ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 12:10 AM
Okay, I'm trying to make a rigger character. The problem is, I don't really know how.
So far, she's an Elf with the following stats and skills:
Body 3
Quickness 6
Strength 2
Charisma 6
Inteligence 6
Willpower 4
Skills:
Car 6
Rotor Aircraft 6
Rotor Aircraft B/R 6
Electronics 6
Electronics B/R 6
Gunnery 6
Launch weapons 3
Pistols 6
Etiquette 6
Knowledge skills are:
Background:
Rotor Aircraft 4
Fixed Wing 3
Vector-Thrust 3
NAN Border Patrol Tactics 6
Prostitution rackets 4
Smuggler Havens 3
Smuggling Routes 3
*ahem* 3
Languages are English 6 and Salish 3.
My ware, all Alpha, is a:
Vehicle Control Rig 2
Orientation System
Smartlink II
Datajack
MEmory (60 mps)
Ear dampener
Ear recorder
Eye, Image link
Eye, camera
Eye, flare comp
Maths SPU 3.
I have 571,750
left to spend. What should I get? Work on getting? Anything in super-particular I need? I blew 85,000 on a permanant Luxurious-sized 'lifestyle' with luxury security and Street everything else possible.
Cynic project
Jul 31 2005, 12:51 AM
If you ar using build points I would go human. It would save you 4 build points and if you really want bad karma you can get 5(6) points for it as a flaw.
With those points you could get some skills for driving,or other types of drones.
Modesitt
Jul 31 2005, 03:21 AM
There's a thread just like this over
here. Note that my advice only applies to a pure rigger. Riggers that also want to fill some other role should definitely keep that in mind when reading what I write.
What generation system are you using? I tried to rebuild your char with 123 point and priority, neither of which makes the math work out.
Race: What the guy before me said. Mechanically, you're not getting anything out of being an elf.
Skills: No Athletics or Stealth? As it looks like you're trying to make some sort of pseudo-rigger-infiltrator char, those are pretty important skills. I'd also be nervous about the lack of negotiation.
Equipment: What rating is the VCR? 1? Most of your vision and ear stuff isn't very synergistic with being a rigger. Virtually all drones can record audio and video.
----
More importantly, what do you want to DO? Do you want to sit back from the team and remotely operate drones? Do you want to just sort of rig on the side and otherwise be a physical infiltrator? Do you want to blow shit up? Do you want to ask your GM the price for neon lights and spinning hubcaps?
ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 05:52 AM
135 point buy.
And yes, I know going Human nets me 10 more build points.
I wanted to play as an Elf for a change, without going the cliche and making a Face or a mage.
Race: Going Human would be, I feel, metagaming my butt off. Besides, I want to be an Elf.
Skills: No, no Athletics or Stealth. The eye and ear recorders and such are pretty much just impulsive buys, something to make her not completely useless outside the van, without risking anyone dragging her out to crack maglocks. Likewise with Pistols 6.
Equipment: It's a VCR 2. I missed typing that.
I originally wanted this character to be able to fly fixed-wing and choppers and VCR and LTA, with varying degrees of proficiency (6, 6, 3, 3), as well as cars 6, but that completely was too many build points. So I scrapped everything but cars and chopper 6, and bought Electronics B/R and rotor-wing B/R.
ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 05:58 AM
Oh yeah. I want to be a drone rigger, but a competent - dangerously so - chopper pilot as well. Am I missing something for those tasks?
ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 03:50 PM
Aiiigh. I just realized I've got less than a day for the game to start, and my character's only half-finished.
The DM's not allowing any custom vehicles before the game starts, but we can customize our vehicles. I have 500,000 or so available, and I need at least the traditional van, some rotor-drones, and hopefully a chopper.
