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ElFenrir
I hope im not the only person who had/has this dilemma.

I'm looking over a bunch of my character sheets, and while all the characters are very different...im finding more and more have the same crap on their equipment sheets. Now, I don't mean basic stuff like cellphones(anyone will have one unless they were raised in a tree or have Severe Allergy: People), medkits(anyone with half a brain in a dangerous line of work will have one), flashlights, etc.

But when it comes to armor, weapons, spells...why is it i find myself taking the same crap?

When i create a character, i get the framework in mind first(race, 'occupation', general outlook), and begin from there. I get a bit more background fleshed out so i can better place their skills and attributes.

But when it comes time for the other stuff...I find myself, for example, when picking pistols, writing 'Ares Predator 1-3' for the heavy pistol, the walther PB or FIchetti Security for a light(damn concealable!), the tried and true Ingram Valiant for the SMG...arg!

I realized this real good when i was designing a hermetic mage(black magician...not blood/sacrifice, but more traditional Satanist type), and I jotted 'Heal' on the sheet. Thinking about his personality, he wouldn't have this one(yet...he might realize it's good to have after a near magic loss check from people prodding him trying to heal him), but he wouldn't have it at the start. SO i nixed it for something more fitting. This is when i looked over the sheets and found, wow, where did my creativity in choosing some of the tools of the trade dwindle? There are so friggin many weapons/armor/spells/vehicles to choose from! (I say vehicles because I have jotted down 'Land Rover Van' far too often for riggers....)

Again, i hope i'm not the only one here. I am taking attempts to remedy this by fleshing more character out BEFORE choosing the gear...perhaps then some more variety can come about.

Of course, sometimes a good piece of gear is a good piece of gear...a Secure Jacket is good no matter what, and if I were to use a shotgun for a heavy piece of artilerry that Enfield with 50 drum attatchment is certainly a good choice.

But hell, I can actually say I am getting sick of the Ares Predator! It's good, yes, it's useful, yes, it makes sense, yes, but it's just boring!

Qillin
yeah i think as you play more and more with more and more characters you find out what is the best of the best of the best of whats out there and tend to pick that stuff up from the start rather then just picking some crappy weapon and having to get a better one later. i seem to be using the heave p colt for all my characters these days along with a sec long coat. I think this just happens and all you can do it get another bk of weapons hehe. wheres cc-2 darn it ;o)~
Nyxll
I think it all comes down to your motivation and style of playing. Every munchkin will have a pather assault canon toting mage, while the roleplayer might have a knife.
You do not seem to be in the munchkin stereotype, but the truth is ... professionals will all use the same tools. Look for example street racers. The most common car is the honda civic. It is easy to pimp out, and there are a tonne of parts for it.

Construction contractors use ford trucks. Why? because they are rugget and the best tool for the job. (I am not trying to start a brand war here). Painters use minivans, etc. A rigger is someone that is paid to move people around... they have a purpose. If they do not have the tool to do they job, they will not get the job.

Law agencies around the country all use the same suppliers, glok for pistols, same vest suppliers. Why? because they pick the best. Also the price is great for what you get.

Runners are the same. They are the .01% of the population that do what they do. If I was a merc or mage that needed to buy one... I am going to look for the best tool for the job. Think of a story line and why they have it. If you are really into roleplaying, try taking something else, and then pick a goal and work towards it in the game.

You could always use other resources like plastic warriors for other ideas. If all your characters were carrying sniper rifles with apds or a panther assault cannon... then you would have cause for worry.
Modesitt
I've had your exact problem in the past. Here's how I escaped:

Open up a book and start going through an equipment chapter. Ask yourself as you look at every single piece of equipment "How is THIS better than everything else in the game at some particular role?"

Let's start with one example you gave - Heavy Pistols. Why might a character use other heavy pistols from the core book?


