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shimrod
Hello,

I'm curious to know how will be weapons and firearms in SR4 ?

There will be new weapons ? Better weapons ? Bigger guns ? Hi-tech assault guns with scope, grenade launcher, big clip of ammo, etc ?

By the way, i hope to see nice pictures of guns. For me, a nice picture is almost most important than the stats of the weapons.

Shimrod
Grinder
As long as my trusted AK is still available, i'm fine. smile.gif
Wolfskin
QUOTE (shimrod @ Aug 25 2005, 04:52 AM)
There will be new weapons ?


Of course! i.e. the Predator 4 is now available
imperialus
and I'm sure we'll see a Browning Krazy Power too.
hahnsoo
The Ingram Smartgun is now the Ingram Smartgun X (I'm not joking) and now it has an integral sound suppressor along with its other goodies (and yet, it's only "restricted", when sound suppressors are "forbidden"). Truly "the works" SMG, except it can't fire semi-auto, like previous incarnations.

There's a new assault rifle that makes me happy in my pants that's like the old Steyr-AUG CSL, called the HK XM30. Too bad you can't buy it at character creation. *sigh*

The default LMG, the Ingram White Knight, is a monster. It comes with 5 points of integral RC.

There's also an "Elephant Gun", a double-barrelled sport rifle.

The two main new tech weapons are the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki, an electronic pistol with no moving parts, a la http://www.metalstorm.com/04_the_technology.html
In game terms, it's a lot like the old Ruger Thunderbolt.

And the Fichetti Pain Inducer, a microwave weapon that, umm... induces pain.

I suppose the Monofilament Chainsaw counts, too. *sigh*
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
...

I suppose the Monofilament Chainsaw counts, too. *sigh*

Wait...what?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 25 2005, 09:09 AM)
...

I suppose the Monofilament Chainsaw counts, too. *sigh*

Wait...what?

There'samonofilamentchainsawnowletusneverspeakofthisagain. *runs by really fast*
Bull
The Monochainsaw is actually a bit more of a "ooo, funky" weapon rather than a "Holy crap he's chewing through KE's entire stash of guards in one round!" deal.

It's a 5 DV weapon with a couple AP, and is "unwieldy", so you get a -2 for using it, on top of needing the "Exotic Melee Weapons" skill. Basically, it has monofilament "teeth" on it to make it extra useful for cutting down trees and such smile.gif

It's a better option in a pinch than, say, a whiffle ball bat (though those do sting quite a bit). And I'd say there's definate intimidation factor. But there are definately better weapons to be had. Hell, even an elderly grandmother with a combat axe is gonna have at least the same DV and 2 points of reach, sacrifing only a single point of AP over the Chainsaw. And Granny doesn;t suffer a -2 to her weapon skill either.

Though I already have a player who's planning to upgrade an old SR char of his... "Chainsaw Charlie", an elf with a Troll Cyberarm who's weapon of choice was a chainsaw. He's now talking full cybertorso and limbs, all troll sized (But still with the pipsqueak elf head) and a mono chainsword. Charlie apparently HATES being a weedy elf. smile.gif

Bull
tisoz
I went over the pain inducer and the monochainsaw in the Combat and gear sticky thread.

Also mention the injection arrow/bolt.
Woobie
The monochainsaw has to be there for go-gangers and such, it really looks mean...
tisoz
It's grouped with B&E tools, but everyone knows someone is going to want to use it as a weapon.
shimrod
Another question : there will be those silly recoil compensator you can customize for each weapon ?

I say that because i've always thought this irrealistic, a recoil compesator you can change on a automatic weapon, i don't think these things really exist.

hahnsoo
QUOTE (shimrod)
Another question : there will be those silly recoil compensator you can customize for each weapon ?

I say that because i've always thought this irrealistic, a recoil compesator you can change on a automatic weapon, i don't think these things really exist.

You can add Gas Vent systems, just like in SR3. If by recoil compensator, you are referring to the Cannon Companion gun rules, there are no gun construction rules in SR4 at this time. The Ares Alpha assault rifle does mention that it has some sort of special chamber-based recoil system, but that's the description that's been carried over since Fields of Fire.

And irrealistic is not a word, to my knowledge.
Spookymonster
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
And irrealistic is not a word, to my knowledge.

"Me fail English? That's unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum
shimrod
QUOTE (hahnsoo)

And irrealistic is not a word, to my knowledge.


ok, unrealistic, sorry. english is not my native language.
tisoz
QUOTE (shimrod)
QUOTE (hahnsoo)

And irrealistic is not a word, to my knowledge.


ok, unrealistic, sorry. english is not my native langage.