Help? Ideas? What should I look into owning?
toturi
Jul 31 2005, 03:59 PM
Despite the cliches, how about a dwarf? Especially since you want to be a drone rigger. Drone riggers are usually more exposed to dumpshock than other single vehicle riggers. If you are dead set to being an elven rigger, then the best play I can see is that you leverage the Quickness(somehow) for a better Reaction. Another advantage I can see would be to pimp Etiquette and Connected for lots of cheap ass drones, YMMV.
Cynic project
Jul 31 2005, 04:43 PM
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
Race: Going Human would be, I feel, metagaming my butt off. Besides, I want to be an Elf.
|
I hate to break it to you, but you are using out of game knowledge to make your character so you are meta gaming already.
But if you want to play a races that is rarely played a rigger go Troll. I have never seen a Trollish rigger.
But if you are really dead struck on playing a daisy eater. Don't get launch weapon, get a higher will and some edges and flaws. A three point combat skill is nearly pointless.
ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 05:22 PM
Connected?
I am confused, but I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
So far I have Good Looking and Knows it, Vehicle Affinity, and a 4-point Dependant.
Cynic project
Jul 31 2005, 05:28 PM
Connected a 3 or 5 point edge that lets you havebuy or sell items for whole sale prices, if the that prices is better than the street index.
Three points is one way and fives points goes two ways. It's great.
ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 05:43 PM
yeah, it sounds like it. Especially with expensive stuff like a rigger's gear.
But that only covers after-game-start aquisitions. I need stuff to start with. I don't have a clue.
Cynic project
Jul 31 2005, 05:51 PM
Well, as a drone rigger you want at least 3-8 spy type drones, 3-4 drones that can pass for being legal and have light weapons, 1-3 heavy combat drones, and 1-2 drones for jamming and messing around with other riggers and radio shit.
ShadowDragon8685
Jul 31 2005, 05:53 PM
Ummmm. Damn, that's a lot.
I mean, I don't know where to even begin looking for that kind of stuff... x.x
Aku
Jul 31 2005, 06:42 PM
and as the GM for him, i have my own question, we're having this debate on his launch weapons. I say it's un-needed, because as far as i can read it, ANYTHING you attach to a vehicle automagically falls under gunnery, he's argueing it's not so with LW. The only thing that could convince me otherwise, in the BBB, is the line about regardless if its manual or sensory enhanced gunnery.
So can anyone shed some light on this?
Cain
Jul 31 2005, 07:19 PM
For your standard van, I'd suggest a Bulldog model, with transponder library and morphing license plates. That's just required equipment for any shadowrunner's vehicle. I'd also suggest photovoltaic paint, so you can have complete disguises at the flip of a switch.
Trax
Jul 31 2005, 07:47 PM
All weapons on a vehicle is Gunnery.
Angelone
Jul 31 2005, 09:14 PM
| QUOTE (Cain @ Jul 31 2005, 02:19 PM) |
| For your standard van, I'd suggest a Bulldog model, with transponder library and morphing license plates. That's just required equipment for any shadowrunner's vehicle. I'd also suggest photovoltaic paint, so you can have complete disguises at the flip of a switch. |
Can't get a much better starting vehicle like that for a rigger. Other interesting vehicles to get is an RV, like the Ford- Canada Bison. Those things have tons of room, can carry alot, and have good unmodded armor, it's basically a street legal APC. Unfortunately it has an Availibility of 8 so no go for starters if you use the max 6 avail. to start out.
For drones I'd get a Ferret to scout. It's fairly cheap, hard to detect, and has an excellent sensor array. The IWS DLK MK 6 is a great all around drone. It's fairly hard to detect, can mount weapons, a good sensor array, and mechanized arms. Those are the two I usually get when starting out and later on I get Hedgehogs, Steel Lynxs, Wandjinas, and Strato-9s. Firebirds are a good choice if you plan on using Battletech FDDM (which you should).
You unfortunately can't start with helicopter unless your GM is very kind. You want to go this route so I'll tell you right off the bat Wasps and Yellowjackets are junk even their buffed up varients are trash. There's a reason they're so cheap. The Hughes Stallion or Ares Dragon is the way to go helicopter-wise. The Stallion's about half as expensive, but has less bod, load, and CF, but with all the money you save you can mod it something fierce. It's also the most common copter in the world which does wonders for fitting in and finding repair parts.
