Greets,
Currently, I am looking for a non-Seattle setting based in North America. My group has played Denver, Chicago, Seattle, and LA (along with the badlands around most of those places.). We're looking for a new challenge.
The problem, however, is that SR4 and System Failure leaves WAY too much in the air about current events for my taste. I desperately need some idea of what ultimately pushed Saito out of the Bay Area, and what the current disposition is of a) the Ares forces in the South Bay, b) the metahuman forces in the East Bay, and c) what the corps are up to.
How was Saito pushed out? What's the status of Sacremento? Do any of you folks out there have any idea? I'd love some basic hints just so I can develop cohesive theme that doesn't range too terribly far from canon.
Full Version: Bay Area and Saito
Well, Saito is gone by 2070 (the text implies that he's gone by the time the CalFree earthquakes happen in 2069), but he's still very much in power by the time MCT pulls out of Tsimshiam and moves to San Francisco in 2065(?). There is NO fiction at this time written about what happens to Saito in the intervening years. There are several options as to how he gets taken out, I guess:
1) Shadowrunners and the Oct. 29th Resistance
2) The Earthquakes killed him.
3) MCT decided they didn't need a power hungry dictator ordering them around and killed him in a corporate coup of the military dictatorship
4) Nationalist Japanese forces re-invade San Fran and take Saito out of power, in accordance to the Emperor's pull-out plan.
5) Ares Macrotechnology decides they've had enough of Saito and kick his butt seven ways to Sunday.
As I said before, there is no fiction whatsoever written about this.
Your best bet, I think, is to take the CalFree section of SoNA and base a campaign either shortly before the Crash 2.0, or just after it in the turbulent years following MCT's move to San Fran (which would give a BIG boost to Saito's power).
1) Shadowrunners and the Oct. 29th Resistance
2) The Earthquakes killed him.
3) MCT decided they didn't need a power hungry dictator ordering them around and killed him in a corporate coup of the military dictatorship
4) Nationalist Japanese forces re-invade San Fran and take Saito out of power, in accordance to the Emperor's pull-out plan.
5) Ares Macrotechnology decides they've had enough of Saito and kick his butt seven ways to Sunday.
As I said before, there is no fiction whatsoever written about this.
Your best bet, I think, is to take the CalFree section of SoNA and base a campaign either shortly before the Crash 2.0, or just after it in the turbulent years following MCT's move to San Fran (which would give a BIG boost to Saito's power).
Or, instead of worrying about the metaplot, pick your favorite line of reasoning from the above 5 and design a campaign where the players can help to oust Saito at what ever level your game resides. Street level runners could be running arms or medical supplies for the resistance, or dropping poison into Saito's troop's water supplies, mid-level runners might get wetwork targetting lieutenants or confidants, high level runners might even be offered an assassination of Saito himself. From the flip side, you could have the runners working for any of the other parties above (MCT, Ares, etc.) who are destabalizing Saito's power base. Don't worry so much about material that has not yet been published and blaze your own trail!!
As most players don't keep track of the metaplot, don't worry too much about future relases which might include the development in california and which might only been read by a handful of your players, if any.
Make your own path.
Make your own path.
Yeah, but I would just like to note that while most people don't follow the metaplot, it is nice to have a general framework of the power players and motivations in any particular aspect of the Sixth World. Maybe that's all the OP needed.
| QUOTE (Ghostfire) |
| Greets, Currently, I am looking for a non-Seattle setting based in North America. My group has played Denver, Chicago, Seattle, and LA (along with the badlands around most of those places.). We're looking for a new challenge. |
Or you could play is Boston, Alanta, New York, the Twin cities, baltimore, DeeCee ,Portland ,Detroit ,Mexico city....
I suggest not playing anything in CA. CA tends to be a favorite target for big canon changes (including a magnitude 8+ earthquake every five years or so), and the authors tend to display very little knowledge of modern-day or historical CA (from culture to politics to geography). To some extent, they seem familiar with inaccurate stereotypes (though it's unclear that they know they're inaccurate)--but many locations get the stereotypical treatment, so that's not really a distinguishing feature.
But you might wake up one day and find that your campaign is underwater, or in Alaska, or has been taken over by communists, or a dragon, or something, and anything you read about CA itself, or look up with Google maps, or something, is as likely to be contrary to canon material as it is to be helpful.
If you're going in and out quick, that might not be a problem. But for a full setting, I'd choose somewhere else unless I was going to make up my own background and not worry about what FanPro does. Maybe they'll do things differently from now on, but I wouldn't count on it.
But you might wake up one day and find that your campaign is underwater, or in Alaska, or has been taken over by communists, or a dragon, or something, and anything you read about CA itself, or look up with Google maps, or something, is as likely to be contrary to canon material as it is to be helpful.
If you're going in and out quick, that might not be a problem. But for a full setting, I'd choose somewhere else unless I was going to make up my own background and not worry about what FanPro does. Maybe they'll do things differently from now on, but I wouldn't count on it.
Although they DID predict that Ah-nold would go into politics...
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| Although they DID predict that Ah-nold would go into politics... |
Just as long as we don't see Demolition Man-esqe changes to the US constitution!
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| Although they DID predict that Ah-nold would go into politics... |
That's not exactly something that was out of the blue. He had stated his intention years before.
Oh, I can highly recommend Las Vegas as a setting. We've been playing a 2058 campaign in Vegas, and we're having a blast. Lots of crime, exotic venues, and the occasional Mormon conspiracy to boot. There's ALWAYS a secure meet site, too, on the Strip.
There's ALWAYS a secure meet site, too, on the Strip.
We're playing a very cool campaign based in Miami. Very cool setting where you can have every kind of run from drug-smuggling into the CAS to extractions of execs while they're on a vacation in Miami and even some full blown gang war.
When it comes to Saito, i noticed something odd.
I'm not saying this is what the SR writers intended, but for my campaign, i find it hilarious, so i'm using it.
Saito has a big scar on his face.
Loffy left Tir land around the time Saito arrived.
Saito stuck around for a while, but after his brother scampered away, it looks like he found better things to do, morphed back into Almaise (the scarred dragon) and went home.
