Need help here, played a game tonight with the mage in the group slinging mana bolt at force five everywhere and it seems very powerful over elemental spells.

Magic 5
Spell casting 5

so 10 dice casting a force 5 mana bolt = 3 hits

Mana bolt is resisted by will power, average grunt willpower 4 = 1 hit

net result 2 hits and the grunt takes force 5 + 2hits or 7 boxes of physical damage.

The mage only has to resist force/2 = 2 boxes of damage

With his willpower 4 and logic 3 (total 7) he should get 2 hits average for an easy soak.

why would a mage ever cast lightning bolt, that has a much higher drain and more chance of being resisted by someone wearing armour and with a high body.

Have i got something wrong?

Electricity damage is a LOT nastier now than it was before. Just look at the rules for it on p154, and you'll see that it has a chance to knock people out of the combat even if the damage is resisted. If you want to do damage, and still have a chance of instantly taking down the target of the effect, use Electrical damage. Even drones and vehicles can be "shorted out" by it.

Indeed those elemental damage rules are pretty nifty.

So on this topic. Drain seems to be lower in this edition. Spells seem to be more powerful. Anyone else who has tested playing the game who can speak up about the ballance there.

Stunbolt is your new god, as long as you aren't afraid to Overcast... the EXTREMELY low drain and the boxes of stun damage pretty much guarantee that you will be taking down one person every initiative pass with zero drain.

Electricity damage is also your new god, for mundanes with StickNShock and for folks who like Lightning Bolt. It's very difficult to make that Body + Willpower (3) roll. Our entire team was taken out by a combination of StickNShock and Neurostun (the one person who managed to not get hit by the StickNShock). Wear non-conductive armor, folks.

Antidote has to be the crappiest spell in the book.

Thanks for the help guys.

Manabolt is ten times more useful than any indirect combat spell. MAG+spellcasting vs. WIL, with F/2, round down, for drain. Lo, I have become Death.

Compare to Flamethrower, which is MAG+Spellcasting vs. Reaction to score a hit, then the target resisting with BOD + 1/2 impact, and a chance that the armor will convert the damage to stun. Spellcaster suffers F/2+3. With a Force 5 Manabolt, 2 hits are needed to soak the drain. With a Force 5 Flamethrower, 5 hits are needed to soak the drain. Lo, I have become a Doofus who sets off sprinklers.

Yes, Flamethrower gets secondary effects, but for sheer damage done to drain ratio, Manabolt every time.

By the way, I want to complain about the way the spells are listed. Manabolt appears under D alphabetically, because it's listed in a group with Death Touch, and so on.

It's always been true that the combat spells like Manabolt are much more efficient than elemental manipulations when it comes to damage over drain ratios. In SR3 at least, you had visibility and cover modifiers affecting the casting. That in turn meant a decent chance that any given stunball totally whiffed under bad conditions. On the other hand, a fireball was guaranteed devastation.

Really, it's a matter of situation. Lightning bolt has all those neat effects. Fireball ought to cook off EX ammo and grenades nicely. Since EX is now the ultimate choice in ammo, it seems likely that your enemies will be carrying a lot of it. Nice to clear out a room with one shot, even if it does cause you to take drain.

Reminds me of the Force 9 Exclusive stunbolt for a TN of 2 I love(d) that one.

Fortune: I've never accepted the argument that stun damage is as good as physical damage. In the chaos of combat, your assumption that once they're down they're at your mercy is a very big one.

Fireball might have killer drain...but it still has style value, particularly for all us pyromaniacs.