Ok, been looking for it for a while, and for some reason, I just can't find what I'm looking for. My book-fu has failed.
Where the hell are the rules for dodging against auto fire, shot guns, and area elemental effects. Obviously it has to be harder than a normal pistol shot, but I can't find the friggin page. A page number , or even better, a quick over view would be much appreciated.
Full Version: Trying to find proper dodge rules
page 113 in the core book.
standard target number of 4.
+1 per 3 rounds in a burst, +1 per meter of shotgun spread, +damage mods.
+damage mods only for dodging AoEs. weird, neh?
standard target number of 4.
+1 per 3 rounds in a burst, +1 per meter of shotgun spread, +damage mods.
+damage mods only for dodging AoEs. weird, neh?
thanks loller, can't believe I couldn't find that.
AoE seems silly. ANything modifiers on grenades, or jsut assumed it can't be dodged?
AoE seems silly. ANything modifiers on grenades, or jsut assumed it can't be dodged?
I want to say there's a rule somewhere saying the GM should modify the TN for dodging AOE stuff (be it grenade or spell) based on what cover is available, or something like that. I beleive +2 is the "default" dodge TN modifier.
I can't think of where it is right now, and I can't dig through books to find it (I'm at work, they'd get mad if I hauled in my bookbag full of RPG and/or wargaming stuff) -- but I've got a half-remembered gut feeling of a default +2 TN mod.
I can't think of where it is right now, and I can't dig through books to find it (I'm at work, they'd get mad if I hauled in my bookbag full of RPG and/or wargaming stuff) -- but I've got a half-remembered gut feeling of a default +2 TN mod.
No book in front of me, but I believe it says that dodge tests can be modified by the GM (no set in stone number) for confined areas. I also think there are times where you can not dodge. I'll have to double check. The 2 places to look are the SR3 combat section and they may say something about it in the CC under the Athletics Dodge test as well.
| QUOTE |
| I want to say there's a rule somewhere saying the GM should modify the TN for dodging AOE stuff (be it grenade or spell) based on what cover is available, or something like that. I beleive +2 is the "default" dodge TN modifier. I can't think of where it is right now, and I can't dig through books to find it (I'm at work, they'd get mad if I hauled in my bookbag full of RPG and/or wargaming stuff) -- but I've got a half-remembered gut feeling of a default +2 TN mod. |
i don't recall such a rule, but you may be right. i usually just have everyone make a reaction test, and allow those who succeed to dive behind any cover that's within their movement range for that combat phase.
I tend to rule that each success on dodge tests against AoE stuff gets you one meter further from ground zero, but I've been using it for so long that I don't even remember if it has any basis in canon.
~J
~J
We follow the rough guidelines in the Shadowrun FAQ, adding to the Dodge TN for AE.
Our houserules are:
For a basic explosion, add the square root of the power of the blast to the Dodge TN.
If you have cover between yourself and the blast, you can add dice equal to 1/2 your cover modifier (round up) to your body test to resist damage (similar to shotgun choke rules for people standing in the path of the shot)
Then subtract an amount from the dodge TN depending on how far away you are from the centre of the blast.
to determine TN mod for how far away you are, subtract 1 for every 1/4 blast radius you are away from the ground zero. The dodge TN never goes below 4.
So the poor sap at ground zero with a 16M grenade going off between his legs has a dodge TN of 8: base TN + 4 (square root of 16, the power of the grenade).
However, his buddy has taken full cover behind a desk 12 m away. His base dodge = 4 + 4 (square root of 16, the power of the grenade). He gets two extra dice for damage resistance from the cover (full cover = Cover modifier of 4, divide by two, round up).
He is 12m away from the centre of the blast, or 3/4 of the blast radius, so he gets a dodge TN mod of -3. 8-5 - his final dodge TN is 5.
This does not apply to magical attacks - we feel they fill the volume evenly, being equally damaging at the edge of the spell as it is at the centre.
Another way to simplify is to just use the square root of the power of the blast you would normally roll your armor against for damage resistance, round up. i.e., 12M away from a 16M blast, with power reduction of -1m , would be a 4M, the square of that is 2, to add to your base dodge of 4.
Our houserules are:
For a basic explosion, add the square root of the power of the blast to the Dodge TN.
If you have cover between yourself and the blast, you can add dice equal to 1/2 your cover modifier (round up) to your body test to resist damage (similar to shotgun choke rules for people standing in the path of the shot)
Then subtract an amount from the dodge TN depending on how far away you are from the centre of the blast.
to determine TN mod for how far away you are, subtract 1 for every 1/4 blast radius you are away from the ground zero. The dodge TN never goes below 4.
So the poor sap at ground zero with a 16M grenade going off between his legs has a dodge TN of 8: base TN + 4 (square root of 16, the power of the grenade).
However, his buddy has taken full cover behind a desk 12 m away. His base dodge = 4 + 4 (square root of 16, the power of the grenade). He gets two extra dice for damage resistance from the cover (full cover = Cover modifier of 4, divide by two, round up).
He is 12m away from the centre of the blast, or 3/4 of the blast radius, so he gets a dodge TN mod of -3. 8-5 - his final dodge TN is 5.
This does not apply to magical attacks - we feel they fill the volume evenly, being equally damaging at the edge of the spell as it is at the centre.
Another way to simplify is to just use the square root of the power of the blast you would normally roll your armor against for damage resistance, round up. i.e., 12M away from a 16M blast, with power reduction of -1m , would be a 4M, the square of that is 2, to add to your base dodge of 4.
The oh-so-authoritative Shadowrun FAQ said something about dodging grenades, but that's really not sensible if you think about it. It dosen't matter if you duck, hop to the right, or drop to the ground. Unless you have something solid shielding you from the shrapnel, you'll still probably be hit.
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jun 26 2005, 06:55 PM) |
| The oh-so-authoritative Shadowrun FAQ said something about dodging grenades, but that's really not sensible if you think about it. |
There's really nothing sensible about dodging bullets either... dodging is a game mechanic that allows for survivability and game balance... otherwise your PCs will be going through characters almost as fast as NPCs go through bullets and grenades.
We've tried a few different mechanics, but boiled them down to speed up gameplay.
I believe the dodge TN for area effects should be higher than the base TN 4 - hence the houserules - that give bonus damage resistance dice for having cover between you and the blast, and the much higher dodge number for blast power.
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) |
| The oh-so-authoritative Shadowrun FAQ said something about dodging grenades, but that's really not sensible if you think about it. It dosen't matter if you duck, hop to the right, or drop to the ground. Unless you have something solid shielding you from the shrapnel, you'll still probably be hit. |
Yeah, but if you drop to the ground fast enough and in the right place, you'll get hit by a lot less shrapnel.
If you're standing up right next to the grenade, you're going to get blasted by a heck of a lot of the shrapnel; if you manage to move 5 yards and drop to the ground, the angle of the blast is such that you'll get hit by very little by comparison.
This is a big reason why bouncing mines are so nasty; they bounce a meter or two into the air, then blast you -- because they're above you, just dropping to the ground provides zero protection.
Hey, since doging involves movement, should making a dodge test allow a player to move a short distance right then? Like, for every die you spend on dodging, you can move half a meter, allowing players to also use the dodge test to take cover against the next attack. It just seems unrealistic that dodging doesn't actually move the character at all, as if he's just limboing under the bullets like in The Matrix.
Dodging seems to be more of a "he's going to shoot you, move" thing. That's why it can run out. You jump roll and sprawl to avoid guy #1, and then #2 caps you while you pick yourself up.
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