I'm not saying this is what the SR writers intended, but for my campaign, i find it hilarious, so i'm using it.
Saito has a big scar on his face.
Loffy left Tir land around the time Saito arrived.
Saito stuck around for a while, but after his brother scampered away, it looks like he found better things to do, morphed back into Almaise (the scarred dragon) and went home.
Iirc Loffy left TT some years after Saito decided to stay in SanFran?
true. But what's a few years to a dragon?
He didn't assume this role and usurp power for Lofwyr alone.
plans within plans.
For instance: He /really/ hates anything with TIR in front of it.
Calfree was pretty weakened up, partially due to him. Some nations grabbed land.
Some nations owe him favors now potentially, which he'll use to get back at Saeder/Tir.
A new dragon is on the Tir princes list. Haven't decided yet whether this is for his interests or against them. Depends on how Hesty and him get along, and really that's unknown at this point.
Meanwhile, he usurped a large portion of the japanese army, giving that nation even more disasters than it needs, which directly helps out Lung and Masaru. More elbow nudging and pretty favors passed back and forth, backs are scratched, and eventually he'll ask for reciprocation.
Even with the anti meta slant that he took with his army, if he just left them to rot in the end, it's actually pro-meta when they rise up and take back what's theirs. Depending on the PR spin, it may fall right into Masaru's plans.
And he was another force keeping Aztlan from nudging any farther north after Ghostwalker laid the smack down. Backs are scratched.
It just goes on and on.
He didn't assume this role and usurp power for Lofwyr alone.
plans within plans.
For instance: He /really/ hates anything with TIR in front of it.
Calfree was pretty weakened up, partially due to him. Some nations grabbed land.
Some nations owe him favors now potentially, which he'll use to get back at Saeder/Tir.
A new dragon is on the Tir princes list. Haven't decided yet whether this is for his interests or against them. Depends on how Hesty and him get along, and really that's unknown at this point.
Meanwhile, he usurped a large portion of the japanese army, giving that nation even more disasters than it needs, which directly helps out Lung and Masaru. More elbow nudging and pretty favors passed back and forth, backs are scratched, and eventually he'll ask for reciprocation.
Even with the anti meta slant that he took with his army, if he just left them to rot in the end, it's actually pro-meta when they rise up and take back what's theirs. Depending on the PR spin, it may fall right into Masaru's plans.
And he was another force keeping Aztlan from nudging any farther north after Ghostwalker laid the smack down. Backs are scratched.
It just goes on and on.
| QUOTE (Ellery @ Sep 7 2005, 04:36 PM) |
| I suggest not playing anything in CA. CA tends to be a favorite target for big canon changes (including a magnitude 8+ earthquake every five years or so), and the authors tend to display very little knowledge of modern-day or historical CA (from culture to politics to geography). To some extent, they seem familiar with inaccurate stereotypes (though it's unclear that they know they're inaccurate)--but many locations get the stereotypical treatment, so that's not really a distinguishing feature. |
Gotta agree with Ellery here; most of SR's future history of the West Coast seems to consist of Cal getting the finger over and over again by Japan, Mexico, the UCAS, the Pueblo nations, the elves, Mother Nature and Father Mana... it's rather impressive actually. Part of the reason for this of course was because it was the only way Seattle could ever become such a center of the world; California has two seaports, both of which are bigger and more profitable than Seattle's, and without some major mojo blasting them both Seattle would just be one minor port city. So in that way it's necessary.
The only cool bit of plot to happen in California is the formation of the People's University. I love the idea of Berkeley turning into an underground society of techno-guerrillas, even though there's no chance of it ever actually happenning.
Yeah, Cali has been really beat up in SR. I haven't purchased SR4 yet but it sounds like now they also have a major earthquake that tore the place up. Oh well, there are several things I think are interesting about the CFS but in general we don't use what was written in our games. But extreme change and destruction tend to make better fiction than static and mundane, I enjoy it anyways even if it sometimes makes me cringe.
Yeah, let's just say that the people who wrote up what happened to California in the SR4 shift were.... not geologists. There's supposed to have been giant earthquakes and a huge crevice appeared that filled up with water, transforming California into "Escape From LA". Now, EFL was an awesome movie and all, but the fact is that the new map calls for a new inland sea that you could easily fit two Chicxulub craters into. And since we'll recall that the creation of one Chicxulub Crater also involved the K-T Extinction some 65 MYA, we can safely assume that geologic activity of that scale would involve Las Vegas and Tenochitlan falling down, as well as Tokyo and Sydney being devastated by tidal waves. The visceral and non-sensical hatred of California by the original authors has obviously continued into the present edition (remember, Seattlites tell jokes that have punchlines like "We have lots of Californians, but we recycle our bottles.")
So yeah, using canon California is something that you only can do if you want to tell broad farce or simply have no idea what you are talking about and don't care. But let's assume that you want to use something kind of similar to the official storyline without being 10 pounds of stupid in a five pound bag. Here's a half hearted attempt:
California in 2070:
First off, the border of the Cal Free State is just the California border, all the border movements depicted in Shadowrun make no sense at all (San Diego is the largest military outpost on the western seaboard, if Aztlan could take that, they'd take LA as well - the PCC's population is smaller than the population of LA, even after supposedly absorbing LA, etc. etc.), so we just ignore that stuff. This has the advantage that you can look up actual maps of california instead of trying to figure out what the hell is going on from little scribbles at the end of the SR book that were apparently drawn by a five year old from the BRD.
Los Angeles:
The first important thing to understand about LA is the scale of the place. The Los Angelos basin is 300 kilometers across, and that's all city. In the 20th century it was hailed as "The Horizontal City", where most of that was single story buildings, and the entire place was crisscrossed with giant arteries of freeways and streets. To get from any place to any other place was such an ordeal that people wrote songs about how walking in Los Angeles was impractical. In 2070, the population of LA is actually not much more than it was during the turn of the century, the entire metroplex scarcely crests 13 million people - but it no longer claims status as a horizontal city. Soaring fuel prices combined with changes in manufacturing and sales strategies in the 21st century have created an economic need for condensation that was simply unheard of before the awakening. So while the population hasn't changed much, the population density has. The days of strip malls and single occupancy suburbia are largely over - the Los Angeles of today boasts Arcologies belonging to most AAA corporations and several AA corps besides.
