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Astelaron
Is Morgan, from the Secrets of Power series, merely the first AI developed by Renraku or does she become Deus?

What other AI's exist in 2064?

What about humans and other beings that are trapped in the Matrix like Alice?


Thanks in advance for the schooling all you book ninjas and History experts.
Velocity
QUOTE (Astelaron)
Is Morgan, from the Secrets of Power series, merely the first AI developed by Renraku or does she become Deus?

Both. She gets "vivisected" and merged with the Arcology Expert Program: the resulting gestalt became Deus.
Astelaron
Does this occur in a shadowrun novel and which one?

Damn Dodger for not letting her down easy. Who woulda thought the course of the shadowrun universe could be so adversely affected by a bad break up. frown.gif
Sabosect
Actually, Dodger's trying to repair her.
fistandantilus4.0
yeah, but that's how break ups always go. He screws up, then goes and buys flowers.... or gets drunk. At least, in my case.....

I always got drunk though..... hmmmm
Velocity
QUOTE (Astelaron)
Does this occur in a shadowrun novel and which one?

I'm pretty sure it does occur in a novel but I have no idea which one.
CrystalBlue
And there shouldn't be any other AI's living in SR right now. If that were the case, we'd have many more problems than just the Archology.
Velocity
Not necessarily. Deus didn't do what it did out of malice; it created that house of horrors in order to gain freedom. Other AIs might be relatively benign.
Dave
I do believe there is one other AI somewhere out there in the SR universe...

[ Spoiler ]
Demonseed Elite
The information on Morgan's dismantling isn't in a novel, so far as I can remember, but it's in Renraku Arcology: Shutdown. The opening fiction of RA:S involves Dodger trying to repair Morgan while prepping playing Matrix overwatch on a related run.

And yes, there's at least a third AI, Mirage.
Ancient History
I'll be taking this page down in a short while to update it for 4th edition, but check out Echoes of the Crash.
Velocity
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
The information on Morgan's dismantling isn't in a novel, so far as I can remember, but it's in Renraku Arcology: Shutdown. The opening fiction of RA:S involves Dodger trying to repair Morgan while prepping playing Matrix overwatch on a related run.

Thanks, DE--I thought there'd been a novel released before R:AS and that the short fiction therein was a summary of sorts. I'm glad to see I didn't miss any of that story. smile.gif

QUOTE (Sabosect)
Actually, Dodger's trying to repair her.

Is he? I thought that since the purge & merge at the end of Brainscan, he'd written the enterprise off as hopeless. He doesn't comment on the news in Threats 2, does he?
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE (Velocity)
Thanks, DE--I thought there'd been a novel released before R:AS and that the short fiction therein was a summary of sorts. I'm glad to see I didn't miss any of that story.


The novel Technobabel does lead into the events of Deus, but doesn't really cover the Morgan end of things. It covers more of Deus' early infilitration of Renraku, setting the stage for the Arcology shutdown.

QUOTE (Velocity)
Is he? I thought that since the purge & merge at the end of Brainscan, he'd written the enterprise off as hopeless. He doesn't comment on the news in Threats 2, does he?


Post-Brainscan, there aren't many (if any) details on Dodger's work. But you may see more soon. wink.gif
Dashifen
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Post-Brainscan, there aren't many (if any) details on Dodger's work. But you may see more soon. wink.gif

eek.gif I love those little hints that keep getting tossed about
Velocity
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Post-Brainscan, there aren't many (if any) details on Dodger's work. But you may see more soon. wink.gif

Oooh, tease. smile.gif

Speaking of Deus (and slightly off-topic), could it create otaku by itself or could it only 'turn' otaku crated by Deep Resonance or the Dissonance?
blakkie
QUOTE (Velocity @ Aug 17 2005, 08:21 AM)
Speaking of Deus (and slightly off-topic), could it create otaku by itself or could it only 'turn' otaku crated by Deep Resonance or the Dissonance?

Threats 2 suggests that Deus could flat out create them. Seemingly even with older than normal Otaku. But the Deus created ones were only fully functional within Deus' own private network. Once out on the Matrix they immediately began fading.
Ancient History
Deus could create otaku, but most only retained their abilities within the SCIRE.
Demonseed Elite
Yep, what they said. Though his "converted" Whites, who were otaku before they entered the Arcology, retain their abilities just fine outside the Arcology (at least until they begin to Fade, like all otaku).
Velocity
So ka. smile.gif

Astelaron
Has Dodgers or Leonardo's Otaku like abilities began to fade?

I read your Echoes of the Crash AH. It was very informative. Thanks.

Who created the first Otaku? Was it Morgan with Dodger or Deep Resonance?
Ancient History
QUOTE (Astelaron)
Has Dodgers or Leonardo's Otaku like abilities began to fade?

