..AR's that would be Colt 23 or AK-97 w/ gas- vent 3, shock pad and underbarrel-weight
and maybe smartlink and/or improved range finder- mod

them both are field tested, dependable and for most important who must get lot of them: cheap.

Heh, if I were a megacorp selling weapons, I'd make sure there's good media coverage about all shortcomings of the soldiers' equipment, at least as long as they weren't using my gear, yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Interesting run idea, btw....

As long as you don't get stuck with knock-offs. Not all AKs are made the same. Ditto with the AR-15 family.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "knock-off" AK. More appropriate would perhaps be junk. Just about every Soviet country seemed to make those things along with china; Russians seemed happy to export the design, not just the rifle.

.. i am just wondering why Ares Arms have not put to market High quality basic Assault Rifle
no Underbarrel grenade Launcher..just keeping the same 2 rc from their Alpha model, smartgun link,and ammo capasity, althought i wouldn't mind if added
Melee hardening like their Bravo model (from WAR!!)..

An elitist attitude?

You have a point.

Which brings me to:

The ALPHA family


Alpha Prime
The Alpha as you know it and love it.

Alpha Beta
The same old Alpha minus the grenade launcher. Special discounts available for law enforcement and security forces.

Alpha C
The new SMG format Alpha, specially designed for security forces in CQB. Does not have a grenadelauncher, uses Submachinegun ranges, and features higher concealability, melee hardening and a tactical flashlight by default, which is available in either standard or infrared. Special licensing conditions means this is the right gun for YOU if you don't have AA corp or law-enforcement licenses. [R-legal code]

Alpha - Civilian
The Alpha Beta in semi-automatic configuration. To sweeten the deal you get a special pain-job for free with your order.

Alpha - SAW
The Alpha Beta with a special 100rd drum magazine and pre-installed gas-vent III. Never run out of bullets again.

.. adding Ares Alpha Key : same as basic but Shotgun instead of GL...
..SMG is looking REAL good.. (maybe making Flashlight optional and optional Electronic Firing Mechanism )

Interestingly a large number of the AAA Corps have Media divisions, including Ares (Mega Media I think is theirs)

have you not read through the cannon companion? or the 4e equivalent?

i have read them, why??

I can't read... I imagine colt has the market cornered in the high quality basics

What about Europe...i guess S-K's Onotari Arms would have their equivalent of Alpha... ( wo/ grenade launcher)
( thinking of RL H&K 417/416.)

The Ares Bravo is in War!/Bogota! It has a Masterkey system rather than the grenade launcher.

Bravo, that have a Vibrosword..

..Thinking of Sierra model.. Modding it by removing Stun Baton (costs only 400 y) and then having a basic AR..
i thing that legality codes are bit off..Ares w/ stun baton having a larger code than basic model w/ GL...RIIIIIGHT????!!

Just another to chalk up to rules nonsequitors caused by a rush to get product to market most likely

i thought that too.. maybe 12R would be better choice for Sierra and wo/ stun baton..10R??

I'd use a blanket for any option which doesn't significantly upgrade it's offensive capability (not to be confused with it's capability to be offensive) so a stun baton is a relatively minor addition where an under-barrel tactical nuke launch tube would be a major shift

So, first off, I'm new here. I became interested in shadowrun a few months ago, and have started to delve more heavily into it as of the last few weeks. When it comes to forum communities, I'm normally a lurker, but I saw this discussion and, it being within my areas of interest, I decided to pitch in.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert. I'm not even a moderately knowledgeable amateur. I've fired various weapons a few times. Just to make my position clear I'm a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution, but I'd prefer not to get into that part of the discussion. Now, as regards weapons and military organization...

While what I've heard suggests that indeed, the M16 is a flawed and unreliable weapon, I have seen some reports that point at manufacturing quality rather than design as a major culprit. Perhaps the design is less robust against manufacturing flaws, and to me that is a design flaw, but if manufactured properly it can still function reliably. I remember one report of someone who'd had the pleasure of using an early run of M16s, with machined and chrome-plated parts that worked interchangeably between the different guns. That person, and his buddies, had no reliability issues. Of course, he could have been lying through his teeth, but I don't know him and am not in a position to make that judgement.

Perhaps the Militia did indeed have to show up with their gear; nonetheless, it's a poor way to run a military. The Marian reforms in ancient Rome were a major reason that Rome's military became an effective fighting force. Making it practical for anyone to be a soldier, by providing gear, training, and logistical support increased the number and quality of soldiers they could put on the field. However, in later days government organized logistics and government supplied weapons did reduce the effectiveness of the Legions somewhat, but that was secondary to other issues of the time.

Better ideas? I suppose I could suggest various ways to improve upon weapon selection for the US military. In a few seconds I came up with an idea of allowing commissioned officers to make an anonymous vote based on the results of weapons trials. Without other prohibiting factors, it might be practical (in fact, I see little reason why not, other than increased voting difficulty) to allow NCOs and even anyone who has completed basic training to participate in the vote. However, the logical outgrowth of this is that companies try to convince various people their weapon is best... and then you end up with politics, which ideally would not play an internal role in the military.