So what happened to all those extra buildings? Nothing. Arcologies were built up all over the basin in places that were determined to be most economical for that purpose, and as people moved out of the rest of the city, noone moved in to take their place. With so very much space available, there was no need for all that horizontal city nonsense - and especially no need to fund services for it. The city is now confined to "enclaves" of wealth and opulence. The rest of the city is "Sacrifice Zone" - areas where building something modern would be marginally more expensive than building in any of the other 30,000 square kilometers that make up the Los Angeles metroplex. The sacrifice zones usually have chain link fences around them, and no connection to the power or water grids. Officially speaking, noone lives in the "Sea of Ruin" that stretches between the islands of corporate territory.
Heavy Weather:
In 2069, the rains came and hit LA hard. Los Angeles is subject to flash flooding at the best of times (what with being a desert shaped like a giant soup bowl), and the lack of maintenance on most of the city rendered drainage suspect in the best of areas. The canals had long ago been allowed to fill up with broken cars and piles of trash, and the sewer system had been left overflowing during the dry season. When November came around, it heralded the largest rainy season on record. March came along and the rains did not stop. The sunshine state didn't see more than three days of clear skies in a row until late June of 2070. By then, the sea of ruin was a sea in fact rather than metaphor.
While the corporate arcologiess have done fiarly well (the Horizon Garden Arcology, for example, has its own water-proof walls and pumps), the residents of the enclave areas surrounding those arcologies have often been forced to evacuate. And the residents of the no-light districts got no services even when their homes weren't under water. Hordes of refugess attempted to leave the city in all directions, but were turned back by California Patrol, Aztlan Warriors, and PCC Troopers on the gorunds that these "looters" would increase crime in any place that they managed to get (what with them living illegally where they came from).
Power Grab:
The relief effort has gone spottily at best. The CalFree State has contracted with Horizon to provide clean water, food, shelter, and evacuation to the flood victims, at least those flood victims as came from economically prosperous regions. Horizon, in turn, has contracted the California Troopers to "protect its corporate interests" by preventing other sources of food and water from getting into the city. Meanwhile, claiming that the officially sponsored relief efforts were "unfairly discriminatory" to hispanics in the LA basin, Aztlan has mounted its own humanitarian aid program to relieve those people previously overlooked. Austensibly because the place is such a warzone and looter-fest, Aztlan's relief efforts are heavily armed, and have on several occasions come into armed conflict with CalFree soldiers. Aztechnology has begun construction of a Pyramid Archology in an area secured by Aztlan relief teams. Not to be outdone, the Pueblo Corporate Council, on the urgings of Wuxing international, has begun a special armed relief effort aimed at protecting the lives of Chinese Californians who they say have been caught in the tg-of-war between California and Aztlan.
Life in the Canals:
Dead bodies, chemical plants, feces, and worse feed poisons and bacteria into the stagnant flood waters of Los Angeles. While the "relief wars" wage all around them, the residents have resigned themselves to life in a city drowned in water where drinkables are scarce. Small fortresses have been made out of ancient malls and wharehouses. Many of the former corporate employees who were not effectively evacuated have been forced to join up with scavenger gangs just to survive.
----
See, that's the kind of disaster that actually happens to California. We have, you know, building codes, and 8 point earthquakes kill perhaps dozens of people. They just aren't a big deal around here. The last time we had an earthquake in the 7 point region, we lost less than 60 people - and some of that was frightened tourists running cars into walls.
Note also that the idea of a corporation contracting a national government to prevent donated aid from undermining their for-profit aid isn't that far fetched. That actually happend in the Katrina cleanup. Wallmart's donated water tanks were turned back on the grounds that FEMA had contracted for water tanks from a private distributer and therefore did not need any free water for civilians to drink.
-Frank
So yeah, using canon California is something that you only can do if you want to tell broad farce or simply have no idea what you are talking about and don't care. But let's assume that you want to use something kind of similar to the official storyline without being 10 pounds of stupid in a five pound bag. Here's a half hearted attempt:
California in 2070:
First off, the border of the Cal Free State is just the California border, all the border movements depicted in Shadowrun make no sense at all (San Diego is the largest military outpost on the western seaboard, if Aztlan could take that, they'd take LA as well - the PCC's population is smaller than the population of LA, even after supposedly absorbing LA, etc. etc.), so we just ignore that stuff. This has the advantage that you can look up actual maps of california instead of trying to figure out what the hell is going on from little scribbles at the end of the SR book that were apparently drawn by a five year old from the BRD.
Los Angeles:
The first important thing to understand about LA is the scale of the place. The Los Angelos basin is 300 kilometers across, and that's all city. In the 20th century it was hailed as "The Horizontal City", where most of that was single story buildings, and the entire place was crisscrossed with giant arteries of freeways and streets. To get from any place to any other place was such an ordeal that people wrote songs about how walking in Los Angeles was impractical. In 2070, the population of LA is actually not much more than it was during the turn of the century, the entire metroplex scarcely crests 13 million people - but it no longer claims status as a horizontal city. Soaring fuel prices combined with changes in manufacturing and sales strategies in the 21st century have created an economic need for condensation that was simply unheard of before the awakening. So while the population hasn't changed much, the population density has. The days of strip malls and single occupancy suburbia are largely over - the Los Angeles of today boasts Arcologies belonging to most AAA corporations and several AA corps besides.
So what happened to all those extra buildings? Nothing. Arcologies were built up all over the basin in places that were determined to be most economical for that purpose, and as people moved out of the rest of the city, noone moved in to take their place. With so very much space available, there was no need for all that horizontal city nonsense - and especially no need to fund services for it. The city is now confined to "enclaves" of wealth and opulence. The rest of the city is "Sacrifice Zone" - areas where building something modern would be marginally more expensive than building in any of the other 30,000 square kilometers that make up the Los Angeles metroplex. The sacrifice zones usually have chain link fences around them, and no connection to the power or water grids. Officially speaking, noone lives in the "Sea of Ruin" that stretches between the islands of corporate territory.
