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#1
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Tilting at Windmills ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 ![]() |
Way back in the dark days of the CGL/freelancer debacle (and I can think of no better word, I'm afraid, for what went down), there was a whole lot of yapping by a whole lot of people about freelancers getting paid. I wouldn't write for them for a while, and I knew some other freelancers that also held off writing for them. When I mentioned that I had started freelancing for them again, it was after a good bit of discussion with other freelancers and CGL themselves; I didn't re-enter that madhouse willy-nilly.
While the public outcry has long since subsided, I've received several emails and PMs from people since making that decision, asking me, "What the hell are you thinking?! They're just going to screw you again! Have you lost your damn mind?" So here's a little bit of transparency for some of you people to chew on: I get paid for proofreading, and I get paid for writing. Since my return, I've proofed five products (that I recall; I'd need to double-check my records, but I believe five is correct) and written for one. I have been paid for all five products I've proofed, and while I've not been paid for my writing on Street Legends, that payment is also not contractually due for a few more weeks. I'd love it early, especially my author's copies, but patience has never been my strong suit. All back payments from the Great Unpleasantness of last year have long since been made good. Now, this is all connected to me, because I don't know the details of the other freelancers' situations, but the fact is we do talk and no one has, to my recollection, bitched about not getting paid. So what this tells me is that CGL has turned things around fairly successfully. We've put out a great deal of product recently, and I think the quality has been steadily increasing. I think some of the stuff coming down the pipe, my involvement (or lack thereof) notwithstanding, is some pretty good stuff. So I'm not saying that you have to like what CGL is doing with the line, you don't have to like any of the new products, and you don't have to like the company. But for those of you concerned that they're just going to rip off their freelancers again, I have to say that, from my perspective at the moment, at least...that's not an issue any longer. I sure wouldn't be working on some of the projects I'm preparing to pitch if I thought they were still going to rip me off. Far as I'm concerned, everything's cool. I don't know that I need shades at the moment, but the future looks bright to me. |
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#151
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 ![]() |
Hell, I'll take a stab at these, too. Well thank you very much! Adding your knowledge to my brain-trust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) QUOTE Straight-up fiction pieces? An hour or two. Sourcebook/crunch? Triple-ish that. 5,000 words of crunch in 6 hours? Wow, that seems crazy-fast. I'm going to imagine that this is because you have years studying under the great writing masters in Tibet (rather than what it probably really is; all that time working in the writing mines). QUOTE "How are you so awesome?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I feel like you answered that with the "I write 5,000 words an hour, with lunch in the middle" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Seriously though, I appreciate your taking the time to answer. It seems like a very different perspective from Patrick. EDIT: Just mentioned this thread to my wife and she asked how big the average pitch document is? How quickly do you get a response on it? |
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#152
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 869 Joined: 8-March 02 Member No.: 2,252 ![]() |
It hasn't happened to me much, but it does happen. Rusty Zimmerman wrote an awesome adventure called "Ancient Pawns" based on the ending of an old 1st edition adventure, Elven Fire. So yeah, it happens. Not as often as you'd think, given the longevity some of the guys have playing the game, but it does happen. Cheers for that, Patrick. I'll keep hoping something canon will be made of the "bloats" mentioned in the Shadowtech shadowtalk, then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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#153
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 ![]() |
Cord Mutual Tower getting new ownership, for instance. Should there have been a five hundred story tower in Atlanta that housed an insurance firm and possibly an AI in 2051? Maybe, maybe not. But in 2074, it's there under new ownership and waiting for plot hooks. Despite the sort of strange idea that a smaller corp could maintain such a structure, I've always wanted to see the setting return to Atlanta. Note the Neo-anarchist Guide to North America wasn't to blame. As far as the book goes, Cord Mutual was supposed to be a big corporation then. It's just that, when FASA went on with Corporate Shadowfiles three years later, they decided corporations would be divided into AAA, AA and A, and there would be a Corporate Court and eight AAA (mostly the corporations introduced in Seattle Sourcebook, plus Yamatetsu from 2XS and Saeder-Krupp). First editions sourcebooks like the NAGNA and NAN really had a completely different take on megacorporations from what we're now used to (Yokogawa-Honeywell anyone? Hyundai-IBM ?).That being said, I can only concur on the time requirement for research. I strictly have no idea of how many hours it took me to compile the Corporate Index, which originally was a resource for freelancers Rob Boyle started to put together. |