Ares Viper Slivergun: <CENSORED>
Browning Max Power: Really, when was the last time you had to reload a gun mid-run? It's pretty damned unusual for most people, so why do you care that the AP has 5 more rounds?
Remington Roomsweeper: It's conceal 6, it's a pistol, and it can use the special shotgun rounds. You really can sweep a room with this bad boy if you load it with shot rounds.
Ruger Super Warhawk: Only 10M pistol in the game, useful for hardened armor puncturing.
CC -
Browning Ultra Power: No.
Cavalier Deputy: This is the cheapest heavy pistol in the game.
Colt Manhunter: It can't mount a silencer, so it can go into a corner and cry.
Elchiro Hatamoto II: I'd use one - If a PC could start with one.
FN 5-7C: Useless POS.
Morrissey Alta/Elite: You'd use these for the same reason: They are the ONLY heavy pistols in the game with underbarrel mounted laser sights. IME, they're the pistols of choice for mages or other non-cybered types.
Ruger Thunderbolt: I had a char who kept one in his glove box in case a cop tried to give him a ticket.
Savelette Guardian: Troll stopper.
WW Infiltrator: It's immune to MADs, YOU figure out what this is for.

Repeat this exercise for other pieces of equipment. Some guns are just completely useless and exist solely to be used when the GM wants to put the kid gloves on. Remember - Sometimes the only reason you use the same things is that you've always used those things. Broaden your horizons.
ElFenrir
You do make some very good points. Of course, you pick the best tool for the job. Many musicians I know play Jackson or ESP guitars...and if they don't, they end up switching. Why? Jackson and ESP make damn good guitars, and offer endorsements at that. I guess you can look at it that way too...


Heh, when you mentioned the cannon, I do have one merc character who is specialized in heavy weaponry, for those groups who really need one. He's this eastern european fellow who insists on having all the stuff from around that area. Rather than the panther cannon I took the one Russian made heavy machinegun. Does it still pack as much bang as the cannon? Enough. grinbig.gif But as tempting as that big hunk of metal was i held out on it. But, the HMG works just as well.

I mean, there are some guns that are just crap. I'm not going to take a streetline special over the Colt American for a small concealable weapon, unless for some reason that character's dead great grandfather smuggled the streetline out of a prison camp in a place where the sun don't shine[/pulp fiction], and then I might have qualms of using it wink.gif

I must say tho in choosing some gear I did see some other good stuff that still is useful. The Nissan Holden Brumby seems to be a good, cost efficent offroad vehicle for the rigger types(with some nice mod room), and the Colt Manhunter is a dandy little heavy pistol. EDIT: Oh, forgot the silencer thing. DOH!

Lately i've still been creating a sammie who has some skills in pistol and shotgun b/r, which will open up new realms once the game begins. I'm thinking of giving him the little catch of having the revolver preference...will use other stuff, but prefers revolvers for his pistols...since the CC has some nice new revolvers now(before it seems the Warhawk was the only choice, thus limiting the revolver fans).
Qillin
does everyone have a silencer on their guns?
it does come standard with a laser sight and has a nice clip it works wonders.
ElFenrir
Well, that goes back to the initial 'some equipment is just necessary'. A non silenced gun on a covert run=dead runners.

It's not as much the little geegaws that have me bored(silencers, supressers, concealable holsters, phones and computers), like I said, it's more the bigger gear like the vehicles and the weapons. I do love the addition of some of the stuff tho, like the melee weapons...when they added the mace in I was in raptures, as with the Kris. Sure the Kris isn't a fineblade long knife but damn it looks cool. And the mace? Dunno what my affections with the things are but on some characters they just loook class.

I like the idea of combing thru some of the gear tho and seeing 'now, WHY would i take this over this?' And the 'censored' comment with the Ares Viper...well, I think I can fill in the response there....grinbig.gif
sanctusmortis
Yes, everyone has silencers or suppressors. Simply because, nobody likes hearing security come simply because they shot a lock or somesuch. It's the standard tool of most people in the killing business, including every spec ops unit ever.

I always find myself with a pair of Smartguns, a SPAS-22 and a shedload of ammo. No katana though...
Qillin
well i guess that my characters just don't go around firing his colt for no reason and if he does fire it he is almost sure that no one will hear him or there is no choice and he will be ready when more people come. thought we don't normally run aka normal runs i guess.

