So basically... all of the Improvised Ranged Weapons. Which are listed in the Projectile and Throwing Weapons section of Arsenal. And are not their own separate section, but are a subsection of the Projectile and Throwing Weapons section of Arsenal.

But then you have the part directly after where you state that those very same weapons do NOT get the bonus.


*confused squint*

~Umi

To clarify my point, if one were to argue that the Improvised Throwing Weapons in Arsenal should not have the benefit apply as they were added after Street Magic introduced the power (and thus do not meet the original intention of the power at the time it was written), one would also have to argue that the "normal" Throwing Weapons that are also added by Arsenal (namely boomerangs, harpoons and javelins) also do not receive the benefit of Missile Mastery for the same reason.

And if one were to argue that the Improvised Throwing Weapons should not have the benefit apply as they are "Improvised" Weapons and not "Real" Weapons, we're right back to the same argument as before, with no further evidence or reasoning supplied as to why the Improvised Throwing Weapons should be treated any differently than the "real" ones.

~Umi

Because they are not Real Weapons? Seems pretty obvious... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Remember that word? The one I asked you to look up? Tautology?

Why do you claim they aren't they real weapons? What are you basing that belief off of? What evidence drives you to that conclusion?

I've given numerous reasons as to why I consider them to qualify as weapons. You have yet to give one for why you do not.

After repeated requests for you to do so.

~Umi

Because they are NOT real weapons. They are IMPROVISED weapons. If the were REAL weapons, they would not have to be Improvised. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Just because you consider that they are real weapons does not make them so.

I take hot dumps on Missile Mastery. Easily one of the most silly and overpowered things in the game. Oh, you can assassinate anyone, so long as you go to dinner with them? Fork in the eye for 15p! GIT SOME!

A GM-friendly and easily understood set of rules for Missile Mastery are to halve the DV on any object less than the weight of a knife / baseball, and halve the damage on any object made of something other than metal. Quarter damage from a napkin, or paper plane, or toothpick. You can still kill someone with a paper plane if you are munchy enough, though.

Because the sky is NOT green. The sky IS blue. If the sky was GREEN, then it would not be Blue.

See: tautology.
See also: Circular reasoning

So if i throw a rock or a 25pd crate of books you would halve the damage?

I would prefer the term "purpose-built throwing weapon", because a brick is not built to be a weapon, but it is considered one if you throw it at someone (esp. in a riot).

Now the question is - does the damage increase apply only to "purpose-built throwing weapons", or also to improvised throwing weapons that your average person could use as such.

Things like toothpicks or cotton batting pads are clearly not eligible.

Which is why we do not agree on this. I see it as pretty simple. Others are trying to complicate it to an extreme. Simply put, a potted plant (or a billiard ball, or bowling ball, etc) is not, nor never will be a Weapon, and yet you can throw it for damage, which makes it, by game terms, an IMPROVISED throwing weapon. So some think that because this is so, it shoud GET EXTRA DAMAGE for the Missile Master. BS... Multiple times BS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Drama aside, it *does* seem like there should be some distinction between a Missile Master'd playing card, a bowling ball, and a shuriken: non-weapon, improvised weapon, and 'normal' weapon. It also seems clear that the non-weapons (e.g. playing card, paper clip, other 'non-damaging' items) should not get the +1 DV, because just having a DV is amazing enough. (I understand that not everyone agrees on this, but oh well.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Further, I think we can agree that all 'normal weapons' (e.g. shuriken) *do* get the +1 DV, because the Master is better than a normal.

The grey area, the mess caused by Arsenal, is the 'standard' Improvised Weapons. These are items that are inherently damaging, but not really 'weapons' (stupid definition trickery aside). This seems like a judgment call/opinion issue, pure and simple. Personally, I'd go ahead and do +1 DV for these; the point of Missile Mastery is to be slightly better than a normal person, and a normal person *can* use these stats. The 0 to -3 clumsiness penalty also seems okay: throwing a bowling ball is hard, even if throwing a playing card *isn't* for you. However, it's easy enough to go the other way, and exclude this category from the +1, especially if you're worried about MM powergaming (I guess?).

Either way, it *is* a small issue (only +1 and only for certain items), so the important this is to just make a firm principled decision and move on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I don't see that either is clearly 'the RAW' here.

So to sum up...

It's BS because you don't agree with it and you say your view is correct while giving absolutely no evidence either in game terms or in real world terms other than because you said so.

While everyone else (that are clearly wrong because they don't agree with you) have given *many* references to game rules and real-world definitions, laws, etc to support their view.

Besides looking up tautology, I'd also suggest you look up the concepts of supporting evidence and facts (and no, just because you say something, doesn't make it evidence or fact).

Of course, you have yet to change your stance or provide any of the rationale or evidence requested so I'm not sure why I'm bothering (you clearly will never admit you are wrong or provide anything in support of your view)...

What part of "a Potted Plant is not a Weapon" do you not understand or agree with? I mean really... Has nothing to do with thinking I am right and others of you are wrong. Just becasue something can deal damage when used in a manner not consistent with its manufacture and end-use does not make it a weapon. They are IMPROVISED for a reason. The act of Improvising them allows you to use them in a way they were never intended to be used. If they were never intended to be used as a Weapon, then they are not Weapons. That is basic common sense. If I am carrying a baseball and baseball bat with me while I walk home from a game, the cops will not stop me to ask me about the weapons I am carrying. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WEAPONS, even though I can kill someone with them if I beat them enough with them.

Not sure why you cannot grasp that concept. And the fact that several others have stated the same thing (but likely much more eloquently, to be sure) leads me to believe that you are just sniping to snipe.

Regardless... Looks like I am finished with this unelss something of interest actually crops up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It is indeed about the mess that Arsenal created. *sigh* Oh Well... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm still pretty sure that a normal person can still whack someone upside the head with one (and rather painfully too).

No argument about that. It is just not a Weapon, it is a potted plant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And the bowling ball?

Is just a Bowling Ball... again, not a Weapon.

Then you and I are on the same page.
(At least, to how *I* would interpret the ability)

I thought that we were... from what you had posted earlier.

One gets lost with who has what opinion on which thing after 3 pages, sometimes.

No because grenades do not get the bonus.

Tell me about it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Shortstraw, I can't tell if you're making a joke? Explosives don't get it as a rule, so that's not an issue. Hitting someone with a 'dud' grenade would be an Improvised Weapon, so whatever one decided for those would apply.

I was clarifying: your post said "This is just saying 'the adept gets +1 DV on all throwing', which doesn't seem to be what Missile Mastery stipulates for e.g. playing cards." I was just making sure you weren't including thrown explosives.