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#154
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Freelance Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 ![]() |
Well thank you very much! Adding your knowledge to my brain-trust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Not all of it! I have many secrets! Muwahahaha-hack cough wheeze. QUOTE 5,000 words of crunch in 6 hours? Wow, that seems crazy-fast. I'm going to imagine that this is because you have years studying under the great writing masters in Tibet (rather than what it probably really is; all that time working in the writing mines). The Tibet thing isn't that far off. My every job for the last fifteen years or so has been either straight-up data entry (which is why typing speed doesn't really slow me down), or actual research and writing. Getting an MA in History and freelance game writing have a surprisingly similar core skill-set (and working on the one has certainly improved me in the other, and vice-versa). And, like I said, I tend to write stuff that doesn't need a lot of research. I know the Tir inside and out, so when I sit down to write something about it I get out Nigel's classic sourcebook and SoNA, sure, but really the odds are good I'll never need to open either of them. Why? Because my brain-space is full of the history of a pretend elf country and the imaginary statistics of make-believe teams playing a sport that doesn't exist (for instance), and I work very hard to make that sort of trivial information useful in what passes for a day to day life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I also have a tendency to not think about things I'm supposed to be thinking about, and instead to just kind of daydream game stuff (or, for instance, to lie down and not-sleep, instead of lie down and sleep, because I'm tossing and turning and coming up with whole paragraphs or stories, word for word, while I should be sleeping); my wife has gotten used to me just getting out of bed sometimes to go type for a couple minutes, and then scurrying back to bed. So often what happens is I just kind of half-assedly think about gaming stuff in my idle time (or in the car, or when I'm grading quizzes, or whatever), and when it's time to actually sit down and write, I type upwards of 130 wpm, so voila shit gets done. I have the luxury -- and it very much IS a luxury -- of also not having any kiddos, having a flexible work schedule, and having an awesome gamer wife who indulges me. So I can idly think about writing and research and stuff all the time, and then dive headfirst into a keyboard to furiously type it up on a whim, whenever I want to. I did three of the Elven Blood adventures, from conceptualization to completion, in about two weeks of casual work between semesters (while also working up syllabi and lectures and junk, just hopping from Word tab to PowerPoint tab or whatever). I mean, the careers I have (freelance writing and adjunct faculty) don't exactly bring tremendous wealth, fame, job security, or benefits, but they do bring great flexibility, so that I can...keep doing them...and...and...dammit. Now I see how they've got me trapped. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) QUOTE I feel like you answered that with the "I write 5,000 words an hour, with lunch in the middle" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Seriously though, I appreciate your taking the time to answer. It seems like a very different perspective from Patrick. Well, we see eye to eye on a lot of Shadowrun stuff (and we are both in each others' "inner circles" of freelancers we immediately send stuff to), and Patrick's a great buddy of mine, don't get me wrong...but aside from that, and the whole Texas thing, Patrick and I have way different outlooks in the gaming 'verse and responsibilities outside of it. The dude's juggling kiddos and a full-time regular job. I don't know how he gets anything done. It's all I can do to keep my three dogs alive, grade quizzes every now and then, and remember to pay a few bills on time. He's also been with the game a lot longer, so many of his experiences will have been with whole different groups of people. So even discounting that our lenses might be different, he's had different bosses than me, different crews to work with, etc, etc. A different perspective makes sense to me. QUOTE EDIT: Just mentioned this thread to my wife and she asked how big the average pitch document is? How quickly do you get a response on it? I aim for a page, in that I feel like it's my job to sell them on something quickly instead of rambling on. There are times that is an absolute nightmare for me. It took me the better part of three days or so to finish the pitch for Neat, because I was just so worried about explaining every nuance of the pseudo-mystery, how cool individual characters were and why they were important to Kincaid and the story, etc, etc, and