And they don't have to buy Magic.

Indeed... The Only Drawback is they get no Conjuration Skills. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I was referring to the fact that metahuman mages are very often stronger in the magician role than free spirits, since they tend to have more dice for spellcasting and can summon spirits noticeably stronger than a free spirit PC. I'm not saying FSPCs can't serve as a magician, only that they tend to be a lot weaker than traditional magicians unless they hyperspecialize.

The only bonuses a Free Spirit cannot use are from Foci. They can use any other bonus out there, Including Specialization, Initiation and the Mentor Quality. The ONE free spirit I created had a 4 Casting Skill, and a 6 Magic. 10 Dice to start with. About typical for a Starting Mage. I agree that Foci give the Metahuman the potential to outstrip the Free Spirit given a bit of time. But that does not have to be the case. And, I think that Free Spirit Powers make up for that quickly as well.

There's also Focus Addition that Free Spirits don't have to deal with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

There is that...
And with the right Pacts, A Free Spirit will quickly outstrip the PC's in Karma Gain. "Life Pact" for the Win.

Except that most of these powers are available to any magician PC for an investment of far less points, because he can summon a spirit who has them.

Which is irrelevant, because those spirits are NPC's controlled by the GM. We are not talking about how much stronger NPC spirits are to equal-force PC spirits (which is a fair bit), we are talking about how FSPC's have some very significant advantages over most other PC's. You just can't play a FS like a normal character.

Isn't it more like: those spirits are PC's controlled by you, unless you run out of favors?

Not really. Summoned spirits (not free spirits, at least most of the time) are obligated to do things that you ask them to do, but they are not PC's under your control. They are still NPC's. For one thing, only they decide whether they use Edge on any given action or not; you have no control over how they use their Edge. For another thing, the books strongly encourage GM's to play spirits as fully intelligent beings who are persons in their own right (a.k.a. they are NOT the magical equivalent of an Agent).

Agreeing with you here, except that even Agents are still mostly NPCs. It's why they introduced the "Adaptability" autosoft in Unwired and have tests for the GM to roll to see how well the Agent interprets the PCs commands and all that.

The only example of "NPC controlled by the PC" that I can think of is when a mage is possessed by a spirit the mage summoned, and SM suggests that the GM let the PC control the spirit's actions in this case.

Minor detail here: the Mentor Spirit Quality is not available to Free Spirit PCs. (Runner's Companion, page 93.)

Cuz it would be ridiculous. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not as in OP, but as in… mentor spirit-spirit.

Strange...I'm not seeing why a spirit PC shouldn't have the Mentor Spirit quality. What harm does it cause?. Aside from the ridiculous wording of mentor spirit-spirit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I mean, mentor spirits aren't actually spirits, right? More like ideas, templates, eidos, arche, etc...

"Each mentor spirit embodies an ideal, a mythic image or archetype."

Someday I have to come up with the Toaster Mentor...

We need more toasters in the world.

Apparently I missed that... Apologies.

But thematically, I think it is appropriate. A Free Spirit of Death could be beholden to The Dark King, for example.

I don't understand it either, but it is clear in the text.

Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Having played a free spirit for nearly 6 months now, I feel without doubt the mage is MUCH better at magic. Lets look at why:

Mages can sustain spells by: foci, bound spirits, ally spirits and concentration. The concentation sucks as its -2 on almost everything per sustained spells
Mages can boost their spells by foci, bound spirits, ally spirits, the magic attribute and skill. The attributes and skills are hard to increase as they require huge amounts of karma
Mages can access all spirit powers by summoned spirits, bound spirits and ally spirits. They can change which ones they have access to.

So now lets compare that spirits
Spirits can sustain spells by: concentration (which as stated previously sucks)
Spirits can boost their spells by the magic attribute and skill.
Spirits have to pick a small subset of the spirit powers and cannot change them

A starting mage could have a mentor spirit, a foci rank 4, and a bound spirit rank 4 a total of 6 die for most spells, and 10 die when they want to use a service better off
Experienced mages are even better: a mentor spirit, an ally spirit rank 4, a bound spirit rank 4, and a rank 4 foci a total of 14 die better than the spirit.

The inability to sustain spells easy is probably the biggest pain: I don't think I have played a mage that could not easily sustain 2 spells. Sustain foci cost 30K, and 3 bp for a total of 9 bp.
The combination of all of the above basically makes the spirit a second class spell caster

Having said all that I love playing my spirit, probably more than I like playing mages.

Do spirits just do (Str/2)stun damage and (Str/2) physical damage with natural weapons.
And what about in astral space? Do they do (Cha/2)stun or (Force/2)stun.
And is that then upped by natural weapons in astral to be physical condition track damage?
Regardless I figure the attack counts as a non normal weapon for bypassing armor.

