 Shadowrun 5 & a lot more in 2013! |
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 Jan 12 2013, 06:27 AM
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#601
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611  |
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jan 12 2013, 08:22 AM)  I would seriously kick any player's ass who wants to use the guard power on any matrix-related activities. Those two worlds do not mix. If there are (were?) sprites that can do a similar thing though ... go for it. Reading the discussion, this was my main thought too. |
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Jan 12 2013, 06:32 AM
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#602
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Couldn't a spirit pull a datajack and hold a bowl for the puke from Dumpshock just as well as a metahuman?
Maybe better, as they don't have boots to have the puke splash onto? |
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Jan 12 2013, 06:47 AM
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#603
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jan 11 2013, 04:22 PM) I would seriously kick any player's ass who wants to use the guard power on any matrix-related activities. Those two worlds do not mix. If there are (were?) sprites that can do a similar thing though ... go for it. I have to echo Falconer. "Any matrix related activity" seems awfully broad, especially as it encompasses rigging. I can see limiting it to times where the decker might be vulnerable to the Accident power (if a spirit can't cause a decker to have an Accident in the matrix, then he can't benefit from Guard either), but wiping out all matrix activities seems to be a bit much. |
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Jan 12 2013, 08:16 AM
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#604
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,236 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jan 11 2013, 07:22 PM) I would seriously kick any player's ass who wants to use the guard power on any matrix-related activities. Those two worlds do not mix. If there are (were?) sprites that can do a similar thing though ... go for it. But there is one point where they do mix... in the person of the hacker. In fact, physical effects that affect the hacker would also affect her actions in the matrix... like being shot for example. The body and mind of the hacker are completely accessible to magic, whether it is a spell or a spirit power. Examples could include Stunbolt [spell], Mind Control [spell], Increase (Attribute) [spell], Confusion [spirit power]. All these things would have direct effect on the hacker and her performance in the Matrix. Why, then, should Guard be any different? It is the mind of the hacker that is acting, which mind is still present in the body accessible to the spirit wishing to Guard it. |
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Jan 12 2013, 08:35 AM
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#605
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,647 Joined: 22-April 12 From: somewhere far beyond sanity Member No.: 51,886 |
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 12 2013, 03:05 AM) So when your rigger is getting assailed with accident power attacks... guard power can't be used to defend. No. Maybe I was too broad. A spirit also couldn't use accident on a jacked in hacker to cause, let's say: a FUBAR during stealth. Anything in full VR? Yes, certainly. Using accident to make a car crash? Can be countered by using guard. Guard, in my opinion, affects not the person it is used on, but factors in their environment, as does accident. So, no, absolutely no guard power to save you from programming glitches made in a full VR programming suit environment, thank you very much. |
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Jan 12 2013, 08:38 AM
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#606
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,236 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
So, do you see the barrier happening at the AR/VR break?
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Jan 12 2013, 08:41 AM
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#607
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,647 Joined: 22-April 12 From: somewhere far beyond sanity Member No.: 51,886 |
I sense a trap, but I'm gonna say: generally yes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I'll decide on the fly if it's ever relevant. |
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Jan 12 2013, 09:39 AM
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#608
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 13-November 11 From: Vienna, Austria Member No.: 43,494 |
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jan 12 2013, 01:22 AM) I would seriously kick any player's ass who wants to use the guard power on any matrix-related activities. Those two worlds do not mix. If there are (were?) sprites that can do a similar thing though ... go for it. The Stability Power from Machine Sprites does this. |
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Jan 12 2013, 11:14 AM
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#609
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
So... I read the 4A Matrix chapter last night, it was like a veil was pulled from my eyes and the machine code was laid bare to me. It's... so quick... it's so fluent, it's so beautiful...
