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Lord Ben
Okay, I understand the crunchy bits. I know what cyberware and bioware will make me kill things dead and what skills I need to make my character useful.

But what about setting stuff? How hard is it to get around if I don't have a SIN? Or a fake SIN? Can I still buy gas for my car without purchasing a fake SIN? Do I even need a car? What about comm links?

I know what they all do, but what do I need to survive in the day to day world? Can I still buy a bag of Frito-Soy BBQ Chips without a wireless comm link? Will the store still accept a normal cred stick or cash? I know how to use my negotiation skill to buy Titanium bone lacing but I don't understand all about the wireless commerce, etc.
Superbum
QUOTE
How hard is it to get around if I don't have a SIN?  Or a fake SIN? 


About as hard as it was before. Nothing has really changed except that information is easier to get.

QUOTE
Can I still buy gas for my car without purchasing a fake SIN?


Sure. People still use cash and credsticks.

QUOTE
Can I still buy a bag of Frito-Soy BBQ Chips without a wireless comm link?  Will the store still accept a normal cred stick or cash?


Sure. Read above.

QUOTE
I know how to use my negotiation skill to buy Titanium bone lacing but I don't understand all about the wireless commerce, etc.


With a commlink I can walk into a store, grab an item, and purchase it without even needing to talk to anymore. Items have tags on them that computers and commlinks interact with. My commlink accesses the store's LAN, the LAN sees what item I have picked up and at the same time I charge it via my commlink to a bank account or uploaded credstick info. Sure, if someone checks the log and you didn't have any firewalls/encryption they can tell that someone w/o a SIN just bought something but thats to be expected I think (and its pretty easy to hide your personal information if you want to).

The whole system, IMHO, reminds me a lot of the setting in Ghost in the Shell and GitS: Standalone Complex.
Aeros
Sure, but for any weapons you might wanna have someone remove the RFID tags, or random security patrols/club bouncers might just see exactly what you're carrying at all times.
Lord Ben
In the fiction though there is the one girl who was almost arrested or whatever for not broadcasting her ID or something. Is that off commlink or what?
Superbum
Yeah, in places where security is good it is expected that you (if you have a commlink) broadcast your PAN in at least passive mode (some GMs might be mean and say at least active mode).

Like if you walk into a government building and you have your commlink set in hidden mode. That is an offense and for very good reason because you are a "breech" in their security.

On the flip side, it is frowned upon by those in the biz to be in active mode. Say you walk into a common runner haven or bar and you are in active mode. They will think you are a complete asshat.
Lord Ben
What if you have NO comlink though? Are you going to be in violation?
Phantom Runner
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
What if you have NO comlink though? Are you going to be in violation?

I would think that it would be analogous to not having a driver's license or other form of ID on you today.

Say you're walking down the street without ID and the cops think you look suspicious, so they pull over and ask for your ID. You don't have any. Now it is not illegal to be without ID, but they sure will give you a hard time for it...
kigmatzomat
That was a high security zone where you get hassled for assinine reasons that don't make you any safer except from perhaps mugging but is the only way the security nazis can get that "tight pants" feeling. Aka "post 9/11 airports."

You have to be able to function for a bit sans Comm for those cases where yours is lost, stolen or broken. Much like losing your wallet, it's a hassle and you won't be flying anywhere on vacation until you get a new one.

To put it in perspective: Stuffer Shack Inc doesn't give a drek if you have a SIN as long as your cred is good. Stuffer Shack may not even query your ID if you make a certified cred transaction. Corp malls won't give a drek if you have a SIN either. Pay the cred to the GAP and they are happy campers. Well, they are a little put out you aren't on their mailing list and don't want a new credit account.

The car dealership doesn't give a drek if you don't have a SIN as long as your credit is good but the government and corps make them care a bit. It is in their best interest to do the least amount of background checks they can get away with. You don't need a driver's license to own a car today. License and registration are taxes paid to the government; you think they are going to look very hard at your background when you are sending them a check?

Government buildings, airports, some mass transit stations, and major corp facilties (which may include gated communities) care about SINs and will force you to ID yourself at all times, like in the fiction. You may need a SIN to get on a subway in Washington DC but won't need one to get on a bus in the suburbs of Philly.
Mightyflapjack
Most of this stuff was lightly covered in the new SR4 BBB. (See stories in front and sidebar p209-210)

I would houserule it that even a SIN person has the right to do an "anonomous" donation/purchase using their bank accounts. A person should be able to do the equivilent of "pay cash" and send funds to a business or vending machine without sending any SIN information. Only purchases that REQUIRE a SIN would not allow this.