I read your Echoes of the Crash AH. It was very informative. Thanks.

Who created the first Otaku? Was it Morgan with Dodger or Deep Resonance?

Dodger is not an otaku. He's all elf decker, baby.

Leonardo was too damn old to begin with, so in whatever corporate research dungeon Lofwyr has him pinned, he probably still has them.

The first otaku were, to the best of my knowledge, created by the Deep Resonance. The first AI-crafted otaku were created either by Psychotrope or Deus.
Velocity
QUOTE (Astelaron)
Has Dodgers or Leonardo's Otaku like abilities began to fade?
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Leonardo was too damn old to begin with

So what is Leonardo? I haven't read any of the SR fiction, so maybe my question's answered in a novel somewhere. I keep reading references to him in various sourcebooks and the name means nothing to me, other than he's a decker who could smoke Fastjack and seems to have almost singlehandedly given Renraku a boost over its competitors in the 50s.
Astelaron
QUOTE (Ancient History)

Who created the first Otaku? Was it Morgan with Dodger or Deep Resonance? [/QUOTE]
Dodger is not an otaku. He's all elf decker, baby.

On page 201 of Find Your Own Truth Dodger jacks into the matrix to find Morgan without a cyberdeck and later when they attack Spiders network Dodger has more powerful abilities than he ever had with his deck.

Was Doger's computer skill increased from association with an AI or was something more going on?
Ancient History
Ah. Well, Leonardo is an immortal elf. He's a genius with a particular penchant for optical technology and magic. He designed a cyberdeck that you can use by looking at it (something similar to Neal Stephenson's system, I'm guessing). Leo doesn't have a datajack, but he does have an otaku's skills - the Channels - which he can use with his deck.

Leo is sort of fixated on Leonardo da Vinci, and convinces other people he is da Vinci. He managed to penetrate the core CPUs of the Big Eight simutaneously in an attempt to blackmail them, he ended up just making a deal with Renraku (hence their tech increase). Eventually, Lofwyr slapped him down for stealing one of the Big Wyrm's nukes in an attempt to frame the Vatican for covering up a 2,000-year old religious debate. Presumed to be trapped in a sweat shop in Antarctica...Lofwy'rs little version of Not So Happy Toy-Making Elf at the South Pole, ho ho ho.

Oh, yeah, he's also responsible for cleaning up Venice and stopping it from sinking.

Naturally, many, many gamers hate Leo with a passion they normally reserve for Super Physads that knock boots with Hot Elf Grrls.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Astelaron)
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE

Who created the first Otaku?  Was it Morgan with Dodger or Deep Resonance?

Dodger is not an otaku. He's all elf decker, baby.

On page 201 of Find Your Own Truth Dodger jacks into the matrix to find Morgan without a cyberdeck and later when they attack Spiders network Dodger has more powerful abilities than he ever had with his deck.

Was Doger's computer skill increased from association with an AI or was something more going on?

Program carriers, old son. No otaku abilities there. It's what we used to call "Decking Naked" back in 1st Edition. Still an option in many respects.
Velocity
Thanks, AH--as usual, you're the go-to guy for 'trix-truth.

Now this might sound like a stupid question, but why the hate-on for Leonardo? I mean, yes--he's incredibly, obscenely cheesy. Granted. So what? I think David Gavilan/Damien Knight is fromage, so I nixed him in my game. No fuss, no mess, no deep-seated loathing. smile.gif
Jrayjoker
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
yeah, but that's how break ups always go. He screws up, then goes and buys flowers.... or gets drunk. At least, in my case.....

I always got drunk though..... hmmmm

Are you sure you're married?
Jrayjoker
Having just read Tecnobabel, I think I am uniquely qualified to say that:

1. Leonardo is screwed, blued, and tatooed.

2. Lofwyr is a Big Fat Meanie.

and 3. Dodger plays by his own rules and is augmented by Morgan.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Velocity)
Now this might sound like a stupid question, but why the hate-on for Leonardo? I mean, yes--he's incredibly, obscenely cheesy. Granted. So what?

Just a general outgrowth of the "Dammit, humans did important things throughout history, too!" Ever since Alachia was a Nazi and Queen Elizabeth, mad hate-ons have ensued.
Velocity
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Ever since Alachia was a Nazi and Queen Elizabeth

Who what now?

[SEGUE]
You know, say what you will about White Wolf and their maddening pretension, at least they managed to restrain themselves pretty darned well in that regard. Considering that Vampire is a game about immortal kingmakers waging a millennia-old shadow-war, there are very very few "famous" vampires. In fact, part of their design philosophy is that humans drive events and create history; for all of their abilities and influence, vampires are just along for the ride. I always liked that.
[/SEGUE]
Ancient History
QUOTE (Velocity)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Aug 17 2005, 11:16 AM)
Ever since Alachia was a Nazi and Queen Elizabeth

Who what now?