I was trying to cram it all into one page. It was absolutely stupid of me, but it's my self-imposed pitch length, and for some moronic reason I decided to stick to it for a novella. There are whole chapters of that piece, and many whole fiction projects, that have taken me less time than just that pitch did. I figure I can pitch Jason something pretty brief and answer questions later if he needs them. So far it's mostly been "Okay, I trust you, type it up," and I increasingly suspect it's because he knows that an additional pitch is often going to actually take me longer than just writing and submitting whatever I have in mind. The intro fictions to several recent sourcebooks have been, start to finish, one hour jobs for me; if I'd had to stop and keep explaining ideas and stuff to get the okay ahead of time, it likely would have tripled or quadrupled that, easily. |
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#155
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 30-July 09 Member No.: 17,450 ![]() |
@Patrick, Bull, and Critias: Thanks for answering that. Honestly, it's been one of my biggest peeves about SR4 books as a whole. Patrick, if you could convince Jason to make the move to a uniform stat block for SR5, I (and I'm sure pretty much every other GM out there) would be forever in your debt.
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#156
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 26-December 12 Member No.: 66,309 ![]() |
What's the real difference between proofing and editing?
Is editing more of a big picture thing? |
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#157
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Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 ![]() |
I can add that proofreaders are paid in product. Generally, they receive one free copy of whatever it is they worked on.
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#158
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 ![]() |
What's the real difference between proofing and editing? Is editing more of a big picture thing? I would think that proof reading is making sure the words are spelled correctly and the grammar is correct, whereas editing is altering things to make sure they fit word-count limits or restructuring sections of text (like X Health and X Abilities being swapped and so forth). |
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#159
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 ![]() |
The terms are sometimes interchanged a bit more than they should be, but Neraph more or less has it.
Proofers are there to check things: to look at stat blocks and numbers, to make sure spellings are correct and consistent (and that spell check didn't miss something because the wrong word was used, but it was spelled correctly), and to check facts, dates, etc. They can (and should) suggest changes when they catch problems, but they generally don't make any changes themselves. Editing involves all of the above, plus modifying the text based on a variety of reasons, from proofer suggestions to the need to modify the story to adding/subtracting text for length. Writers get the ideas down on paper, but it's an editor's job to make the writer look good. Bull |
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#160
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Tilting at Windmills ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 ![]() |
Personally Im intrigued by the idea of some ghoul communities trying to go against the hunger and actively work to be accepted in society. I mean Dunk thought they were human enough to get a shot at life, at the end of the day HMHVV is a disease and should be treated as such. There will be a large portion that succumb but there will always be that small portion that keeps fighting despite having no chance of recovery. Rage against the dying of the light. I'm all for that. I'm just not too hip on them being playable characters, especially Type I Infected (vampires et al). I'm a little less obnoxious about ghoul PCs, but I'm not wild about them, either. There's enough to worry about being a shadowrunner without worrying about finding a corpse to chow down upon. I'm not winning that particular argument, by the way, at least about ghouls. Other Infected are still being argued about, but.... QUOTE I was actually thinking of having a ghoul research and support group in my game. They would be just like a support group for terminally illl, fundraising and spreading awareness. Their goals: • Ultimately find a cure for Kriegerstrain • help fund research to find methods to restore the intellect of feral ghouls • help fund research to achieve the goal put forth in dunkies will (ghoul edible synthetic flesh) • Actively work against non reformed ghouls. • Bring safe harbor for ghouls who want to fight the disease - protection from groups that would see them dead - procuring food that was either willfully donated at natural death or bought from morgues and the like - Help ghouls deal with their disease A couple notes on this. This is a fringe group! they're not representing the majority of the ghoul population, most are still cannibalistic savages. This is only for ghouls, they don't feed on the essence of other beings and thus is only driven to act out of hunger or because their brains molded, Wendigos, nosferatu and vampires are still soul drinking monsters and they should be! Bloody sick of nice vamps. I actually think this would work well. All sorts of shadow opportunities there. |
