we've even "roleplayed" a full datasteal with a newbie decker just to prove the point. For those who might want to strip it of the roleplaying side and make it even more streamlined we even boiled it down to Ten Tests (about half-way down) including all of 4 Tests necessary when the decker resorted to Cybercombat.
I must admit, though, Synner, that playing my role in the Walkthrough has greatly increased my confidence in my skills to play a decker -- and I already knew fairly well how to use the Matrix rules.
Well, I took the "role" out of "roleplaying" when it comes to deckers. We log onto shadowrun.i-sphynx.com, click on Matrix Run, and fill in the spaces. I base the info on how far you get. It saves your CyberDeck via cookies, so you only have to fill in your CyberDeck data once (unless you upgrade) and will do all the "rules" for you. 
Sphynx
Sphynx
| QUOTE (Sunday_Gamer) |
| Greetings, I've played SR on and off for more years than I care to recall. I always had a big problem with Deckers. I understand how important decking is to the SR universe and to shadowrunning in general, but I really hate the way a decker is essentially one character playing a solo campaign in the midst of my regular campaign. Decking stops the entire flow while 1 person plays and everyone else stares up at the ceiling, with every "oh and I wanna..." I can hear the rest of the players teeth slowly grinding. As such I've always used the following rule. No deckers or all deckers. I always use NPC deckers as decking is essentially an information source and an invaluable assistance when running in general. How does everyone else handle this? I'm curious. Sunday |
I basically end up running deckers as NPCs. They're useful contacts, but almost never played because, like you, the campaign needs to be no deckers or all deckers.
I play my group's Combat Decker... He gets to go along the runs incase he has to jack-in on site, but also provides some over-watch.
The only other Matrix user in the group is an Otaku who only runs with us on occasion.
The way we usually get my character's decking work done is a player who has experience as a GM (and experience with the matrix/decking) runs the matrix half of the run while the GM does the normal game.
Helps keep every one interested, and on target. Also allows us matrix users to get more done and not feel rushed.
The only other Matrix user in the group is an Otaku who only runs with us on occasion.
The way we usually get my character's decking work done is a player who has experience as a GM (and experience with the matrix/decking) runs the matrix half of the run while the GM does the normal game.
Helps keep every one interested, and on target. Also allows us matrix users to get more done and not feel rushed.
The other thing to bear in mind is that if a decker character is doing an extended matrix hack that will take more than 5 minutes then the GM should switch back and forth between players so they don't get bored.
E.g.
"Okay you've logged on the system, cruised past the indexing system to find the file you want - you start to download it when you notice that you've triggered some IC."
<turns to other players>
"Okay you had been speaking with your snitch after buying him and drink and he's just revealed that your Mr Johnson was recently seen speaking to the Ancients go gang, what do you do next?"
Just as a GM could focus for 10 or more minutes on another character's attempts at legwork, they could also focus for 10 or more minutes on a decker's attempts at decking. However it is best to chop and change so no one gets bored - and the break in the action lets each player have some thinking time to plan their next action.
E.g.
"Okay you've logged on the system, cruised past the indexing system to find the file you want - you start to download it when you notice that you've triggered some IC."
<turns to other players>
"Okay you had been speaking with your snitch after buying him and drink and he's just revealed that your Mr Johnson was recently seen speaking to the Ancients go gang, what do you do next?"
Just as a GM could focus for 10 or more minutes on another character's attempts at legwork, they could also focus for 10 or more minutes on a decker's attempts at decking. However it is best to chop and change so no one gets bored - and the break in the action lets each player have some thinking time to plan their next action.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| I've said this before and I'll say it again. As long as the player and the gamemaster are comfortable with the rules there is no reason why SR3 Decking should bog down the game any more than astral or rigged recon of a site. |
In theory, that's right. But it feels entirely different in gameplay.
When a mage goes on astral recon, the rigger sends a couple of drones out to scout, etc, that's in effectively pre-game time. Complications might force a little playing time (or a lot, depending on the nature of the complications), but it's not rude or disruptive for the other players to chat amongst themselves while waiting for the main action to kick in. If the decker wanted to do a "pre-run" info grab, he'd be in the same boat, and I'd be fine with that.
But the moment the run proper starts, the game shifts into "adventurer mode". Mages don't suddenly decide to skip off to the metaplanes, riggers should stick to one or two "primary drones", and otherwise the whole party should stick together in some sense or another. Leaving the decker in a room to do matrix overwatch means that the one game has effectively become two, at the very time you want to keep the attention firmly focused on the characters as a group. And while mages and one-drone riggers can stay fairly effective in party-mode, the whole point of deckers seems to be to split off, either forcing the tension of the run to break or else leaving the other characters out of a climatic moment. To follow the mage analogy, it's like saying that the group gets the mage to the proper mystical site, and he engages in astral combat there. All well and good for a movie, not for an RPG where the rest of the party twiddles their thumbs.