Yeah, that's what I figured from the syntax and grammar. On behalf of the others, sorry. frown.gif
Clyde
I, too, used to think that "chamber based recoil compensation" (from Fields of Fire) and its current incarnations were total bunk. On the other hand, check out:

http://www.ccfa.com/ColtArticleonCounterpoise.htm

A modification for M-16/AR-15 series rifles claimed to reduce felt recoil by up to 50%.

Also, see:

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,1463...h_AA12,,00.html

Which has some info on the "constant recoil" principle.
Shadow_Prophet
Yeah, benelli has something along those lines, no where near that level at the moment, but then again mill spec tech eventualy trickles down to us.
Rev
Heh, is there an 'x' in the name of every new weapon?
Wolfskin
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
The two main new tech weapons are the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki, an electronic pistol with no moving parts


Is it a heavy or a light pistol?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Wolfskin)
Is it a heavy or a light pistol?

Light Pistol
Wolfskin
Thanks for the information. Is it the only light pistol and what about the heavy pistols? How many are listed in the new book?
hahnsoo
4 Light Pistols, 5 Heavy Pistols, 2 Machine Pistols, 2 Hold Out Pistols, 2 Tasers. The rest of them are names that you've seen before and know and love, like the Colt Manhunter or Remington Roomsweeper.
FlakJacket
Since I don't have the book to hand, can someone confirm that they've kind of rejigged the concealability rules? As I recall, there's now a slight advantage to machine pistols.
tisoz
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
Since I don't have the book to hand, can someone confirm that they've kind of rejigged the concealability rules? As I recall, there's now a slight advantage to machine pistols.

Concealablility?

Oh you mean that table that givesdice modifiers in increments of 2 with a Heavy Pistol at 0, a slap patch or bug at -6, and an Ass. Rif. or katana at +6? Btw, Light pistols are -2.
wagnern
Consealability

They don't list consilibility for each item, instead they give consealability for classes of items (hold out pistols are a -4, light a -2 and heavy a +0) Its also up to the GM from there.
wagnern
Yamaha Sakura Fubuki

Now what is people's position on having the thing modifyed (It would only be a programing issue) one of these to fire from one barrel as you specify. IE keep gel rounds in one, normal in another, Explosive in one, Normal in yet another.
Hida Tsuzua
Did the Ares Viper Slivergun make it? Or was it replaced with the Silvergun? biggrin.gif
Adarael
And, more importantly, can we dikote the AVS? Or perhaps enchant it as an ally spirit?

And most importantly.... can we have sex with it?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua)
Did the Ares Viper Slivergun make it? Or was it replaced with the Silvergun? biggrin.gif

The Slivergun is in the book. Again. At least, it has the same concealability as any other Heavy Pistol. I will note that although Silencers/Sound Suppressors are forbidden, the Viper Slivergun is only Restricted (with only an Availability of 5 at that). Same thing with the Ingram Smartgun X. Hrm...
Wounded Ronin
I can hardly wait to say "INGRAM SMARTGUN ECCXXXSSS!"

"I waste him with my...INGRAM SMARTGUN ECCXXSSSSS!"

"I reload my...INGRAM SMARTGUN ECCXXSSSSS!"
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
I can hardly wait to say "INGRAM SMARTGUN ECCXXXSSS!"

"I waste him with my...INGRAM SMARTGUN ECCXXSSSSS!"

"I reload my...INGRAM SMARTGUN ECCXXSSSSS!"

I think it works better if you say the first part softly. Like so:
"I'm going to frag the slottin' drekeatin' dandelion-chewin' chummer with my Ingram... Smartgun... EEEECCCCKKKSSSSSS!"
Milo Simpkin
QUOTE (wagnern)
They don't list consilibility for each item, instead they give consealability for classes of items (hold out pistols are a -4, light a -2 and heavy a +0) Its also up to the GM from there.

Is that minus dice to a Perception test?
wagnern
QUOTE (Milo Simpkin)
QUOTE (wagnern @ Aug 25 2005, 03:59 PM)
They don't list consilibility for each item, instead they give consealability for classes of items (hold out pistols are a -4, light a -2 and heavy a +0)  Its also up to the GM from there.

Is that minus dice to a Perception test?

yes
Milo Simpkin
Ahhh. So if someone is carrying multiple weapons of different types an observer has to make multiple rolls with varying dicepool sizes? Sounds...inelegant.
blakkie
QUOTE (Milo Simpkin @ Aug 26 2005, 12:01 AM)
Ahhh. So if someone is carrying multiple weapons of different types an observer has to make multiple rolls with varying dicepool sizes? Sounds...inelegant.