Heavy Weather:
In 2069, the rains came and hit LA hard. Los Angeles is subject to flash flooding at the best of times (what with being a desert shaped like a giant soup bowl), and the lack of maintenance on most of the city rendered drainage suspect in the best of areas. The canals had long ago been allowed to fill up with broken cars and piles of trash, and the sewer system had been left overflowing during the dry season. When November came around, it heralded the largest rainy season on record. March came along and the rains did not stop. The sunshine state didn't see more than three days of clear skies in a row until late June of 2070. By then, the sea of ruin was a sea in fact rather than metaphor.
While the corporate arcologiess have done fiarly well (the Horizon Garden Arcology, for example, has its own water-proof walls and pumps), the residents of the enclave areas surrounding those arcologies have often been forced to evacuate. And the residents of the no-light districts got no services even when their homes weren't under water. Hordes of refugess attempted to leave the city in all directions, but were turned back by California Patrol, Aztlan Warriors, and PCC Troopers on the gorunds that these "looters" would increase crime in any place that they managed to get (what with them living illegally where they came from).
Power Grab:
The relief effort has gone spottily at best. The CalFree State has contracted with Horizon to provide clean water, food, shelter, and evacuation to the flood victims, at least those flood victims as came from economically prosperous regions. Horizon, in turn, has contracted the California Troopers to "protect its corporate interests" by preventing other sources of food and water from getting into the city. Meanwhile, claiming that the officially sponsored relief efforts were "unfairly discriminatory" to hispanics in the LA basin, Aztlan has mounted its own humanitarian aid program to relieve those people previously overlooked. Austensibly because the place is such a warzone and looter-fest, Aztlan's relief efforts are heavily armed, and have on several occasions come into armed conflict with CalFree soldiers. Aztechnology has begun construction of a Pyramid Archology in an area secured by Aztlan relief teams. Not to be outdone, the Pueblo Corporate Council, on the urgings of Wuxing international, has begun a special armed relief effort aimed at protecting the lives of Chinese Californians who they say have been caught in the tg-of-war between California and Aztlan.
Life in the Canals:
Dead bodies, chemical plants, feces, and worse feed poisons and bacteria into the stagnant flood waters of Los Angeles. While the "relief wars" wage all around them, the residents have resigned themselves to life in a city drowned in water where drinkables are scarce. Small fortresses have been made out of ancient malls and wharehouses. Many of the former corporate employees who were not effectively evacuated have been forced to join up with scavenger gangs just to survive.
----
See, that's the kind of disaster that actually happens to California. We have, you know, building codes, and 8 point earthquakes kill perhaps dozens of people. They just aren't a big deal around here. The last time we had an earthquake in the 7 point region, we lost less than 60 people - and some of that was frightened tourists running cars into walls.
Note also that the idea of a corporation contracting a national government to prevent donated aid from undermining their for-profit aid isn't that far fetched. That actually happend in the Katrina cleanup. Wallmart's donated water tanks were turned back on the grounds that FEMA had contracted for water tanks from a private distributer and therefore did not need any free water for civilians to drink.
-Frank
Wow.
Someone who actually makes California makes sense.
This heathen must be burned at the stake for heresy!
Badass, dude.
Someone who actually makes California makes sense.
This heathen must be burned at the stake for heresy!
Badass, dude.
Great job Frank. I may just use that in my next campaign.
As for the SF Bay Area, I pretty much never used the Japan take over or Saito. I just made it an extension of what is happening today. San Fran and San Jose show a heavy corp influence while the burbs are bedroom communities wage slaves. Oakland/Berkeley/Richmond/Concord are Barrens. Walnut Creek/Alamo are for the Rich.
Central Valley is run by the Agro-Corps. Overt racism definetly exists, but not so much from the Agro-Corps which are happy to use keep metahuman labor, but from the few independent farmers that resent the major corporations.
I have taken Monterey and Santa Cruz as undergoing a major clean up that is now a AAA Corporate Vacation getaway. Big Sur however is still a toxic wasteland. I kept some of the Piracy as well, but the pirate groups were mostly corp backed or "Free Agents".
Haven't really done anything with the Redding area.
Slipshade
As for the SF Bay Area, I pretty much never used the Japan take over or Saito. I just made it an extension of what is happening today. San Fran and San Jose show a heavy corp influence while the burbs are bedroom communities wage slaves. Oakland/Berkeley/Richmond/Concord are Barrens. Walnut Creek/Alamo are for the Rich.
Central Valley is run by the Agro-Corps. Overt racism definetly exists, but not so much from the Agro-Corps which are happy to use keep metahuman labor, but from the few independent farmers that resent the major corporations.
I have taken Monterey and Santa Cruz as undergoing a major clean up that is now a AAA Corporate Vacation getaway. Big Sur however is still a toxic wasteland. I kept some of the Piracy as well, but the pirate groups were mostly corp backed or "Free Agents".
Haven't really done anything with the Redding area.
Slipshade
Ah, fuck it.
If Deborah Jim was captured by the Haida Front and decapitated,
If Kyle Haeffner was assassinated and Daviar disappeared,
If the Sioux is in turmoil,
If the Ute is in such turmoil that it was annexed by PCC,
If Lugh Surehand was deposed and is in the book hunted by the Ghosts and needing shadowrunner protection,
Then I think it's a safe assumption that the insurgency in Cal Free and Ares managed to cap Saito's ass.
If Deborah Jim was captured by the Haida Front and decapitated,
If Kyle Haeffner was assassinated and Daviar disappeared,
If the Sioux is in turmoil,
If the Ute is in such turmoil that it was annexed by PCC,
If Lugh Surehand was deposed and is in the book hunted by the Ghosts and needing shadowrunner protection,
Then I think it's a safe assumption that the insurgency in Cal Free and Ares managed to cap Saito's ass.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| Then I think it's a safe assumption that the insurgency in Cal Free and Ares managed to cap Saito's ass. |
Why does CFS need to be helped?I mean CFShas a alrger economay than PCC pre YOTC.
This is Fanpro we're talking about, Cynic. When has anything they've done made sense?
