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6thDragon
So whatever happened to the old cyberdecks? Will you still need them to hack into the matrix? What about all the persona and utility programs that go along with it?
hahnsoo
You don't need a cyberdeck anymore. Instead, you use your Commlink, which has software and an OS that effectively make it your cyberdeck. Also, you load your programs through your commlink as well. Basically, you just need a Commlink and a Sim Module, and you are ready to ride.
6thDragon
So that old Fairlight Excalibur is now a paperweight that has drastically gone down in value.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (6thDragon)
So that old Fairlight Excalibur is now a paperweight that has drastically gone down in value.

Yup. But you can get a Fairlight Caliban, the top-of-the-line Commlink in the game. It only costs 8,000 nuyen, though.
Nyxll
does anyone else "mourn" the loss of the bleeding edge of technology? I mean it was awesome to run and run and run ... to finally work up to a piece of hardware, or get lucky and steal one. All of the hardwork to procure high end decks and programs have been flushed down the toilet. Personal development is cool and all, but it seems to have replaced resources and technology.
hahnsoo
Oh, there are still lots and lots of expensive doohickeys to be had. After all, Beta Grade cyber isn't cheap, no matter what you try to get. Besides, it helps curb what I call "run inflation", where gradually folks would start to get paid 50,000 nuyen a piece for the most ridiculously easy runs. The lower prices not only make sense (look at the prices of computers or any AV entertainment equipment), but facilitate a better tabletop RPG, IMO. If I want to grind for loot, I'd play Everquest.
Tal
I'm with you on that one, Nyx. I miss those milestones of achievement. How'd that quote in VR 2.0 go? "Faster, stronger, meaner... God I hate the technology curve."
Demonseed Elite
Besides, the Fairlight Caliban is only the best over-the-counter model. Bleeding edge models that are better than the Fairlight Caliban can exist, you just won't find them at the computer store.
Rotbart van Dainig
Which rasises the question of upgrading... what is the range of essence costs for upgrades of implanted commlinks?
How many kinds of upgrade exist?
hahnsoo
Implanted Commlinks just cost 0.2 Essence, regardless of model. There are no "upgrade components", although some of the accessories like Sim Modules are implantable as well.
Rotbart van Dainig
Oops... accessories I mean. wobble.gif
Nyxll
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 22 2005, 10:14 AM)
Oh, there are still lots and lots of expensive doohickeys to be had.  After all, Beta Grade cyber isn't cheap, no matter what you try to get.  Besides, it helps curb what I call "run inflation", where gradually folks would start to get paid 50,000 nuyen a piece for the most ridiculously easy runs.  The lower prices not only make sense (look at the prices of computers or any AV entertainment equipment), but facilitate a better tabletop RPG, IMO.  If I want to grind for loot, I'd play Everquest.

I have never really seen shadowrun as something you "grind at". Many things are relevant to the gm running them, but if you were paid 50K, that was as a team, and you had alot of expenses. Even after playing my char for several years, I am still always short of cash and low on Karma. Surgury costs are terrible.

I still have never managed to land a set of hardened armor. nyahnyah.gif

I agree that cyberdecks were massively overpriced, but I think that it reflected focus of your char before running life. I would have a street index of .1 on it .. so that if you wanted to buy one later, you can do so for 100K or whatever. Just bump the availability to reflect rarity. Man I miss the old days.
blakkie
QUOTE (Nyxll @ Aug 22 2005, 09:50 AM)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 22 2005, 10:14 AM)
Oh, there are still lots and lots of expensive doohickeys to be had.  After all, Beta Grade cyber isn't cheap, no matter what you try to get.  Besides, it helps curb what I call "run inflation", where gradually folks would start to get paid 50,000 nuyen a piece for the most ridiculously easy runs.  The lower prices not only make sense (look at the prices of computers or any AV entertainment equipment), but facilitate a better tabletop RPG, IMO.  If I want to grind for loot, I'd play Everquest.

I have never really seen shadowrun as something you "grind at". Many things are relevant to the gm running them, but if you were paid 50K, that was as a team, and you had alot of expenses. Even after playing my char for several years, I am still always short of cash and low on Karma. Surgury costs are terrible.

I still have never managed to land a set of hardened armor. nyahnyah.gif

I agree that cyberdecks were massively overpriced, but I think that it reflected focus of your char before running life. I would have a street index of .1 on it .. so that if you wanted to buy one later, you can do so for 100K or whatever. Just bump the availability to reflect rarity. Man I miss the old days.

What you were doing is similar what SR4 did, only instead having an inflated creation time price (relative to street price), they lowerd both prices and dropped the cash available at creation time to reflect the new price.

Admittedly they dropped street price by a factor of 10 more than your lowered street cost, but remember that these are now items that nearly all characters will own in some form. So you can't used them to differentiate between a decker career path and other career paths.

