I thought about all those. And it does have an Internal Smartgun.

But it would /definitely/ not have a personalized grip
It would maybe have a gas vent 1 or 2, but not 3.
I could see a shock pad, but I don't think an underbarrel weight.

Not for grunts.

I could see a special forces rifle with those modifications, but not Regular Army.

Rather shock pads, foregrip, gas vent I and alternate trigger group (no FA).

Why did you exclude a grenade launcher?

Is milspec armor intended to be 'normal' for all military units? I got the impression even the light stuff was for special units. I do know we're talking about UCAS, historically very high-tech/low-numbers.

Tough to say. Current body armor kits for ground-pounders run just over $1,500 each for the whole caboodle. The vest itself is about a third of that. Would they spend 10x that for a full suit per trooper if it kept them alive longer?

@sabs: I wouldn't be surprised if they had CYBCOM hackers/riggers throwing a GruntDefense agent on each 'link then before it goes out. Their rigger support could probably keep the things up to date...Hm.

It's either their own software (free distribution) or it's a contract (user, site, etc. fees?), so no worries about keeping their software up to date. Obviously, at the source end, there's SOTA going on, but that's not really the grunt's concern.

You get it within the budget? Your grunts have it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beret.gif)

True, though I'm not terribly impressed with the contracts at times. I don't recall seeing a lot of upgrades built into the contracts from, say, Windows 98 to XP, XP to Vista, Vista to a can of SPAM, and so on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

With the 'ease' of being able to create and modify programs, I do wonder if CYBCOM would go in-house for development.

Ooh...if we're not adding the cost of programs in...allow me to revise...I'll have a sub 20K list shortly.

CYBCOM is starting to go in house already.
So I think I agree that they would have a basic "grunt' agent.. and usability, and anything over that would be downloaded into their comms by CYBCOM on a mission/deployment basis.


I did tech support for a group that was on a contract providing support to the people testing and evaluating a Laptop System to be rolled out by 2002 (this was in 1999). They were using NT 4.0 SP2 (the other service packs were not yet DOD approved), with no upgrade plans. The laptop was tough, could take a bullet, was shock resistant.. etc.
We were looking at windows2000 coming down the pike, and they were 2 major service packs behind with NT and had no plans for upgrading it. (everything was custom coded.. it was a nightmare)


I left out a grenade launcher, because it's not standard issue. I think that 1 member of a fireteam would have an underbarrel grenade launcher. Much like 1 member of the fire team would have a Light machine gun with an ammo drum.

I think that Yes, in 2070 Light Military armor is standard issue for troops in a warzone/deployment.
Rangers might have medium armor with survival mods and Ruthenium Coating.
I could see certain combat missions/special purpose units with heavy military armor with str mods, and all sorts of other fun toys.

A problem. Light military armor, with its helmet, come to 22k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . So either everyone wears it, and our budget to grunt ratio is wrong, or our budget to grunt ratio is right, and the "milspec" armors are reserved for a different type of troop.

Also, for the great commlink/software debate, in the milspec rules, a "standard" military commlink is a device 4 system, with upgrades for 5 or 6.

Why is 22k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) out of the budget for the UCAS Military?

I think Kliko worked the GDP to person versus sustainable tax/budget ratios and came up with the 20K figure.

Or, alternatively, the cost of a current US Infantryman's kit, accounted for in nuyen by process of inflation and then currency exchange as listed in 6th world almanac. A 2010 dollar is worth 1.56x 2072 nuyen. Currenlty the kit costs just over 13 grand, resulting in a equivalent costs of 20,553 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Note that said figure includes the communications functions replaced by commlink averaged out over a platoon. Once we start talking company or higher, we start talking TO&E costs, not grunt costs.

We'll also not taking into account bulk ordering savings or anything.
It's 22K retail/black market costs.
We don't know how much having 20,000 of these things built in a lot, with all the modifications pre-planned would drop the price.

I could see that. They turn in their commo gear after an op to be maintained, sort of like with a trooper's weapons when they're in garrison.


Hahahaha! Sucker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I've seen those laptops, and they're rugged as all hell. All they're good for is stopping a round. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)



I'd agree with that. I'd hate to give Pvt. Nubcakes(you know him, he's the one that throws the pin and drops the grenade in Basic) a -203. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

They turn in their commo gear to be maintained, debriefed, probably have the thing wiped, and a new image dumped on it, if they're worried that enemy hackers might have gotten into it.

They probably have two commlinks. An operational Commlink (which is what I mentioned) and a Base Commlink that never gets worn out in the field. But is their life line while on post doing their non-combat duties.