Ares give C.A.T.o the smack down?
| QUOTE |
| The visceral and non-sensical hatred of California by the original authors has obviously continued into the present edition |
I don't like the direction that was taken with California either. I wanted to try to reverse some of the insanity with SR4, but the direction CalFree was taken in the last minute made it even crazier.
Now all I can do is brainstorm what to do with what we have.
| QUOTE |
| Then I think it's a safe assumption that the insurgency in Cal Free and Ares managed to cap Saito's ass. |
Yeah, I'd definitely say it's a safe assumption that someone capped Saito. That's one of the storylines we wanted to wrap up through System Failure, so I'd consider him wrapped up.
My guess would be the Japanese Emperor called for his death.
Others would be.....
Ares
Yamatetsu
Aztlan
Lofwyr
Hetsaby
Any of the Tir princes
The Humanis Policlub ( They objected to the Jap takeover )
The "bring back the US" group
The Pueblo Corporate Council
Mafia
Any number of metahuman groups
Frag, one of the Jap corps could have done it when they realized that Saito was hurting their interests as well as he was pissing off too many other people.
And to top it all off, all these groups knew that if Saito did die the Japanese government would NOT send anyone to replace him.
Question is how did he manage to stay alive so long?
Others would be.....
Ares
Yamatetsu
Aztlan
Lofwyr
Hetsaby
Any of the Tir princes
The Humanis Policlub ( They objected to the Jap takeover )
The "bring back the US" group
The Pueblo Corporate Council
Mafia
Any number of metahuman groups
Frag, one of the Jap corps could have done it when they realized that Saito was hurting their interests as well as he was pissing off too many other people.
And to top it all off, all these groups knew that if Saito did die the Japanese government would NOT send anyone to replace him.
Question is how did he manage to stay alive so long?
I would like to point out that the Ute Nation has NEVER done well in any of the sourcebooks, economically or politically (from the NAN books onward). It's a natural progression for Ute Nation to be annexed by its neighbor PCC, who was planning on doing that anyway for some time. I'm just wondering what happened to the Mormons and Salt Lake City.
I can't think of a single reason the Pueblo would have to mess with Salt Lake City. The area I believe was a mana sink so it holds no value to the shamans. And there is nothing valuable there for their corporate interests either. And they are the least threatening group of people in SR.
One would think.
The Saito subplot never made any sense. And for that matter, Threats 2 was a very low quality book all around. Almost everything in there was not a "Threat" in the sense of the original Threats. Many of these were guys with a political agenda that you probably didn't agree with. Or moderate inconveniences for player characters. Imps just aren't that frightening. Any spirit powerful enough to embed itself into one of your focuses so well that you couldn't banish it is a spirit so powerful that it could just destroy your foci if that's what it wanted to do! Oooh! It's an attack by a Force 9 Spirit that didn't destroy your power focus, are you scared yet?
Probably not. The Imp's special power that they can use overwhelming force to not permanently destroy your magic items is just not a meaningful threat to the world. Some guy who has a lot of money and tries to damage rival corporations through economic means isn't even news, let alone a serious contender for world destruction. Threats 2 wasn't even about world threats in the traditional sense. It was just a bunch of mediocre campaign ideas that was given the Threats title to try to hype it up. But the backlash of that was that everything in it was taken much more seriously than it should have been. Saito was given a puff piece in Threats, so everyone tried to figure out how being a dick made you a global playing piece on the order of Global Vampiric Conspiracies or Toxix Poisoners who figured out how nanoreplicators work.
You can't. Because even if all the rumors were true, even if Saito was actually a Free Spirit with th most elite portion of the Japanese Imperial Navy under his direct command, he just didn't matter on a global scale. Slaughtering evey man woman and child in the greater bay area and silicon valley is a bad thingTM, I live there and I would die if that happened. But it's just 10 million people. Even if he killed everyone, and reduced it to ashes and a plain of glass, he still wouldn't match Hitler even on the domestic front. Saito was never that important, even if you took all that shit seriously, he just didn't matter.
So working with that... here's a half-assed attempt to write that period up in a manner that puts things in perspective and sounds like it could actually happen:
The Costs of Free Trade:
The Treaty of Denver had a high price for the fledgling California Free State. While tarriffs were illegal world-wide according to the corporate court, outright blockades were not. Trade borders had been opened between the PCC, Aztlan, and the CAS through Denver, but California was barred from trading overland at all. Their borders with the NAN governments (Aztlan included at that time), and their border with the Tir were closed. California, the world's largest producer of food and second largest producer of electronics, had no markets for its products. Its overall productivity second to none, California was nevertheless in an economic tailspin from which it could not recover. At least, not on its own.
A Helping Hand:
The corporations saw potential in California. While California was busily crashing and burning, Mitsuhama was busy purchasing themselves a foothold into California's economy. For the duration of California's economic isolation by land, Japanocorps continued to supply California by sea.
Empty Pocketbooks:
The waves of privatization that crossed the world came to California as well as the rest of the world. Califrornia's government at local and national levels were forced to turn over their security forces to private control. The Japanese Imperial Marines offered a bid for the security contracts for much of the nation. People were horrified, a nation was offering to be paid to land troops onto California's shores. The Empire argued that they were no different from a corporation, and that in the world of free trade it was patently illegal and against corporate court regulations to deny them access to a fair bid. The Empire of Japan brought suit on the city of Palo Alto (the first municipality to reject their bid), and won in a closed court room setting in Hong Kong.
With the objections squarely defeated, the open bidding system was brought into action, whichever entity could supply police for the lowest cost to the Californian taxpayer would receive the contract. Then the bombshell hit: Mitsuhama Computer Technology offered to pay the entire cost of the Imperial Navy's bid for much of the bay area, making it easily the least expensive bid for that region. The presence of Japanese troops on Californian soil was assured.
