So far, I tend to hook people in by the bags when I mention the part about "oh yeah, and in this cyberpunk world, magic is back...and dragons", to the point that almost everyone wanted to be a magician, lol.

For some reason I tend to lose them when I get to Xenomorphs infesting Chicago and a dragon becoming President, and I haven't the foggiest why...



Aye, the same.

Shadowrun (while it seems goofy upfront) probably has one of the coolest settings in any fictional work that I've ever seen. Why no one would ever want to take a look at the setting puzzles me.

Although I suppose it's part and parcel of the usual paradigm that the players expect the GM to explain everything about the setting to them, and are more concerned about dropping in to play...although I've pointed out to them that if I hand them a copy of the setting synopsis of the game, that should tell them right away that this isn't something that the DM could "just" explain for them...

LOL CanRay!
If the people on the Shinconsen were freaked out, how do you think the people climbing Fuji-san felt? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Having climbed it myself, I can say I would have needed new pants too.

-D

This is actually surprisingly accurate in the case of a couple of people I have played with in the past. It is frustrating, but I have had SO little success in getting them truly invested in the world outside of the bits they interact with.


^And I believe this to be a large part of WHY that has been a symptom of so many of my players....I bet that 4/5 of my players DONT EVEN KNOW WHO DAMIEN KNIGHT IS for example, because hey, they have never had a run directly involving him! Lofwyr and Dunkelzahn are these strange alien dragons who they remember because I hammer it into them that a dragon runs S-K and that Dunky was American President. I have made it policy to demand that all players at least read the "History Lesson for the Reality Impaired" at the beginning of SR4A, but it hasnt always helped. Problem being I was not the first Shadowrun GM some of them had had, and while I know and like that other GM, he has a very....loose....interpretation of the Shadowrun setting (trolls flinging firehydrants at helicopters, anyone?) so now they dont even want to look for any depth because, duh, they've already played the setting of COURSE they know it well enough!

Now, who's gonna be the target audience?



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

You know, I did mention that later in my post. I know it is an Introductory box, I was more commenting there on whether established groups might want to pick it up -despite- its intended audiencce

I see.

There's Gaming Conventions in my city, so, yes, I'll be picking it up for when I GM games there for folks who straddle up to the table and go, "Oh, Cyberpunk, good! I used to play Cyberpunk 2020..." and I have to explain the difference.

I suspect people are missing the intended audience of the starter box.

There is a ton of other SR-related games coming out... all of them serve to advertise each other as well as the core RPG.

The intended audience isn't the guys who are already buying the core books and know the game inside out and probably don't need anything in the box except from a 'collectors' standpoint. The intended audience is guys who pick up the computer game and are interested in getting their feet wet with the RPG... or the sprawl gangers/battletech sorts coming from the wargamer side of things... or even from the card game.

For those people... the full fledged rulebook is nice... but it assumes a familiarity with RPG's and how they are setup and run in the most general sense. It is also a rules overload for most... when they need a 'rules lite' introduction.

OFF. Gaming Convention in Winnipeg? Who would have thought...

I wonder how useful the starter would be to seasoned players, already familiar with SR.

I wonder how the new Matrix is going to handle AIs and Technomancers. If there is no wireless does that mean all mancers need to have datajacks installed and take a hit to essence? I guess if its just a software change AI's will adapt and technos will just make new complex forms. But if its also a hardware thing, AIs exist only in software, so I assume they'll be okay. But will technomancers have to "evolve" some kind of bio like deck. It shouldn't be a big problem, I guess, seeing how the Otaku were able to access the Matrix without a deck. But it can't just be a software thing because why else would hackers need to make their own decks?

I think they're pretty cool archetypes, I hope they don't become useless.

An AI should probably get relegated back down to NPC-only status (the same for any Infected other than Ghoul as those were before).

Yeah, if there's going to be an "all-digital" character option, I'd rather see a Free Sprite as a PC option. It makes more sense (and less controversy) than having an AI on the loose, and it parallels nicely with the Free Spirit PC.

Oh, thanks for reminding me of another thing that needs shunted back over into NPC-only territory.

I could see it going one of two ways.

1) The Technomancers are the "exception" to the rule. Making them even more special. I.E. Everyone else uses Decks. And Technomancers don't need them. Keeping them a 'fear' in shadowrun.

or

2) The "New Net" is being purposefully put into place to -purposefully- cut Technomancer's out of the threat loop. Where in they'll need datajacks like everyone else (( and the Okatu)).

or

3) Technomancers will need Datajacks. Jus' cuz. No deep overriding reasons. Just because it's the New Net.

Some of the stuff I've read, about them putting out the open challenge to Fastjack and him opening it up to everyone, I remember Netcat saying she was able to get a peek in and at it and it felt weird. I doubt she physically logged in to do so. She used her Technomancer abilities to do so. So.... I'm thinking the Technomancers will be able to access... now if they can run 'leet and as good as hackers/deckers, is yet to be seen.

I'll second the hope that Technomancers aren't just taken out. There's an entire book dedicated to their Emergance and it's not THAT old. To put them in, make them such a big deal and then just sideline them seems... wasteful.

Oh yeah... And it felt "homey" right? I bet the corps reverse engineered the bio node. This will open up technomancers to be hacked and give a fluff reason for the new hardware that doesn't make technos obsolete. That's my theory.

...and I'm going to have a very unhappy player if I have to tell him his AI character has to get killed off "because 5th edition rules say so".

So no, no, no, NO.

NO RETCONS, NO REMOVAL OF PC RACES, FOR ALL THAT'S HOLY, NO!

If they're so bloody overpowered, just rebalance them! No need to get them axed entirely!

Also, nothing has been suggested that they're removing wireless entirely, just that the Matrix is going back to using Grid structure. Plus, it'd be just weird to take a giant step back into wired.

I think it was Dev/grrl that said it felt homey. It stood out as significant because Dev was too young to know the "old" Matrix except through secondary type sources. "I saw it in a book once" type things. (( though even for her I'm sure it was a digital file or something. lol )).

It'll be interesting. I'm very much looking forward to this year's Shadowrun releases. My wallet is gonna hurt but I'll have lots of fun stuff to read.

They're not "overpowered"--in fact for their costs they're probably a bit "underpowered", at least on normal points--but AIs, Infected-other-than-Ghouls and Free Spirits just shouldn't be PC character types.

I don't mind AI's or infected as PC's, they have alot of built in penalties. You just have to make sure you embrace your limitations.

If you don't.. well that's a failure as a player. Not the system.

What makes Ghouls special in terms of playable infected?

...so your issue is not necessarily the mechanics, just the mere concept of them being PC option?

Because if that's the case, I personally don't see a problem in that regard.

AIs and Infected I don't see any reasons why they WOULDN'T become runners, although I admit free spirits are a little bit more sketchy...

...now sapient critters on the other hand?

Well, as much as everyone loves the idea of essentially being Chewbacca, I dunno, it starts to reach unbelievable levels of silly..... (nvm that with one of them, getting sat on by your troll street sam stops being a funny practical joke and becomes a fatal occupational hazard...)

Says who?

If I want to play a Vampire, and you aren't playing in the same game (nor GMing it) ... guess what? You have no say in the matter. None, nicht, nada, zip, zilch, ZERO.

Do not try to mandate your style of play on my games via what is or isn't presented as an entirely optional part of the official rules.

Check out post #1104. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

That's a valid opinion (and one I support), but please watch your tone.

.... wait, what tone? That was only "firm", or perhaps "stern". Which, considering that I consider people advocating removign even optional things they are not required to allow in their own games to be "fighting words", is about as retrained as it gets. O_o