Regarding providing soldiers with a gear budget, it's not a bad idea. That said, any gear they those would have to pass basic standards. For non-weapon gear, I suppose this could be as simple as a company having their gear tested to the standards. For the extreme variety that some might desire in their weapons, I suppose they could purchase as few (or as many) as they wanted that they could fit in their budget, of whatever type. However, any weapon they purchased would be what they used on regular and random individual and unit skills tests, and if they use it on a skills test they should be able to pass a physical standards test while carrying it. It could of course get much more detailed than this, but that's just a basic idea.

I do have to agree with this; the US military is almost annoyingly standardized in some places, despite the fact that some groups are almost cripplingly unable to work together. I think there's a valuable place for irregular forces, as long as they have a competent commander who uses them in intelligent ways. For one thing, irregular forces typically function better with significantly different unit structure; a force composed of people physically disabled or limited in various ways might have smaller functional groups, so as to allow the proper capabilities for different missions. This is all simply talk, of course, but I do agree that there should be a place for irregular soldiers in the military, as long as they're being used intelligently and are willing to follow orders (or at the very least, vague guidelines).

As I said, this is my first post. I hope I didn't break any sacred taboo or anything.

The issue with the M-16 was multitude. From what I hear, it was designed for the Air Force for use to protect airfields and was never meant as an all-issued battle assault rifle. It was issued to soldiers with ammunition that used different gunpowder than it was tested with (A dirtier powder), and a number of soldiers were told many many false things about the weapon ("It's so high tech it cleans itself" when it needed more cleaning than its predecessor, "You can shoot it off your forehead" which caused quite a few incidents and injuries, and so on), and it was sent into a jungle warfare situation (Read: Damned tough on any firearm!) without practical field testing. Also, it was one of the first to be issued en mass made from a lot of aluminum and plastic when soldiers were used to and trained on rifles made from steel and wood.

Eugene Stoner, it's designer, apparently was aghast when he heard all these events happening at ONCE (This is where I heard all of this, on a biography of him, IIRC).

Hopefully the M22/M23 family in Shadowrun have mitigated a lot of the issues of the old girl. But I really wish the XM-8 had been accepted. That looked like it was properly designed and tested, even if it is still made of plastic and such...

@Rending
Really? You don't want to get into the second amendment stuff, and take the thread back away from on topic SR, yet you bring up the Militia vs Regular army argument with a vengeance?

Can't we let the off topic stuff go?

Hey, he's new. First post and everything, Daylen. And at least he didn't bring up the "Clips Vs. Magazines" discussions.

OK, automatic weapons (Burst fire or Full auto) in civilian hands? I could see the CAS going OK on this ("Look at our country, put your finger on it. Move it south. Yeah, I think I like the idea of every redneck in Texas having an AK."), but the UCAS?

Count my blessings...? sure, nor did he bring up M1911 vs M9, though he almost brought up AR vs AK... It makes it hard for me to abstain from going off topic.

Na, Texas isn't as free loving as you think. Louisiana is more like what people associate with Texas, where it comes to firearms; for example Texas requires a permit to carry a firearm, and the firearm must be concealed, LA only requires a permit to conceal a pistol, and alot of people don't even pay attention to that requirement. In 2070 I could see Cajuns joining the State Militia and getting permission to carry their full auto AKs, to keep safe in the swamp. Since simply rural areas became dangerous I can only imagine how it is in the LA Swamp with awakened alligators. I'd not want to be out there with anything less than a RPK HMG or Vigorous Assault Cannon.

"De Swamp, she also fulla de magic. But youse be careful, as de magic a de swamp, she can leave wit' you, I gar'on'tee."

I'm much more knowledgeable about ancient history (although not all that knowledgeable there, and mostly about the Romans) than I am about recent history. I wasn't even aware there WAS a conflict between the idea of a standing army and a militia. To me, Rome's army before and after the Marian reforms seemed to be similar, if not exactly the same. Just to make it clear, I'm not supporting a standing professional army or a militia over each other; they're different systems for different purposes and can (or at least should) exist simultaneously. America's bid for independence was based on what (look like to me) many militias, although they were brought into a single chain of command. As for argument points... I'm going to ignore the clip versus magazine one, because any argument over that would seem trivial (although it does annoy me, and there may be some practical reason to lecture on it, I think I have a decent grip of the distinction). As for the rest? I have opinions on M1911 vs M9, and less of an opinion on AR vs AK. Unless somebody else starts an actual discussion on those, I'm staying out of that, and there are better places for that anyways.
Regarding the actual topic: Since I'm new, and have a very loose grasp of the background material, I'll just say I'm finding this extremely interesting, and potentially useful in the near future.

"oh stewardess, I speak jive"