Life Under Martial Law:
If you lived in San Francisco, Colma, Daly City, South San Francisco, Foster City, Palo Alto, or any point in between, the Japanese Imperial Navy were now the police, and like Lonestar or Knight Errant in other parts of the countrythey had a substantial amount of leeway in how they interpretted the laws of the local juristictions. While not officially sanctioned, the soldiers were frequently rather hard on Metahumans, Chinese, and Phillipinos. Old habits die hard, and marines trained in Japan found it easy to dehumanize California citizens who in their homeland would have been shipped off to Monster Island. Police brutality scandals abounded, but the legal ramifications amouned to little more than occassional fines - fines that were often as not paid for by corporae interests.
The Imperial Marines were implicated in a number of selective crime-fighting operations, which cracked down hard on the Philipino, Chinese, and Vietnamese communities very hard, while allowing Yakuza operations a virtual free hand to operate in the open. Oddly enough, this quite public harsh treatment did little to stem the growth of Triad operations, and in fact seemed to fuel public sympathy for Triad activities - especially in cities with a large Metahuman population like Fremont.
Marines Incorporated:
The Nation of Japan got a new Emperor, and cut off funds for the marine excursions into California, the Phillipines, and Trollish Myanmar. Most of these marines went home to various degrees of hero-worship and shame. However, the California chapter did not. The Imperial Marines Security contract was a profit-making enterprise, and funds from the homeland were in no way required to maintain the operation. Having sundered financial ties with the island nation of their birth, it rapidly became clear that Mitsuhama had just purchased themselves an Akahito class Supercarrier.
Sooner or later, it had to happen. The honeymoon ended. With Triad support coming to such high levels that Triad bosses were successfully running for office in Fremont and Berkeley, and Yakuza putting their symbols on street facing signs on Market Street in SanFran, public opinion and police cooperation levels dropped to unheard of levels. The marines came under increasing pressure from rival corporations to drop their contract as crime went out of control. Military policing methods were never intended to control civil society for long periods of time, and indeed the shock and awe of a helicopter gunship overflight eventually wore off completely.
The presence of Japanese Marines was publically perceived as a liability.
A New Horizon:
In the late sixties, the Imperial Marines were threatenable from a corporate perspective, as Mitsuhama began consolidating its losses over a number of painful economic setbacks all over the world. Mitsuhama maintained payments for ship (they still do to this day, it flies MCT colors on its world tours), but could no longer bother itself to pay for the police contracts of individual municipalities.
Meanwhile, a new megacorporation, New Horizons, was finding itself in a similar economic situation as MCT had been during the blockades. Their media empire gave them financial resources unheard of, but their new name and lack of diversification made them small fish in the big pond that was the AAA world. Horizon sponsored public works projects all over California, both to get their name out and to make their nation of origin a powerhouse in world affairs. As Horizon's star rose, California's star rose - and Horizon was smart enough to see that the reverse could also be true. Horizon sponsored Savior Security, previously a C rated corporation - a rapid influx of nuyen turned it into a major security player in no time. And that major player offered to police San Francisco for a song - literally. Horizon now owns all those songs about San Francisco and that's why you hear the Rice-a-Roni jingle every time you go to the snack-a-mat at the tridiaplex.
The irony of course, is that Savior Security didn't have the manpower to police those areas before they were empowered to perform that massive hiring program. And while Savior has one of the highest percentages of rookie cops of any security force on the planet, it also has a bunch of ex-marines that used to work for Imperial Marines Inc. One might be tempted to think that Horizon's much vaunted "hands-off" approach to management coupled with the same treatment of metahumans and Southeast Asians as before, but it hasn't really happened. Apparently if the marines perform actions that Horizon feels might cause bad PR, those marines are fired so hard that noone hears from them again. Word has gotten around, and Savior employees are just about the most polite cops you'll find anywhere on Earth. At least, for now.
-Frank
Probably not. The Imp's special power that they can use overwhelming force to not permanently destroy your magic items is just not a meaningful threat to the world. Some guy who has a lot of money and tries to damage rival corporations through economic means isn't even news, let alone a serious contender for world destruction. Threats 2 wasn't even about world threats in the traditional sense. It was just a bunch of mediocre campaign ideas that was given the Threats title to try to hype it up. But the backlash of that was that everything in it was taken much more seriously than it should have been. Saito was given a puff piece in Threats, so everyone tried to figure out how being a dick made you a global playing piece on the order of Global Vampiric Conspiracies or Toxix Poisoners who figured out how nanoreplicators work.
You can't. Because even if all the rumors were true, even if Saito was actually a Free Spirit with th most elite portion of the Japanese Imperial Navy under his direct command, he just didn't matter on a global scale. Slaughtering evey man woman and child in the greater bay area and silicon valley is a bad thingTM, I live there and I would die if that happened. But it's just 10 million people. Even if he killed everyone, and reduced it to ashes and a plain of glass, he still wouldn't match Hitler even on the domestic front. Saito was never that important, even if you took all that shit seriously, he just didn't matter.
So working with that... here's a half-assed attempt to write that period up in a manner that puts things in perspective and sounds like it could actually happen:
The Costs of Free Trade:
The Treaty of Denver had a high price for the fledgling California Free State. While tarriffs were illegal world-wide according to the corporate court, outright blockades were not. Trade borders had been opened between the PCC, Aztlan, and the CAS through Denver, but California was barred from trading overland at all. Their borders with the NAN governments (Aztlan included at that time), and their border with the Tir were closed. California, the world's largest producer of food and second largest producer of electronics, had no markets for its products. Its overall productivity second to none, California was nevertheless in an economic tailspin from which it could not recover. At least, not on its own.
A Helping Hand:
The corporations saw potential in California. While California was busily crashing and burning, Mitsuhama was busy purchasing themselves a foothold into California's economy. For the duration of California's economic isolation by land, Japanocorps continued to supply California by sea.
Empty Pocketbooks:
The waves of privatization that crossed the world came to California as well as the rest of the world. Califrornia's government at local and national levels were forced to turn over their security forces to private control. The Japanese Imperial Marines offered a bid for the security contracts for much of the nation. People were horrified, a nation was offering to be paid to land troops onto California's shores. The Empire argued that they were no different from a corporation, and that in the world of free trade it was patently illegal and against corporate court regulations to deny them access to a fair bid. The Empire of Japan brought suit on the city of Palo Alto (the first municipality to reject their bid), and won in a closed court room setting in Hong Kong.