Go with whatever race you want too they're all good.
EDIT- Oh, and don't do what I did when I made my first rigger and forget to buy a RCD.
Trax
Jul 31 2005, 10:45 PM
You can buy Availability 8, you just can't buy anything with a rating of over 6.
toturi
Aug 1 2005, 01:51 AM
| QUOTE (Aku) |
and as the GM for him, i have my own question, we're having this debate on his launch weapons. I say it's un-needed, because as far as i can read it, ANYTHING you attach to a vehicle automagically falls under gunnery, he's argueing it's not so with LW. The only thing that could convince me otherwise, in the BBB, is the line about regardless if its manual or sensory enhanced gunnery.
So can anyone shed some light on this? |
OK, if you are going by only the SR3 (corerules), gunnery would be the correct answer. However, if you are using the Vehicle-Mounted Rockets, Missiles and Torpedoes under the New Toys section in Rigger 3, then Launch Weapons should be necessary since those weapons follow the standard rules for rockets and missles (p120 SR3) and missle combat (p101 CC). In both sections, only the Launch Weapon skill is referenced. So despite Gunnery being the catch-all skill for vehiclular combat in SR3, Rigger 3 has some rules that may prove to be an exception.
Crusher Bob
Aug 1 2005, 03:34 AM
Also, if you plan to be a drone rigger, decide if you want 1 drone to basically be your 'combat alter ego' where you spend a lot of your time directly controlling the drone, and using your control pool to look after it. Of a fire support drone rigger with several drones running at onces, in captains chair mode.
If you go with the drone alter ego idea, then just get one or two combat drones (steel lynx, a combat rotordrone, something like that) and deck them out.
If you plan to go the captains chair route, keep your combat drones as cheap as you can mange. A AV rocket can easily take out a drone without a rigger controling it, they just don't have the armor to resist.
Deamon_Knight
Aug 1 2005, 03:41 AM
I'm in the same boat as ShadowDragon. I've finally convinced my group to play SR, so I'm getting a chance to play my first character. Since (aside from our DM) I have the best grasp of the rules, I volunteered to play the rigger (and I think they are cool!), but I'm still trying to get a feel for how Riggers work.
So far I have:
Priorities
A: Resources
B: Skills
C: Attributes
D: Dwarf
E:Magic
EDIT: (Yea, I know its Cliche, its my first rigger!)
B: 4 Q: 6 St: 3 Ch: 3 Int: 6 Wil: 6
skill-wise I have:
Pistols 2 (Ares Pred 4)
Gunnery 6
SUT 4
Computers 4
Electronics 5
Car 5
Roto Craft 5
Vtol 5
etiquette Military 3
Cyber:
VCR 2 Alpha 1.5 Essence, 120000
Smartlink-II .5 E 3500
Microvision .1 E 5000
2x Datajacks .4 E 2000
Chipjack .2 E 1000
Chipjack Expert Driver Rating 3 .3 E 15000
Cyber Eyes .2 E 5000
Imagelink .2 E 1600
Lowlight .2 E 3000
Flarecomp .1 2000
(built in)
Thermo .2 E 3000
But now I'm kinda stuck as to what else to buy
Is there any reason I would want cyber radio/scanner when I can just get this and normal gear? Same question on internal GPS or Orientation system, and cyber version of Rigger gear (Deck, IVIS?) Or Bioware, damage compensators maybe?
Not sure what drones to get either, my GM has suggested making a Stealth blimp as for a command vehicle and run drones in with the team, but I'm not sure what drones to get, any advice?
Crusher Bob
Aug 1 2005, 03:48 AM
you got the essence on the VCR wrong. 3 * .8 = 2.4, also you can save a tiny bit of essence buying your smartlink by parts, as you are paying for an image link already. And why 2 datajacks?