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#161
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Tilting at Windmills ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 ![]() |
It's kind of a catch-all. You're doing something most people wish they could be involved with, and work with some remarkable people. Are there little nuggets of knowledge nesting in your noggin you'd love to share, or crazy stories you never have the opportunity to tell? Questions no one asks, or which might not have been answered. Hmmmm. Why the Infected? And why the hate for them? It just sort of happened. I pitched a full-blown critter book for SR3 after FanPro picked up the license, and was approached by Rob Boyle sometime later to do a portion of Running Wild, which was at that time a 3rd edition project. He threw two chunks of RW at me, "The Infected," (originally called "Children of the Night" but he didn't like that) and "Playing God." Then SR4 happened, I stopped freelancing for a while, and then Peter Taylor emailed me out of the blue asking if I wanted to do the Infected in the resurrected Running Wild. I started doing some research, and realized once again that a lot of what happened with the Infected in SR was a real cluster, even worse than back in the day with SR3. And I don't hate them, I just don't think they have any place as PCs in this game. I'm not alone, and mine is not the only opinion on the subject. But I don't hate the Infected; I just love them more in their appropriate place as bad guys. Where do you get your ideas? This one actually gets asked of famous writers a lot more. My favorite answer at the moment is, "Hot Topic." This is subject to change. When are you going to do something with Texas? Where do you think the ghoul apocalypse is going to start? |
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#162
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 ![]() |
Patrick as I got Running wild today, I'll take the opportunity to give you a virtual hug, so many goodies!
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#163
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 ![]() |
Rage against the dying of the light. I'm all for that. I'm just not too hip on them being playable characters, especially Type I Infected (vampires et al). I'm a little less obnoxious about ghoul PCs, but I'm not wild about them, either. There's enough to worry about being a shadowrunner without worrying about finding a corpse to chow down upon. Not arguing with you, BUT ... we had a game where two characters were ghoul-bitten and didn't have a chance to get cured. For one character, it was a real struggle, resulting in great party dynamics and lots of thought. The other character was a psycho, and it served as an excuse for him to continue doing what he was doing anyway, until another party member 'accidentally' blew him up. (Not saying that 'playing a ghoul' is a great thing, but having rules available for two players to explore that story really made for fun sessions for them.) |
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#164
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 ![]() |
Several times, though I've never attempted the 72 oz steak. Good steaks, nice people. Little pricey for my tastes, but that's going to vary from person to person. Still there in my version of SR, and if I ever get to work on that part of Texas for the game (and I have a lot of evil plans), barring copyright and trademark issues, it will become game canon. Gonna be eating there on Thursday, but not the challenge thanks. I'll buy ya lunch if ya want |
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#165
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Tilting at Windmills ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 ![]() |
I'm down for that. PM with details.
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#166
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Freelance Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 ![]() |
I'm down for that. PM with details. If it wouldn't take me about six hours to get down there, I'd invite myself and surprise y'all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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#167
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 ![]() |
6 hours? Where from?
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#168
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Freelance Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 ![]() |
6 hours? Where from? Cleburne. It's a bit of a drive for lunch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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#169
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 ![]() |
Well it will be more like a late lunch if you change your mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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#170
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Tilting at Windmills ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 ![]() |
Yeah, Rusty, bring it on!
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 16th May 2025 - 08:16 PM |
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