Worlds Without End.

QUOTE
[SEGUE]
You know, say what you will about White Wolf and their maddening pretension, at least they managed to restrain themselves pretty darned well in that regard.  Considering that Vampire is a game about immortal kingmakers waging a millennia-old shadow-war, there are very very few "famous" vampires.  In fact, part of their design philosophy is that humans drive events and create history; for all of their abilities and influence, vampires are just along for the ride.  I always liked that.
[/SEGUE]

Pfft. No, they just ran all of human history behind the scenes. Had at least three renditions of Rasputin, too, as I recall. Hell, Mithras and Baba Yaga don't count? The fall of Rome, hmm? The Punic Wars? Troy?
Velocity
Well, in fairness Rasputin was a bit of an inside joke. He was also supposed to be a changeling and a mage. smile.gif

While Meneleus and Helena were vamps, there's plenty of evidence (in WW canon, that is) to suggest that the actual Trojan War had very little to do with her abduction/rape.

I further submit that Baba Yaga and Mithras (and Enkidu, for that matter), being mythological figures, don't count. The argument goes that these figures existed as legends and stories and the vampires who took their names were simply opportunistic wannabes.

WW fucked the dog with the Punic Wars, IMO.

Rome... hell, you got me with Rome. biggrin.gif As a defense, I would only argue that the decadence and debauchery of a declining Rome was too attractive to the canon writers, who let their imaginations go nuts. I can't really blame them and they produced some decent fiction, but yeah... it ends up making everything after around 200 BC or so the product of undead machinations. Which sucks.
Velocity
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Well, Leonardo is an immortal elf. He's a genius with a particular penchant for optical technology and magic. He designed a cyberdeck that you can use by looking at it (something similar to Neal Stephenson's system, I'm guessing).

By the way... WTF?!
Ancient History
Look, I didn't write it. Go read Black Madonna and judge for yourself.
Velocity
I'll pass, thanks anyway. smile.gif

So what do you think the Deep Resonance is?

Also, is Virtual Realities the only place where Halberstam's Project: Matrix is discussed? I plan to use that project in an upcoming story arc and I'd like as much info on it as possible.
Ancient History
Project: Matrix Born? Well, you first hear about it in Virtual Realities -> Halberstam is raising kids in the Matrix for the psychological benefits of building superdeckers. He next shows up in Threats, but this time he yanks the kids' brains out of their bodies to prevent "rescue" attempts, creating biological knowbots. You can read more about that in Psychotrope. The last we've heard of the good doctor, he's moved on to using otaku brains...no idea how that adds to his BKs' effectiveness yet.
Nyxll
I think deep resonance and dissonance are cyberspace's equivelent of background count and emotions. Poeple talk about being sensitive to the energies of places, etc, I think the same principles are exerted on cyberspace. Some people are just ultra flakey and claim to pick up on things. And of course who will fit the bill better than Otaku. Deckers would not pick up on this because their perception is filtered through a deck.
Velocity
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Project: Matrix Born? Well, you first hear about it in Virtual Realities -> Halberstam is raising kids in the Matrix for the psychological benefits of building superdeckers. He next shows up in Threats, but this time he yanks the kids' brains out of their bodies to prevent "rescue" attempts, creating biological knowbots. You can read more about that in Psychotrope. The last we've heard of the good doctor, he's moved on to using otaku brains...no idea how that adds to his BKs' effectiveness yet.

Hmmm... okay, thanks. I guess I have to track down both Virtual Realities and Threats. I'm working on a story arc that incorporates and links Project: Matrix Born, Deus, the Arcology shutdown and the Network and while your page has been an invaluable shorthand reference, I think I need to get my hands on these books.
Jrayjoker
QUOTE (Nyxll @ Aug 17 2005, 11:17 AM)
I think deep resonance and dissonance are cyberspace's equivelent of background count and emotions.  Poeple talk about being sensitive to the energies of places, etc, I think the same principles are exerted on cyberspace.  Some people are just ultra flakey and claim to pick up on things.  And of course who will fit the bill better than Otaku. Deckers would not pick up on this because their perception is filtered through a deck.

Interesting theory. I hope that the descriptions and gameplay for technoshamen will give us a few hints.
Demonseed Elite
Heheh, I had this thread open in one Firefox tab and this news story open in the other. It just worked well together.

(I don't think you'll need a login to see that story, but if you do, lemme know).
Velocity
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Heheh, I had this thread open in one Firefox tab and this news story open in the other. It just worked well together.

SK War! W00t! biggrin.gif
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