Also, you might want some skill in stealth and athletics. Specializing your electronics in electronic warfare (if you are going to use the EW rules) might not bee too bad an idea either.
Modesitt
Aug 1 2005, 03:55 AM
| QUOTE |
| Is there any reason I would want cyber radio/scanner when I can just get this and normal gear? |
No.
With a few exceptions, you never want to take cybernetic versions of stuff you can have externally. Exceptions include some vision enhancements(It's very useful to not need to bolt things to your gun to use it optimally) and a low-rating remote control deck(Emergency backup deck really).
I don't understand the rest of your cyberware choicse either. You're a dwarf and a rigger, why would you want to ruin your natural thermo with inferior cyber eyes and such? It's not like you'll be using any of them very much as a rigger. I know micro-vision is nice and all, but no Elec B/R to go with it?
You have a chipjack, a CED, and x2 datajacks, yet no knowsoft link for either datajack or skillwires. Even if you did have a set of skillwires, skillwires don't work when rigging either. Why not save some nuyen and essence and just buy a knowsoft link for one of your datajacks?
I think the math on your VCR-2 is off. 3*.8 = 2.4.
ShadowDragon8685
Aug 1 2005, 10:10 AM
Well, I made my GMC Bulldog / Rigger Tank. I got a pop-up small turret with an Ingram Valient, a Grand Dragon ATGM, and a white light floodlight.
For drones I went with the reccomended package (by one of my fellow players) of a pair of Steel Lynx, a Lone Star Strato, and a retrans.
The Jopp
Aug 1 2005, 10:23 AM
Hmm, get a car skill, it's ALWAYS useful, and perhaps lowering your B/R skill and/or lowering your Rotorcraft skill - having a skill of six in all of them might be a bit excessive since such skills are awfully high since an above average pilot has a skill of 4 and a good pilot has a skill of 5, a skill of 6 is what is found amongst the REALLY gifted (ok skill 7-9 is possible but damn rare).
For a cheap car (and silly vehicle for the little pirate that resides in all of us) get the following.
Skill: Submarine (say 3)
Skill: Boat (3 here as well)
WW Eurocar (that little european combi RV for 51K) 51000,00
Amphibious Propulsion system 15000,00
Concealed Armour (6) 12000,00
Enviroseal 3300,00
Grid propulsion system 1000,00
Life support (40H) 4800,00
Photovoltic Paint 5000,00
Rigger Adaption 250,00
Runflat Tyres 1000,00
Sensor / Sonar 1 10000,00
Theft Protection V9 11000,00
Removal of 1 Bucket Seat (Still got 4 seats) 0,00
Mini-Turret - Underwater / Surface function (cost?)
-Anti-Air modification (cost?)
-Gyrojet Pistol X3 (Count as BF) 3000,00 (can't cost more)
-Ammo Bin (cost?)
Transponder chip / Morphing Plate (cost?)
Roll Bars (cost?)
Now you have a cheap car/submarine/boat with the Gyrojet pistols as mini-torpedoes that function quite good both on land and at sea - and only for roughly 130K-150K that is immune to basically all small arms ammunition.
If you want you can always dress up like james bond whilst driving it.
Deamon_Knight
Aug 1 2005, 05:57 PM
Maybe its a conceptual problem for me but I need a datajack to connect to the vehicle and a datajack to hook to my RC Deck, correct?
I also thought the CED could only be bought as an accessory for a chipjack.
As for B/R skills, my GM houseruled that I did not need skillwires to use some active skills, esp B/R skills. I made sure we both on the same page with this, then I told him I would just get a CED and a few high rating softs instead of the skills and he had no problem.
As for the Cyber eyes, I thought the mods would be useful if I ever got caught outside my vehicle, (as well as integrating mapdata and orientation system info into my vision) and I was looking at some other cyber at the time so i was trying to save the .5 essence.
