Mages desperately needed that buff.

I like an unpredictable initiative system, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
IP are an easier system, to be sure, but rolling X+YD6 gives more varied results and allows unaugmented characters multiple passes, too. Also, the end results usually are lower than a fixed 4 IP, while the median results should be mostly in line with the average boosted character. Elegant, but less easy to use.

sure hope that's sarcasm . .

Ah ... no?

Perhaps you should read my postings again? I was quoting a Dumpshocker, even with a link. Since then the discussion on DS moved to this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

SYL

Well, the person who described that demo session did say that passes were gone, so it'd be more SR2 system. Though, that's all good to me, I liked how that worked, as it made it fully worthwhile even at the highest levels of the Initiative boosting stuff, and there was no real room for confusion with passes and whatnot (my SR3 GM used it instead of the base for SR3--probably because it's how he learned the game and assumed it was the same).

Whether or not you think it's something they should have done is irrelevant to the fact that you cannot judge the thing as something other than what it is. And once again, how's about you apply your math to limits of 8 or 12, or consider that there may also be limits to your defense?

Not quite SR2, though. To go full SR2 would be to make wired reflexes once again the only 'ware you'll ever need. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

ah, my bad . .

I never played SR3, but SR1/2, you started acting on the highest init, and if you had an init of 5 or whatever, you had to wait until the sam had gone 3 times before you got your turn. So I'm sorta glad they're keeping the new way where everyone acts, then the extra IPs are used. It does de-power the extra IP guys some, but it also keeps extra-IP gear from being the only gear you need (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

under SR3 it was highest ini goes first, then next highest ini and so on.
and everybody who has ini left gets to go again untill he runs out in the end after everybody else had their goes.
so with 21 ini, you'd go 3 times.
and with 11 ini you go 2 times.
21 goes first-10now11, then 11-10now1, then old 21now11-10nownew1, then old11now1, then new1.
If 21 had started with 31 he'd go another time in the end.

So it was the same in all 3 editions - if you had an init of 7, you had to wait until the sam with a 18 went twice before you got to go.

I like the new way better, glad they're (seemingly) sticking with that.

*edit* I think that's what your post says about SR3 Stahlsteele. I'm having a hard time parsing it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No matter, not that important...

Going by the description this "new" system most definitly is the reincarnation of the SR3 initiative ruleset:

1. Determine Initiative through rolling dice
2. Everyone gets his turn starting with highest (remaining) Initiative value
3. Reduce all Initiative values by 10. Anyone left with a positive Initiative value? Repeat from step 2

No, in SR3 the sam went once (with 18), then you (with 7), then the values were reduced by 10 to see if someone had another action, thus the sam went a second time (with 8 )

Which does get around some weirdness in the current system where someone can have hyper-reflexes letting them act 4 times as quickly, yet act slower than someone acting at normal speed, and assuming initiative is still Reaction+Intuition plus hits on a test of the same, it's possible to get a second pass without 'ware.

Got it - thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Same here.

Once more, just for you: The whole point is that they chose crappy data for their initial presentation, which makes me question the sanity or capability of those involved. Of course higher Accuracy limits would migrate the Matrix dodge problem, but that is beside the point.



Obviously, since there was talk about a general "physical limit". But as long as that limit is at greater or equal Accuracy, it does not make a difference.

Actually, other than the venue, it makes a good deal of sense. You need fresh eyes, especially since they've been playtesting for more than a year. People who've been exposed to many successive iterations simply do not have the right perspective to answer certain questions. It is an effective method to get a relatively large number of people who haven't seen the other playtests and who are already RPG players, so depending on what, specifically, you're setting out to test, this can be a very effective method of testing.

Whether or not this is good marketing is a different point entirely - marketing people are not design people. A questionable marketing decision shouldn't in any way make you question the "sanity or capability" of design people.

Not as I recall. I actually have my SR3 book somewhat close by, so lemme go check ...

...

...

Aha.

In SR3, and in SR5, initiative is the same. Everyone rolls their Initiative dice - 1, 2, 3, or 4 of them - and adds their Reaction. The first pass then proceeds in order from highest to lowest.

Then everyone subtracts 10. If anyone still has a positive initiative score, a second Pass then occurs.

Let me correct you:

In SR3, and in the SR5 demo at PAX, initiative is the same.

I don't belive anything is set 100% in stone yet.

I just hope the core book will state one thing bold and in caps: Whether you need a positive value to go a second time, or above 0. The 3rd Edition rules were "you need an Initiative above 0 for a second pass", yet half of the players I know somehow assumed that INI 10 gave you two passes...

which is wrong, 11 gives 2.
get your BBB and whack them.

It's been awhile since uni, but I think those 2 are the same thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Does that mean you can get a second pass completely unaugmented?

No shit Sherlock, that's what I just said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But whacking so many people with books is hard work, so I hope this time they will print it big, bold, red, and if possible with LEDs embedded into the page...


@Lion: Yep, it does. Even characters Initiative 5 would get a second pass when rolling a 6.