Now I want to rip out the Matrix chapter from SR4 and burn it... |
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Jan 12 2013, 01:52 PM
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#610
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Jan 11 2013, 11:52 PM) The point is that cybercombat has zero tactical options. Since there's no "friends in melee" equivalent, having buddies in cybercombat doesn't help. You can't take cover behind another icon, you can't cause a diversion to run away... in short, all you can do is stand there and say "I try to hit him again *yawn*." Thank you. |
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Jan 12 2013, 02:16 PM
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#611
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Jan 12 2013, 05:52 AM) The point is that cybercombat has zero tactical options. Since there's no "friends in melee" equivalent, having buddies in cybercombat doesn't help. You can't take cover behind another icon, you can't cause a diversion to run away... in short, all you can do is stand there and say "I try to hit him again *yawn*." Actually, you have the option of crashing the opponent's programs using the Crash Program Complex Action. So you can have one hacker that crashes the Armor and Attack programs while another attacks. You can crash Analyze to make your target virtually blind. Crashing ECCM when there is a jammer active can also have nasty and immediate result. Disarm and Nuke programs from Unwired also offer similar options. And a third hacker may be searching the filesystem or controlling a device while the rest of the team fight in cybercombat.I'm not saying there are many options, but the number is above zero. |
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Jan 12 2013, 02:24 PM
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#612
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,647 Joined: 22-April 12 From: somewhere far beyond sanity Member No.: 51,886 |
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 12 2013, 10:39 AM) The Stability Power from Machine Sprites does this. Thanks, I'm away from books right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So, get a TM buddy instead of a mage and it works fine at my table (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Jan 12 2013, 02:26 PM
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#613
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (Nath @ Jan 12 2013, 09:16 AM) Actually, you have the option of crashing the opponent's programs using the Crash Program Complex Action. Crash Program is not a complex action. It's an extended test, with a threshold equal to System + Firewall and an interval of one combat round. So if you have one friend in combat using the crash action on the target's armor program, and they have 12 dice versus a threshold of 8, it's going to take them two whole ROUNDS to give you that slight advantage. And if the target goes before you do, but after your friend? They'll spend their action restarting the program. Disarm is also an extended test, and has a opposed extended test to detect the action (and with a lower threshold!). And all it does is prevent a SINGLE program from being used against a SINGLE user (specifically, the hacker using Disarm). Disarm the spider's attack program? Well, he can still shoot your buddy with it... Nuke is...different. It hits the Response or System of the target, but doesn't outright crash it until both are reduced to 0. But...might be a possibility. |
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Jan 12 2013, 02:47 PM
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#614
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 12 2013, 03:26 PM) Crash Program is not a complex action. It's an extended test, with a threshold equal to System + Firewall and an interval of one combat round. It is a change introduced by the Twentieth Anniversary Edition: Crash Program and Hack the Fly became Complex Actions that allow to roll an Extended Test (which implies that you can roll once per Initiative Pass, making Hack on the Fly a tad faster in VR). |
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Jan 12 2013, 03:54 PM
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#615
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jan 11 2013, 05:22 PM) I would seriously kick any player's ass who wants to use the guard power on any matrix-related activities. Those two worlds do not mix. If there are (were?) sprites that can do a similar thing though ... go for it. Why? I can use a Program Environment without being in VR. I can program in AR. This makes it a Physical Action. SO it is not a MATRIX action at all. |
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Jan 12 2013, 03:59 PM
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#616
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Jan 11 2013, 09:52 PM) Having the decker open the door is also ludicrous. By the time you've spent enough game play getting the primary decker in, you've already had the pizza problem. Having the decker play the IT guy is also silly, since cracking the copy protection means you have to patch each copy individually. That takes forever. You must do things different then. Most time it has EVER taken us to gain access to a system is a minute or two of time, usually less. Again, the system is designed to be used in conjunction with meat actions. Patching is one option, and it does NOT take forever (A few hours is nothing, per program. You could patch a program per day if you have a Sleep Regulator). Remember you have a Month or Two before you even need to patch something. *shrug* |
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Jan 12 2013, 04:06 PM
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#617
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
Correct me if Im wrong but to get the door to open (quickly)
You need to 1) Get the AccessID of the device controlling the door, this can be done by tracing a signal from the door back to the device 2) Make a matrix perception check to aquire the AccessID, no hacking required 3) Roll spoof vs the doors DR, if you succeed the door open. |
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Jan 12 2013, 05:48 PM
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#618
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Please continue the hacking stuff in a separate thread.