Ya, no crap. frown.gif Seems like a missed opportunity to make an improvement over SR3.
Milo Simpkin
Definately frown.gif And I'm guessing that if that's the system they use they don't give different concealabilities against visual, patdowns and MADs, huh? Also making concealabilities category specific rather than weapon seems like you are taking distinctiveness against from the various weapons. But hey.
blakkie
QUOTE (Milo Simpkin)
Also making concealabilities category specific rather than weapon seems like you are taking distinctiveness against from the various weapons. But hey.

Well that bit doesn't concern me so much. If options for the weapons like bipods and silencers bump them up and down the scale. But then i could have lived with damage being the same across catagories of weapons, so i've got a bent to that way of looking at things.
Wounded Ronin
Is there still a katana? There's gotta be a katana, to keep things 80s.
blakkie
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Is there still a katana? There's gotta be a katana, to keep things 80s.

Of course, but just one katana isn't 80's. That's why the Weaponsexpert has two of them! Double the pleasure! wink.gif
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 26 2005, 12:56 AM)
Is there still a katana?  There's gotta be a katana, to keep things 80s.

Of course, but just one katana isn't 80's. That's why the Weaponsexpert has two of them! Double the pleasure! wink.gif

Double the pleasure? Weaponssexpert, huh? wink.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 26 2005, 01:12 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 26 2005, 01:58 AM)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 26 2005, 12:56 AM)
Is there still a katana?  There's gotta be a katana, to keep things 80s.

Of course, but just one katana isn't 80's. That's why the Weaponsexpert has two of them! Double the pleasure! wink.gif

Double the pleasure? Weaponssexpert, huh? wink.gif

shhhhh, dont' interupt me, i'm having a moment here....

*Sade plays in the background, bass turned way up,*

...she's givin' me, she's givin' me the sah-weetest taboooo....
Crusher Bob
QUOTE (blakkie)

Of course, but just one katana isn't 80's. That's why the Weaponsexpert has two of them! Double the pleasure! wink.gif

Actually, she has two so that after cutting a guy's head off in a parking garage and ditching the first katana, she still has one handy to cuy other guys heads off...

Fortune favors the prepared, after all.
tisoz
QUOTE (Milo Simpkin)
Ahhh. So if someone is carrying multiple weapons of different types an observer has to make multiple rolls with varying dicepool sizes? Sounds...inelegant.

I would do it this way:

Example:
Character has Agility 4, Infiltration 4
Character is carrying:
katana, +6 modifier
club, +2 modifier
Heavy pistol, 0 modifier
monowhip, -4 modifier

Searcher has Perception 2 and Intuition 3, they are a doorman at a bar and are actively looking so get a +3 modifier and a -2 modifier for partial light. So their base pool is 6.

Character rolls 8 dice, note hits

Searcher needs 1 net hit to discover.
Searcher rolls 2 dice for monowhip, compare to character hits
Searcher rolls 4 more dice for Heavy Pistol, add to monowhip hits, compare to character hits
Searcher rolls 2 more dice for club and add previous hits, compare to character hits.
Searcher rolls 4 more dice for katana, add previous hits, compare to character hits.

This way the character is making 1 roll and in effect, the searcher is making one roll.

There is a threshold system, but it doesn't mesh with concealability. It is how obvious/large/loud an item/event is. On the threshold table, a neon sign is threshold 1, a street sign is threshold 2, a contact lens is threshold 3, a needle in a haystack is threshhold 4.
hobgoblin
hmm, that chainsaw should be perfect for those times when the team needs to do a run in CAS, or more specificaly new orleans silly.gif

hell, trow in a double barrel roomsweeper and im game cyber.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
Fortune favors the prepared, after all.

No no no!

It's 'Fortune favors the prepaid!' wink.gif
tisoz
Hey, Fortune! Where ya been?
Fresno Bob
QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 25 2005, 10:58 PM)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 26 2005, 12:56 AM)
Is there still a katana?  There's gotta be a katana, to keep things 80s.

Of course, but just one katana isn't 80's. That's why the Weaponsexpert has two of them! Double the pleasure! wink.gif

Is it bad that I read that as Weapon Sexpert?

Edit: Damn, Wounded Ronin already made that joke.
Fortune
QUOTE (tisoz)
Hey, Fortune! Where ya been?

I have been experiencing an extended, non-voluntary vacation from the internet. frown.gif

But I'm back now. biggrin.gif

It is definitely turning into a full-time job getting caught up on everything though.
blakkie
QUOTE (Voorhees)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 25 2005, 10:58 PM)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 26 2005, 12:56 AM)
Is there still a katana?  There's gotta be a katana, to keep things 80s.

Of course, but just one katana isn't 80's. That's why the Weaponsexpert has two of them! Double the pleasure! wink.gif

Is it bad that I read that as Weapon Sexpert?

Edit: Damn, Wounded Ronin already made that joke.

Someone else here used that name for it first. I assume they too were aware of the trick that grouping of letters could play on the eye. wink.gif
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