I've been looking over SR4, and am going to be having my local gaming group make characters this coming Saturday. I have a few calls I'm planning to make regarding character creation, and wanted to get some opinions.

The concept of Martial Arts, or a specific martial art, being a valid specialization for Unarmed Combat seemed silly to me in SR3, and remains so for SR4. Being able to buy Uarmed at 4, and get +2 dice whenever you can use Karate seems like the specialization would pretty much always be used. I liked the CC version of martial arts, but felt that allowing Unarmed (Capoeira) of 3(5) was an abuse of the rules. My intention is to require any character with Unarmed Combat to name the style, and assume brawling otherwise. If CC-style martial arts rules come out later, we'll go from there.

Another specialization which seems overpowered to me is Semi-automatic Pistols. Light Pistols or Heavy Pistols seems safer, but semi-automatic seems too broad. Sure, 9 times out of 10, a runner will have his preferred sidearm on him, but when he needs to bring something smaller and more concealable, I'd rather that he doesn't get to be just as skilled.

I'm leery of specialization abuse because of the hard skill caps, and the fact that specializations advance automatically when the base skill advances.

The other thing I was toying with was limiting starting Edge. I've liked the idea that characters advance in Karma Pool in SR3 (and previously, of course, but the majority of my experience is SR3). With wound modifiers being far less severe in SR4, I don't think that starting with lower Edge will be a killer. Furthermore, with starting characters able to max out one attribute and skill at creation (or darn close to it), I'd rather they not be able to do Edge as well. Would I be a jerk if I told my players they cannot invest any BPs in Edge?

I'm also planning on adapting the Enemies rules from SR3Comp. Enemies are fun, and will give me as a GM a bit more background and hooks for character motivations.

Anyway, opinions are welcome. I haven't played SR4 beyond a demo, and would hate to have to retcon an abuse. My players aren't really crazy powergamers or rules lawyers, but I'd rather think about these things now.

?

I could be wrong, but I'd understood Cannon Companion to assign each separate martial art as a separate skill, and one besides that can't be raised without knowledge of manoeuvres tied to that skill (1 manoeuvre per two points). That was the advantage of taking Brawling: no requirement to learn the special manoeuvre to raise the skill.

Also:

..there is an extra positve quality thats increases Edge directly (other than exceptional edge), called 'lucky'?

PS: MA were specialisations back in the main book.

You can control edge by deciding how often it renews.

Well, Unarmed Combat covers a lot of things, and in my mind, if you pick a Martial Art specialization, you lose those extra dice when you are on Full Defense (Full Parry, as it's not covered by the Martial Art), Subduing Combat, and Cyberimplant weapons that use Unarmed Combat. Specializations are mutually exclusive... if you specialize in one thing, then you don't get the benefits of the rest of the Specializations under that skill.

specializations in unarmed combat may not make a lot of sense, but they're better than the base concept of the CC rules, in which a kung fu master becomes a spastic joke when he tries to incorporate a few kenpo moves into his style. the maneuvers were neat, though.

if you want to limit unarmed combat, you could do it by attack type instead of specific martial art. for instance, "kick attacks" or "punches" or "biting". that way, there's at least a chance for the GM to make things harder; if your specialization is in punches, but you've been handcuffed, for instance, you can't use the specialization.

the specialization against multiple opponents makes sense to me.

2 points for a specialization is both for building points and karma to get one in game, right? It seems awfully cheap for a two-dice bonus! I mean: from what I read, increasing a skill - say, Pistols - from 4 to 5 costs 10 karma point or 4 building point at chargen, but a specialization which would give you, say, Pistols (Predator) 4 (6) would cost you only 2 BP or KP?

I guess the developers wanted to keep the bookkeeping to a minimum, but a house rule to split the specialization in two steps might make some sense - e.g. in the above example, 2 KP would give you a 'level 1' specialization giving you Pistols (Predator) 4 (5), and another 2 KP would give you a 'level 2' specialization and Pistols (Predator) 4 (6).

Or something along those lines anyways... (My assumption here is that most people will specialize into stuff they actually use on a fairly regular basis, so I think that would bring specializations more in line with the cost of skills. Still cheaper, yes, but they're narrower as well, so it's only natural.)

If specializations cost double when one would bring you over 6, but they just go up automatically whenever you increase the base skill, then there's a loophole that makes it cheaper to buy your specialization when the base skill is at 4 and then increase the base skill to 5, right? Or would you need to pay double for the latter as it would bring your specialization over 6?

Honestly, as big a shock the hard cap was at first, I think it might be a relatively good idea. As there is only so high any particular skill will go, you'll have to develop better strategies that will enable you to overcome your limitations. Pure talent won't get your ass out of the fire every time: you'll need to play your cards smartly if you want to make it through the day...

However, I think my very first house rule will be to bring chargen in line with karma costs for in-game improvement, and give specializations a cost that better represent the way I expect them to be used in my group. (I might even adjust the cost of attribute improvements relative to skill improvements to address the imbalance there - or maybe limit attribute dice in a skill test to twice your skill - or both, but that's a different story which belongs to another thread.)

Specializations just cost 2 BP or 2 Karma, and give you a +2 dice bonus. You can't specialize off of a Skill Group, and you can only have one specialization per skill. That's it.

Before you go banning the increase of edge, remember that its 5 karma to regain a used point. Its not like th old karma pool (sadly).

no. he's posting out of a draft of the playtest rules.

That's a step up then.

Yep, I was. *someone dosent have the book yet* And to think they had people running Sr4 demos with those draft rules... oh wait... that was me.

See? It Could Be Worse ™

So I recind my statement.

Could the demo rules have been a quick fix because there might not be time for edge to refresh? Then again, how often do you get awarded 5 points of karma during a session - and not at the end of it.?