And with other members of my group carrying bigger loader guns i guess he might not feel he needs one. as for doors, thats what skills are for or a good boot.
ElFenrir
One thing I also find myself doing with gear(not with every character, but with more weapons oriented ones), is after i look over the list i find i have enough to start a small gun store. While some folks i play have but one gun and/or melee weapon each, i have a couple that have copious amounts. A couple LPs, HPs, an MP maybe, and then a couple of the bigger things(if they have 'em), plus some melee(if applicable).

However, when a GM asks why the armory, they do have uses...and I found spashing extra nuyen for extra weapons can really help.

A. You lose one/more. Getting guns/weapons without SINs takes time you might not have. Good to have backup.

B. Variety. Sometimes the character likes to switch it up.

C. Forced variety. Sometimes you need a couple smaller, quieter weapons rather than the big loud ones that come in handy other times.

D. Safehouses don't come with their own weapons. Getting a couple for the sole purpose of stashing them at one can save your...and your teams...hides.

E. Back to the team, if Slagger loses his gun/weapon...'Sok, chummer, I got a couple extra. If you can use 'em, go for it. Just please return it in one piece...'

The Weapons Specialist in the BBB is a good example, I think she had about 10 or 11 different ones.

Of course, not every street shaman is gonna have this.

Same can go for riggers(multiple vehicles...a heavy weapons platform, a transport vehicle, a speed machine, and a couple safehouse machines), tho it's really cost prohibitive for them...unless their backups are pretty bare bones. For deckers, I found sadly it's nearly impossible to have a 'back up deck', unless it's one of the uber low end ones with the super basic programs...even then it's tough.


Cynic project
This is something that pisses me off,is the idea that just because the books only give one name of an item players assume that only one corps makes said items. Take Decks, I am sure novatech makes all end of cyberdecks. I am sure that SK makes a gun that maybe "worse" or "better" than the ares predator, but not enough so to change the game mechanics of it.
Edward
In rigger 3 it actually gives alternat models that are functionally the same,

Edward
Catsnightmare
Which I thought was pretty damn cool. Some of my characters have favorite brands of cars/guns/equipment that they almost always stick with when they buy gear.

Ace of Spades, my sorceror char had a liking to Ford cars, had an Americar as his everyday ride connected to his SIN, and a Mustang Turbo (aka Honda-GM 3220) kept in a secret garage as his shadowrunning vehicle.

Brick the physad loved his Remingtons. Had the clip-fed model of the Roomsweeper used in Combat Biking called the Trailblazer, and his Remington 990 for when the shit was expected to hit the fan.



FrostyNSO
I always pick up the "Saab 10-6" rather than the Toyota Elite. I liked that aspect of R3 (the "similar models")

For some reason, I've always picked up the Browning pistols with some extra mods rather than go with the ol' Predator. More expensive, yes...but hey, I gotta have my Max-Power

langolas
Every character a guy I used to play with always , and I mean ALWAYS carried an Ares Slivergun. From mages to deckers to samis. He just liked the raw power and how it pretty much ignored armor. I hate the things now for that reason.

Now can anyone actually explain to me how hardened military armor can still be penetrated by this thing? I never really looked into it, but it didn't make much sense to me.
FrostyNSO
ummmm....it cant
Angelone
Umm... against the slivergun ballistic armor is more effective (doubled?) don't know how much off the top of my head, but flechete ammo is only useful against unarmed opponenents. How ofter do you run into those?

I find I used to get the same type stuff all the time as well. Our GM allowed us to start getting stuff out of the Chromebook conversions from Cyberpunk 2020 and other Plastic Warrior stuff and now there's so much stuff it's not a problem.
SpasticTeapot
A Slivergun is pretty much useless against armor, if I'm not mistaken. They're really only effective against unarmored targets, and useless vs. trolls.

If I were to create a rigger (and had me for a GM), I'd give him B/R car 6 and Aptitude: B/R car. Start him out with little other than a VCR-3, some tools, some contacts at which broken cars can be found, and a gun. As the PC accumulates nuyen, he or she can then build their rig from the ground up, starting with (for example) an old station wagon chassis, adding a disproportionately large engine and beefy transmission, throwing on a custom-made (and highly armored) exterior, some bench seats, and the obligatory assault cannon.
Why is this approach good for the GM? Simple: it makes the player actually try to roleplay. He or she will be looking for useful parts at every moment of the day, and the GM can create entire side-missions revolving around the PC's need to find someone to create a serial fiber optic to paralell induction converter for the weapons system. It also keeps a rigger character from starting out the game with an impenetrable fortress, and makes him or her actually start out as a relatively weak character.
toturi
Perhaps he's talking about the FAQ, call shot to bypass thing.
Edward
QUOTE (SpasticTeapot)
A Slivergun is pretty much useless against armor, if I'm not mistaken. They're really only effective against unarmored targets, and useless vs. trolls.

