Edge2054
Aug 7 2005, 07:37 PM
Looking over Whirling my buddy and myself are wondering if it negates all friends in melee mods, or just the bonuses it gives attackers.
For example: If I'm getting mobbed by three guys and use whirling, they're at a base TN of 4 instead of 2. But am I still sitting at a TN of 7 to hit them, +1 *more* for using whirling myself?
*edited*
Me thinks you are right, sir. TN 4/7 is still better than TN 2/6.
Considering a single friend in melee, that call is harder to make. You are then looking at base TN 3/5 vs. TN 4/6.
No other mods: Reducing his expected successes from 66% to 50% of thrown dice at the cost of half of your own successes is only wise if your opponent is also superior in quality... one might say whirling just makes you die exausted.
Another +1 modifier, ie a vision modifier: Going from TN 6 to TN 7 doesnīt hurt you, but your opponent will be at TN 5 instead of TN 4.
(Iīm to sleepy to analyse other mods, hope I didnīt already make a mistake)
Edge2054
Aug 8 2005, 05:14 AM
Yeah, that's how I'm reading it too. Before my buddy pointed it out I believed that it simply negated all bonuses and penalties, now I'm thinking it only negates the enemies minuses to target number but not your own pluses.
And it is a good thing, too. Anybody should lose a fight against a multitude of trained opponents, whirling around or not.
Slightly related: Did your group ever enforce the "within 1m of combat"-rule for friends in melee? We usually play without exact map, and anyone wishing to partake in melee gets to to so, making strength of number very important.
Edge2054
Aug 8 2005, 10:25 PM
We do enforce that rule. We also use maps and exact movement rates when moving.
Another question that's come to my mind is the hitting multiple targets rule. It seems even more self defeating if they get the friends in melee bonus as soon as you do this. In my mind they shouldn't get the modifiers on the counter attack if you're initiating. I'm thinking that if a character runs up on two security guards that are near each other, taking a swipe at each, the mods would only kick in on their next actions, on the other hand, if it was two guards bum rushing the character, the friends in melee rules would immediately apply.
Any thoughts on this?
We count only the attacked opponent and those who already joined close combat as friend in melee. Barely beeing there is not enough.
Regarding your example:
You attack both guards. Both defend themselves, but donīt have a friend in melee as both didnīt spend their last action on close combat. In later turns you would indeed face the friend in melee mod.
Both guards attack you. First guard doesnīt have a friend in melee, second does (if the first still happens to be around). Delaying action for a simultaneous attack is possible (advisable even).
That said, attacks on multiple opponents donīt happen in our games. Better one enemy down than two merely wounded. I would consider it if they had higher TN-Mods than my char, ie from a previously thrown grenade or spell, AND time was a factor. Ki-Ads may pull it off due to superior numbers in thrown dice, but Iīm not in that camp. (If you intend to try it, give them a chance to burn combat pool first, not/sparingly using your own).
Comments?
Critias
Aug 9 2005, 11:23 AM
| QUOTE |
| That said, attacks on multiple opponents donīt happen in our games. Better one enemy down than two merely wounded. |
Depends. With most of my characters who would ever think of engaging in Melee Combat anyways, they're pretty decent at it (heh). If the enemies I'm considering engaging (with multi-strike, or whatever) seem to only be armed with melee weapons or no weapons at all, I'll go ahead and give on in, and get two or three of them swinging at me, even if my odds of KO'ing them all in one attack are slim.
Why?
So that, even if I don't knock 'em all out, I've then got three yahoos taking swings at me with more TN mods than I've got swinging back -- on their action(s). So the end result will generally end up being a scattering of Serious and Moderate wounds from my action, they swing back on their action, and my counter finishes 'em off. And in the meantime, I'm all tied up in a melee with a handfull of bad guys, which any reasonable GM will consider as some hefty cover mods should any of their unscrupulous comrades try to shoot me.
But, well, yeah. If I can shoot people, I do that instead. It's why God gave us trigger fingers -- but there's nothing wrong with flexing your Melee might every now and then, and buttin' heads.
Dawnshadow
Aug 9 2005, 12:02 PM
We ruled that friends in melee requires the other person to be alive and engaged to get the bonus..
So, if a half dozen goons attack you.. and you kill them, one by one, with the counterattacks, their's no friends in melee modifiers.
If you attack them (typically capped at 3 opponents), then if you don't drop them with the attack, and go on to another opponent, friends in melee does apply.
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