What is the main advantage of a free spirit?
Quickening spells!!!
You do not get any disadvantages from doing so.
You are dual natured, you shine like a chrismas tree so what the fuck.
The best spell is increase attribute by the way. (This is actually the case, because the attributes of a free spirit go down, as his force goes down)

Example:
A elf shaman has a quickend attribute spell to increase his charisma from 5 to 12.
The spell has a Force of 8.
Now he is entering BC.
BC1: Force of spell:7 Charisma 12
BC2: Force of spell:6 Charisma 11
BC3:Force of spell: 5 Charisma 10
BC4: Force of spell: 4 -> Spell fails! Charisma 5.
Spirit with same attributes and magic 8:
BC1: Charisma 10 (augmented max)
BC2: Charisma 9 (augmented max)
BC3: Charisma 8
BC4: Charisma 6
BC5: Charisma 5.

The only real Problem for quickend spell (if you have extended masking) is to be broken by a ward. For that you have to walk trough a ward without noticing it. Ever walked throug a wall without noticing it? I do not thinks so. Even the elevator driving through a Ward ain't a Problem. You just go astral.

(To Free spirits and Mentor spirit: I would houserule this section anyway. )

What do you get for beeing a free spirit:
Armor raiting equal to Force*2! (And you may wear additional armor if you like)

Since the rules for realistic form are insanly broken the combination of realistic Form and multible Form is just great.
1.5 Power Points for the wet dream of every Face in the book. Look like anyone or anything you want in just a sec. Race (actually species), Gender, cloth. No problem at all. You get anything at any time. (And thats the part, thats not broken. Turining your Hand into a Lasercannon is)
(Well, your GM could disallow you from using your Foms as weapons by housrouling the part about spirit toasters working (stupid thing to begin with)
But you still can pick up natural weapon and turn into a mosikto and sting someone for Force damage.
(Finally I know what the white rabbit was I way you needed a holy handgranade to kill it.)

Ability to hide inside of solid matirial. What kind of Security team is looking IN the ground?

Ability to travel at the speed of thought. (Combined with "I do not need any kind of equipment...)
Oh, and you do not need food. Or even sleep.
Since your Astral vision is always on you get no mali for it.

Immunity to most pathogens and toxics. (Since you do not have any nerves)
Immunity against any kind of nanobots. (Yeah I am looking at you cutters)

Leaving NO DNA, blood etc.

Yeah spirits are comming out under in BP gen. (On the other hand they are able to make rediculas amounts of Karma in a month (1000 would be the lower end).
So yeah if you want to run with free spirits you have to houseroule them.
I would take a look at the friendship pact.
(As a matter of fact, I would just use the formular pact for that. You may earn Karma but stops you from using any other form of Karma source.
Nobody wants a free spirit to spend two power points for getting drain and life pact. A life pact with a shadowrunner and the Secs he is fighting is just a great thing.
It is the day when nobody dies. And since Karma of NPCs is unlimited and useless for them...)


You have to get to know how you want to fly with the perception of free spirits. (I would disallow trode nets but allow them to read from a display. Since reading a display is not different from reading a book.

Then there is all this funny stuff. Like getting the group mage to bind you using invocation.
Ah yeah and you can fly.

Yes, free spirits are weaker in points. Put their diversity makes up for that on the long run.
getting a Magic/Edge 9/8 spirit is power to be considered.
A mage has to be incredible powerfull to bind a spirit of this force.
Espacially if the spirits decides to use edge... The mage could easy end up with about 30 possible boxes of drain.
And since a free spirit is able to make use of the increase attribute spell with ease he will have attributes to match his force. (12 Karma for 9 points of an attribute is a very good deal!)
Then you could apply the optional rule for adepts (taking geasas to reduce the costs of powers) for spirits two. Since it is mentioned, that spirit powers are similar to adept powers. You could also allow

I think realistic form when combined with multiple form still needs aura masking to still be that useful. Anyway in street magic it says that if a spirit materializes with a weapon, that weapon still has no more reach or damage than just being unarmed. So you could shift your from to be holding a laser rifle, but it would still be just as good as, use the same skill as, and have the same range as being unarmed. Then again your elemental attack if you have one might take on the look of you shooting some strange weapon. It is all style at that point.

The BC reduced the spell's force to 4, not 0. Why would the spell fail?

Badmoodguy, that's the thing about Realistic Form, as opposed to merely Mutable Form.

Longbowrocks, the spell has to beat their normal attribute to be effective.