So, Chase Turns -- detailed in the Vehicular Combat section of the book -- last for 20 combat turns. So, if normal combat is happening at the same time as a chase, i.e. the sammy is leaning out the window shooting at another vehicle, how does one resolve the difference? And, does the rigger/driver character get to act in Combat Turns or only in phases of the Chase Turn?
I never let riggers into my SR3 games because I never learned the rules, but I decided to get them for SR4 even if my brain explodes. I thought I had them till I noticed the Chase Turn rules ....
Any help?
Full Version: Combat Turns and Chase Turns
You don't. It's all abstract. Just treat the Chase Turns as Combat turns. Yes, this means that instead of firing several times over the course of 3 seconds, you are firing about 20 times slower (several times over the course of 1 minute)... but this is between weaving, dodging, and accelerating vehicles, with intervening terrain (and probably other vehicles). Think of the vehicle combat sequences in, say, Terminator 2:Judgment Day... they don't get very many pot shots at each other.
In other words, you roll initiative normally, and people who get multiple initiative passes still get their extra actions, but the time delimited by the Turn is 1 minute instead of 3 seconds.
In other words, you roll initiative normally, and people who get multiple initiative passes still get their extra actions, but the time delimited by the Turn is 1 minute instead of 3 seconds.
So, to dumb it down for me (long day of programming) when dealing with chases turns, everyone uses them, driver and passengers? Interesting. I guess that works for me.
I had the same question. The pdf says that:
| QUOTE |
| Passenger Actions Passenger actions take place as normal, in Initiative order. |
This is so vague it's useless. Initiative order in chase turns/phases or combat turns/phases?
| QUOTE (ambidextrous) |
| This is so vague it's useless. Initiative order in chase turns/phases or combat turns/phases? |
Chase Turns/phases. Everyone works off of 1 minute chase turns. It's not vague at all, unless you've tried to wrap your mind around SR3 Vehicle rules for years. It's sort of odd that when you are dealing with fast-moving vehicles (faster than humans, at any rate), the combat ends up being slower, but there are far less opportunities to get in a good shot. Just make sure you translate any Extended Tests that have 1 Initiative Pass (if you were hacking-on-the-fly while in a vehicle in motion, I guess) in duration to accurately reflect the fact that it's a fraction of a Combat Turn rather than a Chase Turn.
Wait, let me wrap my head around this. Normally you go every three seconds. But suddenly when your in a car you can only go a couple of times a minute?
| QUOTE (Shadow @ Sep 9 2005, 04:16 PM) |
| Wait, let me wrap my head around this. Normally you go every three seconds. But suddenly when your in a car you can only go a couple of times a minute? |
Correct, but only if you are fighting other cars (and helicopters and drones and the like) on a freeway or in an urban sprawl or out in the desert. It's an abstraction of what 20 Combat Turns of "Drive by corn, drive by corn, drive by corn, oh look, there's Des Moines, Drive by corn, drive by corn, oh look, our target, fire at it! Damn, he got away, gotta chase him, drive by corn, drive by corn..." would look like. It's not that you suddenly go into slow-motion... you just get less opportunities to get a clear and open shot or leap from one vehicle to another. Why do you think chase scenes are popular in action movies? They fill up (i.e. waste) time while giving the illusion of action. An infinite amount of "shoeleather" can be used. Most chase scenes only focus on the good bits anyway, and that's what the Chase Turns are for. It's never meant to be an accurate simulation of how vehicles and people would interact at every given moment (for that, use the tactical combat rules given just before it).
| QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 9 2005, 04:23 PM) |
| It's an abstraction of what 20 Combat Turns of "Drive by corn, drive by corn, drive by corn, oh look, there's Des Moines, Drive by corn, drive by corn, oh look, our target, fire at it! Damn, he got away, gotta chase him, drive by corn, drive by corn..." would look like. |
"Drive by wheat, drive by wheat, drive by wheat, oh look, there's Topika, drive by wheat..."
I like it.
It makes chases last longer, without the horridly complex system we had under SR3.
It's even possible to switch between tactical and chase turns as needed, and still maintain believeability, fluidity and most importantly - fun and playability.
I think SR4 has been able to combine the best of two worlds - fluid abstract rules with a fair level of detail and realism (as far as realism goes in a cyberpunk fantasy setting...). It has fewer problems than SR has had in a long time, but some of the problems that do exist may be harder to house rule away. All in all, I'm leanbing towards SR4 as better than SR3, overall.
It makes chases last longer, without the horridly complex system we had under SR3.
It's even possible to switch between tactical and chase turns as needed, and still maintain believeability, fluidity and most importantly - fun and playability.
I think SR4 has been able to combine the best of two worlds - fluid abstract rules with a fair level of detail and realism (as far as realism goes in a cyberpunk fantasy setting...). It has fewer problems than SR has had in a long time, but some of the problems that do exist may be harder to house rule away. All in all, I'm leanbing towards SR4 as better than SR3, overall.
I believe it is intended as either/or. If your shooting, don't use the chase turns and just use normal combat turns. If your not shooting then use the chase turns. If you are shooting for 20 rounds.. well I hope you have ammo still and you really need to aim more. Also, you get to make a manuver test per the new rules, and then another after 20 rounds of shooting, and then a new manuver test. Unless someone shoots out your tires, then you get to make the best test in the game, the crash test 
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