LMA wouldn't be issued to REMF's, so CYBCOM, Logistics, Administration, Intelligence(har) - anything that's really not front line wouldn't be issued that kind of armor. They'd probably get something around an Armor Vest unless they're being sent into the frontline. That takes a serious chunk out of the budget considerations if their admin & support divisions are of any decent size - about 10k a person which can add up.

We did say this was a combat kit for grunts...
This is what I would expect UCAS Military in the equivalent of Afghanistan to be wearing.
Or when they're having their little cocksman match with Sioux.

But the budget is averaged among all military personnel. If we took the combat kit and multiplied it by frontline troops, we'd probably be pretty close to where we need to be...but I don't recall the actual numbers they've got.

I just assumed a number. We can also agree on a higher or smaller budget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/read.gif)

True.. it probably would be just about right.
Course I'm one of those freebirths who hates that there are non front line troops in the military.

Also that 22K setup includes the cost of the commlink and the cost of the weapon.

If you drop the weapon, you get down to basically 20K.

So I don't think it's really that far off. Though I think of the commlink as being 'part' of the armor.

Adding in known retail values for a lot of the weapon stuff and the body armor will give you ~$2500 more to play with. So, add 3900 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) : to my previous budget, for 24,400 :(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) overall.

Of course, my kit figures have one giant flaw in them: The current US Army model for equipping ground troops comes from the days of everyone worrying to the max if PFC Ressica Mynch who runs the eagle cash card center has the absolute best chance of surviving the stray bullet that may just happen to zip in through her window (and she's wearing her body armor), or she gets bushwacked when her convoy takes a wrong turn. To be honest, the only area US infantry is substantially better equipped than its rear area counter parts, as of 2010, is in communications and backpacks. They may have a slight edge in having ALL carbines, instead of only 95% and 5% rifles, and a slightly higher per capita for some accessories, but really its not a marked difference. Rant below. Skip next paragraph to get back to SR4 bits in 2nd para after.

After all, when every casualty is a potential congressional inquiry in the age of ultra-limited war, no one wants to be the guy who said "Yes. We though that equipping the cook with old flak jackets that stop most shrapnel WAS a more cost efficient decision than giving them all brand new ceramic body armor. We're pretty sure , given the bullet went though his leg, that it wouldn't have mattered anyhow. What'd we do with the money? We bought the new Thermal sights that fit on your helmet for all the combat MOS's. No, senator, I don't value their life more than cook Bobs, but you'll admit they were alot more likely to use those thermals than the cook was his shiny new armor""

So, if the UCAS has abandoned said ultra-conscious model, and has accepted reduced soldier gear for the support echelons then potentially you could open up the budget for the infantry and tankers a bit more.

Heh.

Based on this and what Cheese just said, I think we've got the preferred loadout at about 22k.

Damnit, this thread is running away with me. I'll try to get my thoughts in today or tomorrow, but I definitely won't have time to catch up on all the posts so far.

Well, taking a quick peek at my clothing record I'd say I'm indebted to the US Army about 10 grand, easily. That includes 2 complete rifleman kits, 2 rucks, 2 sleeping kits and several other goodies. And the only stuff I get to keep is stuff that's touched my skin i.e. my neck gaiter, gloves, polypros, etc. Before I deployed we upgraded to the IOTV but kept most of our kit the same. After the deployment, we turned in our IOTVs to be used by the next deploying unit and picked up IBAs for garrison.

And I'd definitely say that although the REMFs get the same armor setup, they definitely do not get the same weapon setup. I've been in both a headquarters company and a line company. The line companies easily have 90% to 10% M4 to M16, and the M16s are only reserved as a back-up weapon for the M-249/240 gunners. They also pack the better optics (ACOGs). M203s and other crew-served weapons are usually 1-2 per squad, based on how many soldiers per squad.

I still think the only implant every soldier would get is the sleep regulator, no matter what MOS. WAY too useful to pass up. I'm pretty sure the soldier would get a garnishment to pay for it or have a minimum enlistment of 4 years. Other than that, I'd think only datajacks and sim modules would really be standard implants. Everything else would be implanted based on MOS or built into helmets/eyepro/earpro.

There's regular Kamikaze, not K-10. Doesn't do quite as much, but still gives a significant boost for a significant crash, afterwards.



All the side effects are fluff. What matters is mechanics. It should say you need to do composure tests in certain situations, but there is no such thing in the book. The world works as the mechanics say it does, unless you change the mechanics via house-rules.

There were some good posts above about equipment. while I don't agree with all the opinions, I don't think I can add much of value - other than my own opinion, so...