It disheartens me to see players using resources to purchase spell points at character generation. 25000/point is harsh. There are so many other uses for the priority or the resources. I can see it in a few instances, like needed to attain a certain build, but not just to fill out a spell list.

If the game allows for initiation, which would need house ruled otherwise, why not design the character with a little foresight? After initiating the first time, the character has access to the metaplanes and can quest for dirt cheap spells.

I still give players 35 points each for adepts and full magicians. If an adept bitches, I just remind him he didn't put 4 or A into the magic slot.

Heh. Here I don't even bother with a mage unless I can purchase more at chargen. 25 is weak.

Maybe I was sounding like the old guy down the street yelling at kids to stay off his lawn, but...

Say you have a priority A shaman with Charisma 3, Resources B (400K). The next increment of resources is only 90K, and spell points cost 25K, so dropping down a resource level costs a potential 12 spell points. During play, spell points equal karma points.

Raising Charisma from 5 to 6 usually costs 12 karma, or the exact number of spell points given up. However by dropping starting resources a level and raising the Attribute priority a level the player gains 3 attribute points for his character. He could raise Charisma from 3 to 6. During play it would cost 30 (8 + 10 + 12) karma to do so.

During play, the player could have the character join a group for 3 karma, Initiate with an oath ordeal for 9 karma, and astral quest for spells at a moderate quest rating of 4 to learn force 5 spells. For the balance of the 30 karma the initiate could learn 18 force 5 spells.

It also alleviates the problem of how the character knows spells on his list. During play, you are learning the ones you need. During chargen, they should be spells that fit the background, that hopefully can be useful during play.

I give out 35 as well, because that limited of a spell list just sucks compared to how well equipped a street sam can start out (but let's not get in to that arguement again please). It's a little bit easier to get more if you a) don't much care about your skills and can move more points around b) use priotites and aren't a metahuman. Other wise, your stuck with what you've got.

As a side note, what rules do you use for initiating at character gen? We've been starting of a few games at slightly higher than normal levels (135-150 BP), but same skill cap and attribute cap. Just to catch new characters up a bit with more seasoned runners ('cuase being the new guy in a group with Beta ware and ally spirits just sucks). What we've been doing so far is charging 3 BP / grade. No one's tried to cheap it so far and out 30 points in so it's been working ok. I think the highest anyone went is grade 3. Thoughts?

I find 25 plenty.

A couple of attack spells, heal, armour, reflexes, invisibility and a bundle of low force exclusive spells for flavour.

What moor do you need at char gen, yes it leaves me wanting more but there needs to be something to get after char gen

Edward

25k per spell point is straight up rediculous expensive in all but the rarest cases.

Keep in mind that each four points at 25k nuyen is roughly the equivelent of 1 level of a power focus. It's a no-brainer.

It depends on what kind of build you are working with, and what kind of magical goodies you are getting. For example, for a combat-oriented sorcerer, I would probably spend 375,000 Nuyen to get his starting spell points up to 50, then 360,000 to get a Force: 6 Specific Spell Focus (usually either manabolt or stunball), a Force: 5 Sustaining Focus for Improved Invisibility, and a Force: 1 Sustaining Focus for Increase Reflexes +3 Dice. And that still leaves plenty left for other contacts and gear.

For full mages, you get less for the 400,000. It is worth taking if you are a hermetic mage, because you need it for all of your other gear (libraries, summoning materials, etc.), so you might as well get some extra spell points out of the deal, too. My shamans, though, tend to start out with low resources - they only need a shamanic lodge, which is cheap, and the higher skills and Attributes are much more cost-effective than a few extra spell points.

For campaigns where the GM wants more spells with a less cumbersome method of gaining additional spellpoints, I would heartily recommend using BeCKS for character generation. It lets players buy spell points and contacts separately from resources.

Is the 35 spell point for Full Magicians pretty balanced you find, to anyone who uses it? I'd consider it myself.

Tho I have gotten by with 25 spell points...as said, a few of the non limited spells like Heal, Manabolt or Stealth, and the small bundle of fetish or exclusive limited spells.

Heh, of course we could always think back in the day when you couldn't get the spell points w/o the use of the Companion and Edges and Flaws(allergies aside, humans didn't get them from the main book)...and Resources and Spell Points were combined...wanna play a backwoods shaman with 5,000 nuyen? Enjoy your 15 points....

Oh, i meant extra spell points. In the SR1 and 2 BBBs, there was no method, aside from metahuman allergy, for getting addition SP at chargen...that i remember anyway. What ya got at chargen was what ya got until you started getting more later.

With the Companion you could take extra spell points as edges or buy them with BP if you used that method.

I consider 35 points at CG balanced, but I don't allow CG initiation either.

I mean, you used to get 50 points for a mage if you wanted. While some spells were combined, and some eliminated, 35 still isn't too bad. I frown as a GM on someone taking all Force 5 and 6 spells out of CG though.

I still find that the combat bunnies outperform magicians on a general basis right out of CG, even with 35 points.

I never allowed chargen Initation either...just a lil too much. We usually play slightly more powerful out of the box as well(we ignore availability...but you need good reasons to have said gear....and we have good players so no one really lets this get out of hand suprisingly), but mages can still be really friggin good out of the box.

I think I'll give a try to the 'all mages get 35' rule, I mean, you ARE blowing your top priority on magic. I say 'blowing' loosely of course cos Magicians are awesome, and later on they become truely scary, but ya know what i mean.