P.S. Are there separate OS [off-the-shelf] options for a given commlink, or is the commlink/OS a package deal? Can you get after-market and/or home-rolled OSes for those that feel they absolutely, positively must be a slave to the bleeding edge?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (blakkie)
P.S. Are there separate OS [off-the-shelf] options for a given commlink, or is the commlink/OS a package deal? Can you get after-market and/or home-rolled OSes for those that feel they absolutely, positively must be a slave to the bleeding edge?

Commlinks and OSes are purchased separately. There aren't any rules for home-brewed programming, although there are rules for pirating software. Perhaps further questions should be asked in the Sticky threads above, just so it's all in one thread.
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE
There aren't any rules for home-brewed programming, although there are rules for pirating software.


Did the Commlink Customization section at the end of the Matrix chapter get cut for now? I don't have a copy of the book yet, but in my last draft (which I think is what went to layout), there were some rules related to custom upgrades and custom software programming at the very end of the Matrix chapter.
the_dunner
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Did the Commlink Customization section at the end of the Matrix chapter get cut for now?

No, those rules are in there, p.240. They're basic, but they're absolutely functional.

Just, uh, it may be 2085 before your hacker finishes recoding his rating 6 OS. nyahnyah.gif
Demonseed Elite
Well, if you're intent on coding your own bleeding-edge OS, it shouldn't be easy!

They could always open source it, I suppose. wink.gif
hobgoblin
then i guess he should open source it and gather up a 5000+ size programming team then silly.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
The lower prices not only make sense (look at the prices of computers or any AV entertainment equipment)

Red herring. The proper comparison to draw between today's computers and SR computers is the "tabletop computer" category, the one that doesn't have MPCP. Cyberdecks are mainframes in a tiny box compared to them, and the prices are extremely reasonable for that.

~J
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE
then i guess he should open source it and gather up a 5000+ size programming team then


including the requisite Renraku, MCT, and NeoNet spies! cool.gif
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 22 2005, 10:14 AM)
The lower prices not only make sense (look at the prices of computers or any AV entertainment equipment)

Red herring. The proper comparison to draw between today's computers and SR computers is the "tabletop computer" category, the one that doesn't have MPCP. Cyberdecks are mainframes in a tiny box compared to them, and the prices are extremely reasonable for that.

~J

I'd disagree. Look at how much prices for technology now adays are falling and at the rate their falling. I'm prety sure in sr2 the fairlight is the same as the sr3 in price. And theres a 10+ year gap between and their the same price. What piece of computing technology do you know thats available out on the open market has stayed the exact same price for 10 years straight?
Spookymonster
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Aug 22 2005, 11:36 AM)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 22 2005, 10:14 AM)
The lower prices not only make sense (look at the prices of computers or any AV entertainment equipment)

Red herring. The proper comparison to draw between today's computers and SR computers is the "tabletop computer" category, the one that doesn't have MPCP. Cyberdecks are mainframes in a tiny box compared to them, and the prices are extremely reasonable for that.

~J

I'd disagree. Look at how much prices for technology now adays are falling and at the rate their falling. I'm prety sure in sr2 the fairlight is the same as the sr3 in price. And theres a 10+ year gap between and their the same price. What piece of computing technology do you know thats available out on the open market has stayed the exact same price for 10 years straight?

Mainframes. New computing tech shows up on the mainframe platform years ahead of consumer-grade boxes and servers. As a result, they can justify always charging a premium. As a mainframe (z/OS, MVS, VM, you name it) sysop, I should know.

So, in effect, Kage's right.
prionic6
I always thought a sr3 fairlight would be much more advanced than the sr2 fairlight but would cost the same. As other computers advanced in the same rate, it would still have the same values, only compared to the newer tech. SOTA. This is difficult to play out in a game lasting more than a few years (even with SOTA rules) but it should be true.
Lindt
Personally I wanna make a Decker (I still refuse to call them Hackers.. flat out refuse) who builds a good comlink into an old Farlight deck case.
Tal
It'll have one hell of a lot of free space left over. Commlinks are what, the size of your fist, tops?
blakkie
QUOTE (Tal)
It'll have one hell of a lot of free space left over. Commlinks are what, the size of your fist, tops?

He can pack a lunch and a decent sized pistol in there. Rivet a loose strap from end to end and he can have a stylish purse. beret.gif
akarenti
Decks weren't exactly unweildly; as I understood they were only the size of the built in human interface device.
blakkie
QUOTE (akarenti @ Aug 23 2005, 08:36 AM)
Decks weren't exactly unweildly; as I understood they were only the size of the built in human interface device.

All the art suggested roughly keyboard sized cases. I don't remember the offical weight listed for them, but you might as well roll dice as go by that. wobble.gif

EDIT: Ok, it'll be a light lunch. nyahnyah.gif
Nikoli
Power bars my man, power bars...
Demonseed Elite
No way, the extra space in the old cyberdeck case is where you keep your NERPS!
Nikoli
mmmm Nerps.
You could also kit-bash the old wire hookups as nozzles for your Amber-gel.
Kesh
Aren't there external, Commlinked items that duplicate some cyberware? If so, tucking those into an old cyberdeck case along with the Commlink could be useful for keeping them all in one place.
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