Now just because they "pay cash" does not mean that law enforcement or a good hacker could not track that sale. The only person in the dark about that purchase is the store you bought from.

Of course, that might work against the constant marketing/spam of the 2070s.. So I would rule that most stores want you to "sign up!" and join a membership or club.. and purchases with them add up for free giveouts like T-shirts, Stickers, discounts, early-release opportunities, beta accounts, etc.

This way, your PAN can be broadcasting you are "a member of the Horizon MusicFan Club" and sending your "member ID"... so any store that is part of the MusicFan Club can detect that in your PAN and send you offers and buying preferences, without that user having to broadcast their SIN information.
Lord Ben
wrong post
Fortune
QUOTE (Mightyflapjack)
I would houserule it that even a SIN person has the right to do an "anonomous" donation/purchase using their bank accounts. A person should be able to do the equivilent of "pay cash" and send funds to a business or vending machine without sending any SIN information. Only purchases that REQUIRE a SIN would not allow this.

That's what Certified Credsticks are for.
Mightyflapjack
"Pay Cash" is a house-rule I use.

to sum it up.

"Pay Cash" with a SIN account makes the purchaser's SIN unknown to the store and anyone except law enforcement (with warrent) or a good hacker.

"Certified Credstick" funds are untracable by anyone.

Most games don't need this level of distinction.. I myself enjoy the details.
Eldritch
Unil they start embedding rfid in all the cash.
RunnerPaul
[Tinfoil Hat]You mean they haven't? I thought that's what this last wave of "New $20s" was all about.[/Tinfoil Hat]
Eldritch
<copper pot on head> Shhhhhhhhhhh</copper pot on head>
Aeros
The way I read it, any 'heavy security' area requires you to stay on active mode, broadcasting ID info. As a shadowrunner is VERY RARELY going to be in such a place legitimately, I don't think this will come up as a problem though.
hobgoblin
hmm, i wonder what would happen if someone walked into a high sec area wearing unauthorized pants nyahnyah.gif

if everything one buys have atleast one rfid in it, then just the clothes one ones body may contain 5-10+ of them wink.gif

hell, even that new roll of duct tape in your backpack may have one nyahnyah.gif

silly.gif
Serbitar
Why should there be cash anymore ?

Is anybody 2005 weighting the coin to check he ammount of gold and silver in it? Is anybody using coffee beans as money ?

No, why should cash be used 2070 ?

There is no reason to have certified credstabs when you can transfer your money with a mental command everywhere you want.
Fortune
QUOTE (Serbitar)
There is no reason to have certified credstabs when you can transfer your money with a mental command everywhere you want.

But that transfer can still be logged (and traced), whereas Certified Cred is anonymous.
SL James
QUOTE (Aeros @ Sep 14 2005, 03:48 PM)
The way I read it, any 'heavy security' area requires you to stay on active mode, broadcasting ID info.  As a shadowrunner is VERY RARELY going to be in such a place legitimately, I don't think this will come up as a problem though.

It's a problem if you get seen on a surveillance drones' millimeter wave radar, which then wants to query the moving fleshbag with the SMG in its pocket.
Kremlin KOA
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Sep 15 2005, 10:05 AM)
There is no reason to have certified credstabs when you can transfer your money with a mental command everywhere you want.

But that transfer can still be logged (and traced), whereas Certified Cred is anonymous.

and how is that a downside to those who create the money system?
Fortune
Those who create (or more appropriately control) the money system are the ones who would benefit most from anonymous purchases and a lack of a data trail.
Serbitar
So you tell me that Cons use credstabs in large money transfers ?
Rotbart van Dainig
Let's say, in transfers that are... unofficial.
Superbum
QUOTE (Serbitar)
So you tell me that Cons use credstabs in large money transfers ?

So your telling us that as a criminal you would use your commlink for all transactions and just ignore the datatrail?
Nikoli
For your fake ID, yes, you use your commlink because if you aren't a consumer you are suspicious to the system.
For everything else, there's certified cred.
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