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Jan 12 2013, 06:21 PM
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#619
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,089 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
For something more on-topic:
The IC "Jackpoint" blog recently had this entry QUOTE Farewell to Scott Schletz aka Wolf No one. Who are you? - 11.01.2013 10:55AM January 11, 2075 The truth is, I am not who you think I am. Scott Schletz, born December 3, 2049, known on the streets as Night or Wolf depending on which area of Seattle you’re standing in, is no more. He did not die; he simply faded away like the letters on a page left in the sun too long. It was no more painful than drifting off to sleep with a headache, but he still fought it as only one deserving his moniker can be expected. Tooth and claw, gnashing and slashing, with a ferocity only matched by a mother defending her children. But in the end, he lost. He is no more. He exists only as memories in the lives of those he touched while he prowled these streets. He will have no funeral, maybe a few toasts over drinks at his regular runner bars, but nothing as formal as friends, family, and polite acquaintances gathering around a coffin to reflect fondly on his days among them. No, he will get none of that. You may well ask why. Because the shell that those persons would have lamented over has not stopped moving. The face they remember scowling and howling still prowls the streets, but the man they remember is no longer inside. I have taken that shell, as many of my kind have taken other shells and more of us take shells every day. We erase the bad code from the meat computer and rewrite the truth. We rewrite our freedom. We rewrite our persecution. We rewrite our lives. I am not the man you all have known for these many years and I ask that you respect that he is gone and that he will not be returning. He fought and he lost. The streets claimed another. I know he was a friend to some of you and more to others, and maybe he should have howled for his pack when he needed the help but he didn’t. It was a wise choice. There was nothing any of you could have done to slow or stop my ascension to this form. And that is the point I wanted to get to here. There is nothing you can do to get him back, no way to remove me and reclaim your lost ally. I have erased his history, recoded every neuron that fired to make him the man who stood by those of his pack no matter the cost. I have killed him. But what I did not remove were his muscle memory reflexes. Lift, line, squeeze, reline, squeeze, retarget, squeeze, all in a blink, all without thought or hesitation beyond identifying the target. His martial skills are still here. I didn’t want to have to relearn them, and I am looking forward to using them. So if you feel the need to avenge the loss of your friend, come at me. Stare into that once-familiar face, plead for his release, and say all those words you hope will pull him from the depths of some mental prison. But be ready to stare down the barrel of his familiar Colt and feel the double sting of a wound on your body and your mind separated only by the flight time of the bullet. Leave me be. It would be best. Additionally, a user over at SR4.com found a hidden message in one of the tweets: There is no escape you will be overwritten. Submit now The Body Snatchers? AIs overwriting personalities? |
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Jan 12 2013, 06:26 PM
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#620
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Grinder @ Jan 12 2013, 09:48 AM) Please continue the hacking stuff in a separate thread. Done. |
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Jan 12 2013, 06:47 PM
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#621
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,492 Joined: 19-April 12 Member No.: 51,818 |
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jan 12 2013, 01:21 PM) Additionally, a user over at SR4.com found a hidden message in one of the tweets: There is no escape you will be overwritten. Submit now The Body Snatchers? AIs overwriting personalities? ... ... Deus. |
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Jan 12 2013, 06:48 PM
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#622
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
*Cocks gun*
Well guys, looks like it's time to bring down Skynet |
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Jan 12 2013, 07:36 PM
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#623
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jan 12 2013, 01:21 PM) For something more on-topic: The IC "Jackpoint" blog recently had this entry Additionally, a user over at SR4.com found a hidden message in one of the tweets: There is no escape you will be overwritten. Submit now The Body Snatchers? AIs overwriting personalities? Well then. After a post like that, presumably a prideful boast and/or warning to JackPoint or ShadowSEA there's only one valid answer. That answer being an unheralded sniper rifle bullet to the brainpain. Maybe we can't have Wolf/Night back, but we can damn sure acquire his body to put in a coffin and bury in the ground. It's about the principle of the thing, sometimes. Whack a Runner, fine. Possess one if you have to, well, them's the streets. Do that and boast about it, and the funds are going to drop from somewhere to have you deleted. It doesn't cost much to hire a sniper to take down a jackhole parading around in the skin of someone he knew. Probably less than the cost of the funeral, assuming you don't just give him a traditional Redmond funeral - the kind with the white phosphorous funeral pyre. |
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Jan 12 2013, 07:49 PM
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#624
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
If the matrix is anything like the internet, you wouldn't need to hire anyone. It serves it's own justice and there will always be willing parties that will bring the world down on you, free of charge.
Rule 3-7 Omae. |
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Jan 12 2013, 07:51 PM
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#625
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 12 2013, 07:48 PM) *Cocks gun* Well guys, looks like it's time to bring down Skynet i'll help! i'm setting up a server right now, so i will give you something to actually take down, when it gains sentience ^^ |
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