And you know what's worse? The absolute most horrible, nightmare-inducing part of it, for me?

...

I'll be partly to blame for that. :'(

See, months ago - on JackPoint, I think - a discussion came up for ways to enhance Missions play at conventions, somethng to do with earnign points every time you played, GMed, or otherwise just plain helped out. And for Missions, I suggested being able to use those points to buy special, small advantages for existing and/or new characters (as well as real-world coupons for items sold through BattleShop). Things exactly like the ones I mentioned in my previous post. Nothing enough to unbalance a game by itself, but with enough of them, with a broad enough range of them to choose from ... well, "Mister Suitcase" of minis/CCG purchasing fame would have a clear, strong advantage over someone who didn't have, or want to spend, that kind of cash. "Pay to win", in other words.

Hence why I leapt to the horrifying idea of those things being put into CCG and/or Minis "booster packs".

To an extent, FFG has with Warhammer 40k RPG 3rd edition. They have small print on demand packages of cards (everything in their edition runs off of cards or tokens, or other fiddly bits) that contain new spells, items, attacks, etc.

They are only found on those cards.

And don't forget, there's the Shadowrun browser game. Who's to say they won't hand out digital content as mission rewards for discounts or even only in the browser game? Maybe they will even require missions-legal convention characters to be also present as an online game character! And the same with Shadowrun Returns! Just for SR2050! Oh my! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You two are really pushing each others' paranoia. I'm about the last person to say to play ncie with CGL, but really, wait for facts beyond what is the game developing equivalent of campaign pledges until you rage. Otherwise, it looks slightly loony.


Really? I must say I'm totally unaware of this. But we don't really care much for official gear porn anyway.

Few things, here.

First: "just because you're paranoid, dosn't mean 'they' aren't out to 'get' you."

Second: I outlined an IMO worst-case scenario. And then said, it probably wouldn't come out that way. So it's not really even paranoia. More like speculating "just how bad could they conceivably screw the pooch, here?"

Third: As I said, "all cards on the table". It serves the playerbase/fanbase no better to assume rosy-happy outcomes, than it does to go into a frothing panic without proof. But IMO, it serves us all very well indeed, to be aware of both how GOOD it could be, and how BAD it could be. "Open eyes and no surprise" is how I prefer to walk into a new edition. How about you?

Yup: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_min...=2&esum=207

*Rolls eyes* Right ...


Your first post was about that. Every subsequent post became more ... agitated and irrational-sounding.


If you'd have written more reasonable things as your and ShadowDragon's conversation proceeded, I'd agree. But "And you know what's worse? The absolute most horrible, nightmare-inducing part of it, for me? I'll be partly to blame for that." doesn't sound in the least like a reasonable, measured "let's see", it sounds like you're wearing a tinfoil hat. Because really, I doubt an off the cuff conversation with you will be used as a base for pretty controversial marketing/sales move.

@Bigity: Seems it is for Warhammer Fantasy? That would explain why it totally went past me.

Well, okay, that makes things a little easier for those times when you can actually access someone else's cyberlimbs via wireless with their Signal rating.

Technically speaking, this is going to be almost all of the time.

You do not need to be within Mutual Signal Range of anything to hack it, you just need to be able to draw a line of connectivity between you and it. You can hack an RFID tag across the world if it is within MSR of another device which is in turn within MSR of another device that, ad nauseum, is within MSR of you.

Say there's an RFID tag on a package of snacks that someone has left next to his toaster in Tokyo. The RFID tag is within MSR of the toaster, which is itself within MSR of the CHN, which is within MSR of a block signal repeater, which is within MSR of another repeater which is, itself, within MSR of the neighborhood's LTG, which is within MSR of the Tokyo LTG, which is within MSR of the Japan RTG which is within MSR of a string of satellites which are within MSR of the Pacific Northwest RTG, which is within MSR of the Seattle LTG, which is within MSR of the Redmond LTG, which, since you have a high-powered Signal device in your doss, is within MSR of your doss, which is obviously within MSR of your commlink.

Bing-badda-boom, a Signal 1 device in Tokyo is a valid hack target for you, though why in god's name you're hacking the RFID tag identifying a bag of potato chips is beyond me.


Similarly, someone's cyberlimbs don't need to be within MSR of you for you to hack them, they just need to be within MSR of his commlink.

That is for Warhammer Fantasy RPG, not the Warhammer 40k RPGs.

Roll your eyes all you want, it's the truth. Being paranoid does not grant immunity to persecution, or whatever. In an identical way, being a rampant pessimist does not mean things will always turn out peachy-keen.


Hypeerbole, for the lose.

Post #2: just a "/facepalm";

Post #6: concern about whether SRR or SRO might go with an SR5 rules-set;

Post #68: pointing out that watermarked PDFs can't be resold;

Post #146: telling someone I didn't have enough information to "yell" at anyone over SR5 ... and declaring that I'd give any new edition a fair shake on it's own merits;

Post #149: responding to a remark about how much I'd claimed to spend on D&D 3.X ... disavowing any hatred of D&D4 being enjoyed by other people, while assertign that SR5 would be the same: whichever edition I played, I'd not begrudge others THEIR choice;

Post #166: speculating on a worst-case-possible scenario ... but declaring it was probably not going to turn out that way;

Post #174: answering a rules question within the current edition;

Post #176: relating how part of the prior worst-case scenario, is directly derived from a suggestion I myself made (with different intent) within the last year;

Post #179: responding to your accusation of paranoia

Post #whatever-this-one-HERE-is: see #179

...

Now I believe, Sir or Madame, that I am owed an apology from you - for the baseless and woefully inaccurate accusation you have wrongfully levelled against me. >:\


Since it seems one other company is already doing something along those very lines? My speculation was not unreasonable.