I've done two sessions with a player as a decker, and my solution was to switch between characters so that no one is left out. Even if the timelines don't line up exactly, I pull everything back together.
For example we have:
Despite the difference in time, location, and purpose, I'll run all three at the same time (if possible). I'll switch between sections almost like scenes in a movie. I'll try to pick a point where one player wants to think about what to do and I'll switch to the next person. The hard part about it is pulling everything back together. But in that case, just have them meet up again anytime on Wednesday and you're fine to have everyone begin to compare notes and plan.
The thing that breaks this is if all of the other players rely on the decker to get their information off of the matrix and decide not to do any legwork. Then you're left with bored players and a not-bored decker, but that's really their own fault now isn't it
For an estimate on time, I think it takes about 10 - 15 minutes for a matrix run so far. We haven't gotten into major combat yet, and he hasn't had to perform any overwatch operations, either.
-- Dashifen --
For example we have:
- Decker performing datasteal, Monday @ 2:00am
- Stealthy type breaking into facility to size up guards @ Tuesday, 6:00pm
- Face shopping for equipment @ Tuesday, 1:00pm
- Stree-Sam drinking in bar trying to get info off of the streets @ Tuesday 9:00pm
Despite the difference in time, location, and purpose, I'll run all three at the same time (if possible). I'll switch between sections almost like scenes in a movie. I'll try to pick a point where one player wants to think about what to do and I'll switch to the next person. The hard part about it is pulling everything back together. But in that case, just have them meet up again anytime on Wednesday and you're fine to have everyone begin to compare notes and plan.
The thing that breaks this is if all of the other players rely on the decker to get their information off of the matrix and decide not to do any legwork. Then you're left with bored players and a not-bored decker, but that's really their own fault now isn't it
For an estimate on time, I think it takes about 10 - 15 minutes for a matrix run so far. We haven't gotten into major combat yet, and he hasn't had to perform any overwatch operations, either.
-- Dashifen --
I really liked the way Stephen Kenson dealt with this problem in Ragnarock. The decker, rigger and mage were doing their surveillance and info gathering, and the two muscle guys were reduced to going out for coffee and watching TV.
In playing time, using SR3 rules, breaking into a well guarded host and subverting the security should not take more than 10 minutes, success, fail or traced home and blown to hell by a gunship hovering outside your window. I did a pay-data run last night, and it took 6 dice rolls. I bailed once a passive alert was triggered, before I got everything I was after, or it may have ended up at 10 or 12 rolls <gasp>.
In playing time, using SR3 rules, breaking into a well guarded host and subverting the security should not take more than 10 minutes, success, fail or traced home and blown to hell by a gunship hovering outside your window. I did a pay-data run last night, and it took 6 dice rolls. I bailed once a passive alert was triggered, before I got everything I was after, or it may have ended up at 10 or 12 rolls <gasp>.
Overwatch tends to be done in realtime, with the decker lurking untill he needs to open a door etc. So it shouldnt be a problem or break suspence. But thats just my opinion
You come to a locked door "Spaz, Grid 3, access tunnel 14, door 5"
Spaz decks into the door system and opens it.
Ta Da.....
You come to a locked door "Spaz, Grid 3, access tunnel 14, door 5"
Spaz decks into the door system and opens it.
Ta Da.....
we dont use matrix rules at all but that is going to change because i got now a sunday decker and im going to DM the next couple runs witch are going to introduce the rules wholely at other players too.
mostly we have been afraid about the time eating side of decking but after comments about that it deos not take that long...
mostly we have been afraid about the time eating side of decking but after comments about that it deos not take that long...
| QUOTE (BlackSmith) |
| mostly we have been afraid about the time eating side of decking but after comments about that it deos not take that long... |
Note that to begin with it'll still take up a while until you guys are familiar with the rules and the tricks. To avoid constantly looking things up I strongly suggest using the charts at the back of "Matrix". They cut down immensely on reseach time.
| QUOTE (Synner) | ||
Note that to begin with it'll still take up a while until you guys are familiar with the rules and the tricks. To avoid constantly looking things up I strongly suggest using the charts at the back of "Matrix". They cut down immensely on reseach time. |
I would also suggest generating security information before the run and making notes. That way you can focus on the IC that your decker will encounter and leave the rest of the IC for the next run.
-- Dash --
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