If I were to create a rigger (and had me for a GM), I'd give him B/R car 6 and Aptitude: B/R car. Start him out with little other than a VCR-3, some tools, some contacts at which broken cars can be found, and a gun. As the PC accumulates nuyen, he or she can then build their rig from the ground up, starting with (for example) an old station wagon chassis, adding a disproportionately large engine and beefy transmission, throwing on a custom-made (and highly armored) exterior, some bench seats, and the obligatory assault cannon.
Why is this approach good for the GM? Simple: it makes the player actually try to roleplay. He or she will be looking for useful parts at every moment of the day, and the GM can create entire side-missions revolving around the PC's need to find someone to create a serial fiber optic to paralell induction converter for the weapons system. It also keeps a rigger character from starting out the game with an impenetrable fortress, and makes him or her actually start out as a relatively weak character.

Although on a flavour level I like what youíre suggesting the rules for working on vehicles donít work that well if you start doing that.

I did consider playing a rigger with VCR3 command vehicle and RCD6 with all the electronic warfare trimmings, take as a knowledge skill Seattle security rigger assets (who in Seattle is ruing what type of security drone) and migi myself whatever I needed for the first job during legwork, in an unusual rigger characteristic I place no value on my drones and will happily send them on kamikaze runs because they cost me nothing.

Edward
DrJest
...uh oh... AVS Dikoted Ally Spirit warning... I think he may have dikoted the flechettes...

The thing I found about weapons is how many I'd acquired over my career (350 karma character). Even as a mage, I still tended to use guns a lot - no drain - and there's a tendency to grab an already loaded gun from a corpse if you're getting low on ammo, or if it's an interesting toy (I still treasure one my GM came up with, the Ares Enforcer, a carbine-size assault rifle with an underbarrel narcoject launcher designed for the law enforcement/security market; it flopped after a short run, but I took one off a sec guard who still had his). If you're still carrying the thing when you get home, chuck it in the cupboard. After a few runs, maybe look into some decent storage for all these spares. And so it goes, until 350 karma later I suddenly realised that what I jokingly called my armoury really was. I could have outfitted a decent sized gang if necessary.
ElFenrir
I actually plan on upping my sammie's weapon BR skills, so later on in the game(well, when it starts, we are still in the planning and creation stages here for this particular one), I can just dissasemble old guns and assemble new ones with whatever customizations I want. I dunno just how much a shop can handle(i'm not melting the metal down or anything), but I guess this would be viable. Nothing says comfy more than a fully customized gun, sword, car, deck, or whatnot. I have to crack the CC again(havn't read it in awhile and don't have it here with me, i'll prolly just buy a new one, I didn't know the one shop here has ALL kinds of SR books, from 1st to 3rd ed) to get all the firearm creation rules down but at least that won't come til later on. Right now the B/R skills are just at 3 each, enough for some tweaking but not enough to build a gun from just a pile of parts.

But man, when playing a rigger, after reading rigger 3 my head was spinning from all the options. I must say I got over the rigger 'equipment blues' REAL fast.

I really havn't read into the whole decker customization thing yet. I can only imagine how much, and how long, THAT would take. The only decker I made I think got played once before the campaign folded, and I just took a stock deck for that one.

QUOTE
...uh oh... AVS Dikoted Ally Spirit warning... I think he may have dikoted the flechettes..


rotfl.gif

Heh, Dikote is one of those love/hate things with me. All in all, I'm not against it, some of my melee using chars usually have a dikote weapon or 2(but not ALL of them), but I can see where the pain comes from, cos I have GMd dikoted PCs before. But our groups allow it. Of course, what's good for the PCs is good for the opposition... grinbig.gif
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