GOOD GRIEF. You know what? Stop being a fecking drama queen, and/or a troll.

I speculated, ONCE, about how something could be done about as bad as possible, and yet still maybe look like a good idea to some marketing-department bean-counter. And when that speculation garnered the response of "holy crap that WOULD be horrid", related that I'd actually suggested it, in much more limited form. How is that unreasonable?!

Or their commlink; remember, if you can get inside their PAN and stay there, that means their cyberlimbs are yours to play with.

Which is why I routinely turn off all wireless functionality for every implant any character of mine ever gets, and replace it with Skinlink. Yes, even for cybereyes.

I've even gotten datajacks that are modified for skinlink (so that my commlink can use the sim module that's also built into the jack, without having to run a wire if I don't want to).

I've seen a few discussions on other sites about getting rid of the Rogue as a class in D&D, with the idea that every character is sorta a "thief" anyway. Maybe the same idea can be applied in SR (and it sort of already is). Everyone can be involved in the hacking minigame in some way. There doesn't need to be a "dedicated class" or whatever for a hacker.


That actually sounds like a really interesting twist to give TMs. Let them be even better at the man-machine interface. Bonus abilities or lower essence cost or something when TMs use cyber. No drop in their Resonance. Maybe unable to take bio or something. Anyway, I like this idea, even if you didn't mean it this way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Fluff does kind of suggest that the wireless on cyberlimbs is only for maintenance and street docs to fix broken limbs and all that. And that most competent runners turn off wireless on their 'limbs. But this is an area that 5th could improve on for sure.

I almost suggested that yesterday, actually.

Cool. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the concept of the "hacker" going away, with the hacker's abilities being pretty much available to everybody. If you want to play a character specializing in the technological, go TM, which would be changed to incorporate some of these changes. So they're not just copy-pasted mages. Yeah, that old discussion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Personally I'd like it if the rigger archetype was sort of brought back, seems like it's missing in SR4. VCR is just a small bonus, currently. Maybe make it a branch of the TM line? Everyone can issue commands to drones and vehicles. Only TMs can truly interface with machines to jump in to them...

phlapjack77: RPGs always reward specialization, and especially so in hacking. So the hacker will always exist, especially as long as getting a good commlink is fuckballs expensive.

Also, the idea of actually reverting established setting tropes - such as unawakened, augmented humans being able to jump into drones - is ridiculous.

This is what I mean, reward the "specialization" in hacking through the TM archetype, while making general hacking something everyone can do. They're already headed that way anyway - except for the very top echelons of hacking, it's a (comparatively small) money barrier to be pretty good.

This word ridiculous, it doesn't mean what you think it means...are you telling me SR has never gotten rid of established setting tropes, like Rockers or cyberdecks or dikote? The list goes on....

Don't think of it as "reverting". Maybe VITAS mutates or something, so that no unawakened/unaugmented person can jump into drones.

Pax, Hermit, let it go please.
Plenty of us remember how much of a mess the announcement of 4th edition caused. Let's please handle ourselves with a little more decorum this time around.

I'd like that. I'd be a billionaire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Waah im a big dick waah, broken books are awesome.

Also, Pax you do realize there's no collectable card game in the horizon or are you too busy being paranoid.

i'd be a bit more carefull Mäx, that's gonna be seen as a personal attack, as true as it might be . .

and it's a "deck building card game" whatever that may mean, where it seems some people from magic, a collectable card game as far as i know, are working on it.

Something similar to this or this

It'll be something like the new Android: Netrunner game they came out with. The announcement also stated that the board game would be Eurogame-esque, like the Lords of Waterdeep or Ravenloft games that WotC has put out (and apes from games like Formula D1 or Settlers of Catan).

I'm not going to lie, that's the part of the announcement I was actually kind of excited by. Talking to my group, they're also excited, and we hope the minis game does ok so we can get minis of their characters.

See, I like minis in the "Nice, but not 100% needed" level of, say, D&D 3.X ... you could play without 'em, but it made life sooo much easier with 'em. I mean, I have all that Reaper stuff on the way (Double Vampire, what was I thinking?!), so I'd love to put it to good use, but a game sans minis is what everyone's used to, and it can be a hard mental changeover (And expensive if you have people in the 'cardboard printouts don't count!" camp) ... maybe optional add-on rules for mini-based games as a suppliment instead of core rules? I dunno.

About half or two thirds of what you want for Shadowrun's available, mini-wise, right now, by shopping around. Guys in police armor, men and woen in business attire, all *kinds* of street punks ... not many Deckers, but a few. Drones have traditionally been a problem, but there're a few out there, now, if you know where to look.

But metahumans?

Man, ain't *nuthin'* for Metahumans.

Punk rock Ork, an Elven Decker, a Dwarven banker, a Troll *anything* ... these are the things I *need* in a batch of minis. I can scratchbuild and fake some things, but the metas are just beastly.

...which means the device's wireless functionality still has to be on. Everybody with half a brain will toggle it off, because if wireless access should ever be required it can simply be turned on again with a DNI command, just like a samurai switches his Reflexes on and off.

The whole idea of hackable cyberlimbs is the SR version of "[Random celebrity] once said [something extremely stupid]". The myth gets perpetuated because nobody wants to get facts in the way of a good anecdote.

Exactly my point. I've seen more than a few "cyberpunk" mini sets out there, which is cool, but we need elves, trolls, decent non-90s metal!!! dragons, drakes, ghouls... It would be nice to have official ones for my table.

Not that we use minis, but having something physically sitting "there" on the table would be nice.