With the objections squarely defeated, the open bidding system was brought into action, whichever entity could supply police for the lowest cost to the Californian taxpayer would receive the contract. Then the bombshell hit: Mitsuhama Computer Technology offered to pay the entire cost of the Imperial Navy's bid for much of the bay area, making it easily the least expensive bid for that region. The presence of Japanese troops on Californian soil was assured.
Life Under Martial Law:
If you lived in San Francisco, Colma, Daly City, South San Francisco, Foster City, Palo Alto, or any point in between, the Japanese Imperial Navy were now the police, and like Lonestar or Knight Errant in other parts of the countrythey had a substantial amount of leeway in how they interpretted the laws of the local juristictions. While not officially sanctioned, the soldiers were frequently rather hard on Metahumans, Chinese, and Phillipinos. Old habits die hard, and marines trained in Japan found it easy to dehumanize California citizens who in their homeland would have been shipped off to Monster Island. Police brutality scandals abounded, but the legal ramifications amouned to little more than occassional fines - fines that were often as not paid for by corporae interests.
The Imperial Marines were implicated in a number of selective crime-fighting operations, which cracked down hard on the Philipino, Chinese, and Vietnamese communities very hard, while allowing Yakuza operations a virtual free hand to operate in the open. Oddly enough, this quite public harsh treatment did little to stem the growth of Triad operations, and in fact seemed to fuel public sympathy for Triad activities - especially in cities with a large Metahuman population like Fremont.
Marines Incorporated:
The Nation of Japan got a new Emperor, and cut off funds for the marine excursions into California, the Phillipines, and Trollish Myanmar. Most of these marines went home to various degrees of hero-worship and shame. However, the California chapter did not. The Imperial Marines Security contract was a profit-making enterprise, and funds from the homeland were in no way required to maintain the operation. Having sundered financial ties with the island nation of their birth, it rapidly became clear that Mitsuhama had just purchased themselves an Akahito class Supercarrier.
Sooner or later, it had to happen. The honeymoon ended. With Triad support coming to such high levels that Triad bosses were successfully running for office in Fremont and Berkeley, and Yakuza putting their symbols on street facing signs on Market Street in SanFran, public opinion and police cooperation levels dropped to unheard of levels. The marines came under increasing pressure from rival corporations to drop their contract as crime went out of control. Military policing methods were never intended to control civil society for long periods of time, and indeed the shock and awe of a helicopter gunship overflight eventually wore off completely.
The presence of Japanese Marines was publically perceived as a liability.
A New Horizon:
In the late sixties, the Imperial Marines were threatenable from a corporate perspective, as Mitsuhama began consolidating its losses over a number of painful economic setbacks all over the world. Mitsuhama maintained payments for ship (they still do to this day, it flies MCT colors on its world tours), but could no longer bother itself to pay for the police contracts of individual municipalities.
Meanwhile, a new megacorporation, New Horizons, was finding itself in a similar economic situation as MCT had been during the blockades. Their media empire gave them financial resources unheard of, but their new name and lack of diversification made them small fish in the big pond that was the AAA world. Horizon sponsored public works projects all over California, both to get their name out and to make their nation of origin a powerhouse in world affairs. As Horizon's star rose, California's star rose - and Horizon was smart enough to see that the reverse could also be true. Horizon sponsored Savior Security, previously a C rated corporation - a rapid influx of nuyen turned it into a major security player in no time. And that major player offered to police San Francisco for a song - literally. Horizon now owns all those songs about San Francisco and that's why you hear the Rice-a-Roni jingle every time you go to the snack-a-mat at the tridiaplex.
The irony of course, is that Savior Security didn't have the manpower to police those areas before they were empowered to perform that massive hiring program. And while Savior has one of the highest percentages of rookie cops of any security force on the planet, it also has a bunch of ex-marines that used to work for Imperial Marines Inc. One might be tempted to think that Horizon's much vaunted "hands-off" approach to management coupled with the same treatment of metahumans and Southeast Asians as before, but it hasn't really happened. Apparently if the marines perform actions that Horizon feels might cause bad PR, those marines are fired so hard that noone hears from them again. Word has gotten around, and Savior employees are just about the most polite cops you'll find anywhere on Earth. At least, for now.
-Frank
I'm surprised no one's commented on that fact that, "Lugh Surehand was deposed and is in the book hunted by the Ghosts and needing shadowrunner protection".
IE's? Pah. The only IE that people talk about around here is Fortune.
Actually I wondered about that too. The fact that he was deposed was thrown out there rather nonchalantly. I suppose it was something that was cut due to word count. Is there any info about it in SR4? And I agree with FrankTrollman about Threats 2, but I did really like the Sheidem and Templar chapters though.
Yeah, the Master Shedim was cool.
And, no, I can't find any references to him or the insurrection in the core book.
And, no, I can't find any references to him or the insurrection in the core book.
Yes Frank certainly did gloss over a lot....which he is quite prone to do. 
Master Shedim, which are one nasty ass point-source threat. Deus piecing himself back together on the outside? I find a fully function and free Deus is a little more than just someone you don't share your politics with. Ares hooking up with or being subverted by bugs in a bizzare plan to provide Supra Seekrit beefed up security teams? I'll call that a threat, if only for just how bad it could go.
Pax and the rest of the Dissonance crew? Well the threat of them was kinda undermined when they had their cyber asses handed to them in Shadow talk. But other than that they were a commited global conspiracy of people, that should have been commited, with what appeared to be enough organization and skill to make bad things happen. Of course SF bore that out.
Even on the imps he misses the point. It is that the imps seduce a mage into binding, subvert the mind of the binder, seem to drain them away, and eventually kill them. Global in scope? Nah. A little on the tame side? Perhaps. Better placed into a critters book? Likely. A little more than just something that keeps you from destroying your own foci? Well duh.
P.S. There were weak entries though. For example the Drakes and the Human-Dart-Board-To-Be.
