Ambidexterity is now more of a hinderance than a help. I have to split my dice pool to use two weapons at once. So as before I may have been able to start with 8 dice to hit a target of 5, I now get 4 twice. They however have this listed as a positive thing that I would want to spend points on.

How is this a positive thing?

It is a positive thing that you can use either hand to do a task. Ambidexterity is NOT about doing things with both hands at the same time, it is about doing a task equally well regardless of which hand you do it with.

I don't know when they (the mods) are planning on closing down the SR4 forum, but for now all the SR4 questions would probably be better answered in the SR4 forum.

Sorry to have bother you. I will move my topic.

Not a bother, I just want to see you get the help you want/need. I would have responded the same if you posted in any other forum, just pointing out the correct forum is all.

lots of gm's felt this was way too broken, mi gm did. so this is a posative thing because people can still have it with their characters, and gm's can still feel like they are running a working world.

let's face it, my old character would lay waste to everything around him unless they took cover or had hardened armor. my gm got tired of it and we developed a house rule.

<edited out for being redundant>

You could wield a warhawk (or whatever they are called now) in each hand, thus getting around the fact that it is an SS weapon.

Also, where the target dosen't have a lot of dodge dice, you get twice the base damage of your weapon (since weapons base damage is usually a much greater contributor to actual damage than your skill).

Having to cyber forearms, each with a gyromount, and wielding two gas vented machine pistols or SMG and using burst fire to bottom out your targets dodge pool may be a good way to jack up the damage. I haven't run the numbers yet...

Dunno, dual wielding two MGL-6s with IA launch weapons:6 sounds pretty mean...

That's 4 grenades an action, do you need to be smartlinked to use a grenade link?

I never let my players get an extra action just because they were wielding two weapons. I don't believe wielding two guns suddenly lets you have 4 simple actions.

Now it did give you a lot more ammo. 30 rounds of HP instead of just the 15.

The MGL-6 is pistol sized, with the MGL-12 being rifle sized. Nost of the listed GLs are SA, iirc.

I doesn't matter if it's realistic. Niether is shooting lightning bolts out of your hands. What matters is that it's cool.
And to dual wield anything well, you must make a huge investment.
Especially pistols. Then you figure in that you lose your SGL (I let you use laser sights if both guns are firing at the same target), and the recoils stack (most pistols have 0 RC, and fixing that screws up your concealability).
It is an advantage if you're an adept and you've spent all of your points in reflexes and improved firearms, but not really for anyone else.

my mundane likes it well enough, but it is a huge investment, and useless or near enough once the target takes cover, has hardened armor, or you take tn modifiers. the only way around it really is a suport mage with enhanced aim on you.

and mmu1 is right, the smartlink option rules unless people are willing to confront you openly. once my gm started using cover, he thought it would impact things, but my character still had a smartlink, so it only slowed him down to normal.

My beef is with this is many fold and takes strange trips along the way.

Off hand fighting... pain in the butt. This comes from the 2 sets of spurs rules. You can buy an off hand weapon skill and then you get to use you full main skill and half of the off-hand skill.

ex: Cyber Implant Weaponry: 6 Off-Hand Cyber Implant Weaponry: 6
He gets 6 + 3 = 9d while fighting with two spurs.

8-pts ambidexterity allows you to NOT need a specialized off hand skill which means a fully ambidexstrous person with spurs on each hand and a cyber implant weaponry skill of 6 gets 1.5 times his skill: 9 dice again.

Now the problem. If you can do this why can't adepts who fight unarmed by an off hand unarmed combat skill and add half of that to their unarmed skill? Shouln't that mean that a phys ad with full ambidexterity automatically gets 1.5 times his unarmed combat skill because he's fighting with both hands?

The entire two fisted fighting rules leave a sour taste in my mouth, am I missing something?

Sunday

yup, you're missing something.

it's not 2 fisted, but 2 weapons. (kinda broken i know)

physads get a bonus if they use either a focus or an adept power.

but your example only touched on the unarmed part, is there any beef with ranged?

You mean, usng 2 pistols but just shooting both guns at a given target as 1 simple action doing base damage but getting the extra dice?

2 fisted generally refers to the use of both arms, each having a weapon. In this case, a fist is a weapon, there is no logic behind someone with ambidexterity getting extra dice to fight with short knives but not his fists.

Sunday

The only real "logic" is that they assume unarmed combat already uses both hands. The only flaw, of course, is why that doesn't give them an advantage over someone using a weapon in only one hand. But that flaw doesn't bother me that much, since in real life a master of unarmed combat is at a big disadvantage against someone with a knife who is merely competent (knows what he is doing).

i do believe that in ranged attacks, you don't get extra dice, you make a test normally for each attack. of course applying all modifiers.

in any event, the unarmed is definitely wierd, but the combat system in place seems to assume you are always using both hands, the addition of a second weapon merely makes it more likely that you will inflict damage, hence the extra dice.

Hmm. Should a one-armed kung fu master lose a third of his skill dice because he's not fighting with both hands?

And what IS the sound of one hand clapping?

danka