Lindt
Aug 1 2005, 07:29 PM
Nitpick. You have rotor craft and vtol? I think you ment Vector thrust. As not all vector thrust craft are actually Vtol.
As a rigger cyber eyes are over rated, for the amount you blew on the cyber implants you can get a body 1 drone with better then that in it. Plus youd still have the natural thermographic vision. Or do the image link and micro vision as retnal mods.
2 Datajacks are nothing major, but consider a small router. Being able to connect a cyber deck into your van via your head has its advantages. But if you have 2 datajacks, dump the chip jack, you all ready have 3 extra holes in your skull.
And what? No build/repair skills? A bold, if costly, move. Being able to patch up a moderate wound on a 50k truck on your own, can save you a ton of money in the long run.
Modesitt
Aug 1 2005, 09:23 PM
| QUOTE |
| Maybe its a conceptual problem for me but I need a datajack to connect to the vehicle and a datajack to hook to my RC Deck, correct? |
You do not need to do that. You can hook yourself up to your RCD and remote control the vehicle. There's no need for a second one.
That's not to say a second can't be useful. There are some perfectly good reasons to have two datajacks, like if you want to deck AND rig at the same time or use more than one RC decks. The latter is a tricky way to mess with someone who plans to jam your signals.
And, sure enough, I checked the rules and it says chipjack. Although given that your GM has said you can use B/R and other mental skills with no wires, I don't think he'll make much of a fuss if you ask if you can use a knowsoft link instead of a chipjack. Ask and see what it happens.
Oh, something I msised before - Etiquette doesn't NEED to be specialized in 3rd, but you can specialize it like any other skill if you want to.
Kagetenshi
Aug 1 2005, 09:44 PM
| QUOTE (Angelone) |
| QUOTE (Cain @ Jul 31 2005, 02:19 PM) | | For your standard van, I'd suggest a Bulldog model, with transponder library and morphing license plates. That's just required equipment for any shadowrunner's vehicle. I'd also suggest photovoltaic paint, so you can have complete disguises at the flip of a switch. |
Can't get a much better starting vehicle like that for a rigger.
|
Roadmaster.
~J
Deamon_Knight
Aug 1 2005, 10:06 PM
I'll check with my GM, I just did think that a CED had to be installed in a Chipjack.
anything else a first time rigger should know?
Kagetenshi
Aug 1 2005, 10:17 PM
Buy encryption. L3 to L5 by taste, then don't worry about any of the MIJI rules other than Jamming again.
~J
Deamon_Knight
Aug 3 2005, 02:40 AM
Quick question:
Anyone know what the rules (and where they are, my Sourcebook Fu is weak today)for price/avail on battletac Master component for an RC deck and Battletac IVIS component.
I can find the cyber version of these in M&M but not the non cyber price.
Thanks
toturi
Aug 3 2005, 04:11 AM
The information can be found on p98 Rigger 3.
Battletac IVIS Master Unit(installed on RC deck) 75000
8/14days
Deamon_Knight
Aug 3 2005, 04:15 AM
Thanks!
Shadow
Aug 3 2005, 04:35 AM
Thought I would post this, it helped me out when I was building a rigger.
Shadows Vehicle creation helper
ShadowDragon8685
Aug 3 2005, 09:33 AM
How might this file type abomination be manipulated?
it looks like you need to go through R3R, or R3, and choose what you want, plopping in the correct numbers along the way.
ShadowDragon8685
Aug 3 2005, 06:43 PM
I coulden't even open the file...
x.x
I wish someone would make a Rigger 3 program in like, Visual Basic.net or something.
I'm (slowly) making one in Flash, and i think to light a fire on my arse, Kage was going to do something in python(?) I finally got over a hurdle, so we'll see how fast it moves once i get moved.
Kagetenshi
Aug 3 2005, 08:46 PM
Yep, writing one in Python. The GUI is the sticking point right now, but hopefully I'll figure Tkinter out soon enough.
~J