Master Shedim, which are one nasty ass point-source threat. Deus piecing himself back together on the outside? I find a fully function and free Deus is a little more than just someone you don't share your politics with. Ares hooking up with or being subverted by bugs in a bizzare plan to provide Supra Seekrit beefed up security teams? I'll call that a threat, if only for just how bad it could go.Pax and the rest of the Dissonance crew? Well the threat of them was kinda undermined when they had their cyber asses handed to them in Shadow talk. But other than that they were a commited global conspiracy of people, that should have been commited, with what appeared to be enough organization and skill to make bad things happen. Of course SF bore that out.
Even on the imps he misses the point. It is that the imps seduce a mage into binding, subvert the mind of the binder, seem to drain them away, and eventually kill them. Global in scope? Nah. A little on the tame side? Perhaps. Better placed into a critters book? Likely. A little more than just something that keeps you from destroying your own foci? Well duh.
P.S. There were weak entries though. For example the Drakes and the Human-Dart-Board-To-Be.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| I'm surprised no one's commented on that fact that, "Lugh Surehand was deposed and is in the book hunted by the Ghosts and needing shadowrunner protection". |
say wha'!? where's that!?
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| I'm surprised no one's commented on that fact that, "Lugh Surehand was deposed and is in the book hunted by the Ghosts and needing shadowrunner protection". |
For me Lugh was the most faceless and boring IE in SR canon, so i don't care.
Mon dieu, une elvish revolution...
Say exactly how are some Shadowrunners supposed to protect Lugh if he can't himself? He didn't lose his grimoire along the way or something, now did he?
Even boring IE should have somewhere upwards of 7000 Karma spent over the years. As a VERY carefull estimation.
Ah, bring on the new Tir sourcebook, I'm curious.
Say exactly how are some Shadowrunners supposed to protect Lugh if he can't himself? He didn't lose his grimoire along the way or something, now did he?
Even boring IE should have somewhere upwards of 7000 Karma spent over the years. As a VERY carefull estimation.
Ah, bring on the new Tir sourcebook, I'm curious.
I'm really surprised by that, but personally I'd be happy to see an immortal elf or three get bumped off. They've become the ultimate untouchables (short of Lowfyr) with their only littel scret police and 'old' boys club and on and on. Screw rock the boat, sink the @#$@#
Turns out that whole Immortal Elf thing was just something Lugh Surehand spread around to score with the IE groupies. He was actually just an elf poser from Toledo that Harley was forced to bring in and prop up when Harley lost a drunken party bet with Hestaby (something about speed consumption of a jar of pickled eggs).
Then one fateful day poor ol' Lugh wore the exact same Spanish Fop costume as Harley to an elven fancy dress masquerade cotillon. Well Harley was sooooo pissed he cut Lugh loose, fired up his Lucifer Deck, dropped a few tidbits of info about Lugh on the Matrix boards, and let the circling sharks do the rest.
Hmmmm. Wonder what typical pay is for freelance SR work on the metaplot. Maybe i should fire off a portfolio?
Then one fateful day poor ol' Lugh wore the exact same Spanish Fop costume as Harley to an elven fancy dress masquerade cotillon. Well Harley was sooooo pissed he cut Lugh loose, fired up his Lucifer Deck, dropped a few tidbits of info about Lugh on the Matrix boards, and let the circling sharks do the rest.
Hmmmm. Wonder what typical pay is for freelance SR work on the metaplot. Maybe i should fire off a portfolio?
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| Ares hooking up with or being subverted by bugs in a bizzare plan to provide Supra Seekrit beefed up security teams? I'll call that a threat, if only for just how bad it could go. |
And not say the countless nukes they have? Cause Ares having nukes and thor shots is nothing compared to a small number of bugs spirits in far way labs and shit.
But if the bug spirits manage to escape and capture the nuke and thor shot... than it's a real threat to the whole world.
But not very likely to happen.
But not very likely to happen.
| QUOTE (Cynic project) | ||
And not say the countless nukes they have? Cause Ares having nukes and thor shots is nothing compared to a small number of bugs spirits in far way labs and shit. |
Nukes don't merge with your managers.
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||||
Nukes don't merge with your managers. |
Your right, nukes can just kill every man woman and child on earth.
Bugs can I don't know take over a city.
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Los Angeles: |
Hm. Certainly an interesting idea, but is it really possible? I mean, as you mentioned, the LA basin is a very large place, and rather far above sea level if I recall, with no large lakes and rivers looming overhead. Add to that the rather large network of canals and such drawing water from up north which are really too big and fast-moving to get clogged up with garbage, and I'm wondering if Is it really possible for a flood to take out LA.
Wildfires, however; that may be a possibility. It's not even that far-fetched; it's a common joke around here that LA has only one season: fire season.
It gets really bad around here, especially since we're essentially surrounded by the same arid grasslands that LA grew out of. Grasslands are supposed to burn every few years or so, to get rid of all the dried out plant debris that builds up from year to year, but noone lets it burn, so when a fire does get out of control it gets really wild. Every once in awhile there's a draught--this IS a dessert, after all--and the Santa Anna winds dry everything out, turning the whole area into a ginat bonfire waiting to happen. Combine this with lack of funding for city departments due to arcologies declaring extranationality, and you've got a recipe for Fun Stuff.
| QUOTE (Cynic project @ Sep 9 2005, 01:30 PM) |
| Your right, nukes can just kill every man woman and child on earth. Bugs can I don't know take over a city. |
Um, the bugs can take over Ares. That is why they are bad for Ares.
Or is this about why they are in Threats 2? Well i think there is room for more than one world threatening source. And nukes are kinda boring for 'runners compared to dogs with roaches inside them.
Yes, the bugs can lead to the death of every man, woman, and child on earth. They could even use nukes to do that. But that is doubtful because that would severely diminish their host supply.
..that gives a whole new meaning to the idea that after WW4, roaches will be the dominant race...
If they manage to defeat the Drop Bear Army. 
Well, my guess is, this would be much more like a hostile takeover than an actual defeat... well, at least 'hostile takeover' gets us back on topic in multiple ways. 
And adds a new idea to the Drop Bear-thread.
@Eyeless Blonde: Was LA ever destroyed or damaged badly by such a desert fire?
@Eyeless Blonde: Was LA ever destroyed or damaged badly by such a desert fire?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.