Well the abuse is largely gone, now that Bioware's cost isn't stupidly low, (back of the envelope calculations seem to show it's now an even trade, which are the best two words when it comes to char creation, if you ask me), but I was more wondering because one of my favorite chars from 4th was a Chaos Magician who had a small amount of ware for flavor purposes (A couple data jacks, a nano-tat and baseline cybereyes), since it didn't hurt him mechanically to be out that fraction of an essence point.

Ummmmm. You do know that Mechanically, even that little bit of 'ware cost your character a full Magic Point, right?

Something for nothing is still something. Cyberware costs essence, which reduces magic rating. Period, full stop, end of story.

Mechanically, in 4th, you lose the maximum magic point. However, you don't gain a penalty to future Magic point acquisition. I.e. if you have 5.0 essence with 1.0 essence of ware, and then get turned into a ghoul, that character would now have a max magic stat of 4, a current magic stat of 1, and would only need to pay 10 karma to advance the magic stat to 2.

Also, I'm not saying it's not a rule hack, but I will note I saw it noted as legal on this site.

In the interest of keeping the errata thread a little more concise, posts ejected from there are being moved to this thread.

Posts get ejected? Awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

maybe the errata thread should either be stickied or added to the list of dumpshock important links then?

err... no. mechanically, you lose a point of maximum *and* current.

this is from SR4 Anniversary edition, page 177:

"Anything that reduces a character’s Essence will also reduce Magic.
For every point (or fraction thereof ) of Essence lost, the character’s
Magic attribute and her Magic maximum rating are reduced by one.
A character with a Magic of 4, for example, whose Essence is reduced
to 5.8 has her Magic immediately reduced to 3 and her maximum to 5.
Further Essence reductions do not reduce the character’s Magic again
until Essence drops below 5."

this is from page 164 of version 1.3, which is the earliest that i still have:

"Anything that reduces a character’s Essence will also reduce
Magic. For every point (or fraction thereof ) of Essence
lost, the character’s Magic attribute and her Magic maximum
rating are reduced by one. A character with a Magic of 4, for
example, whose Essence is reduced to 5.8 has her Magic immediately
reduced to 3 and her maximum to 5. Further Essence
reductions do not reduce the character’s Magic again until
Essence drops below 5."

(which says basically the same thing).

i don't particularly want to dig up the rules for resonance as well, but since i'm already here:

(page 232 SR4 v 1.3), "Implants and Resonance":

"As with Magic, cyberware and bioware limit Resonance. To
determine the severity of this impediment, take any reductions
from Essence due to cyberware and/or bioware implants (see p.
62) and round up to the nearest whole number. Th is amount is
deducted from the technomancer’s Resonance."

page 239 of SR4A says the same thing (same heading):

"As with Magic, cyberware and bioware limit Resonance. To determine
the severity of this impediment, take any reductions from Essence due
to cyberware and/or bioware implants (p. 68) and round up to the
nearest whole number. This amount is deducted from the technomancer’s
Resonance."

if anything, this is the exact opposite of what you described; current resonance is reduced, but not (technically) maximum resonance, although i suspect that's an oversight.

in any event, essence loss in SR4 reduced current values of magic/resonance, and there was never an option to change the order of character generation to get around that in any way that i am aware of.

Thanks Jaid... Really did not want to look that up myself, and the point needed to be made. Any Essence loss results in Magic/Resonance loss. Unlike in SR2/SR3 where you could just take a Geas to keep it at its current value. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Maybe ist allready in the thread... anyway...

Karma cost for Skill-Groups?
You can buy up the whole Skill-Group right?

Thanks, found it now (but ist on 107 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

There is no indication about the price and availability of autosoft for vehicule/drone in the whole book.

If it's intended that a character can ONLY get spells, not rituals or alchemical preparations for their high Magic Priority rating then that's just moronic. Getting house ruled out in any of my games and really think it needs corrected in errata.

Thats unlikely to be intended, i personally atleast just read the spells entry as catch all for all 3 types.

double post

Hilarious that you call nerfing the allready inferior streetsams "balancing".

I presumed that's what the poster who originally started this tangent was confused about, the fact that it only states spells. And I read the statement that I was replying to as agreeing that yes, you can only get spells with that not rituals or alchemical preparations.

You unbalanced 'ware.

Street samurai where by no means inferior in SR4. In most games I played, adepts where purely regulated to flavor builds, or occasionally social adepts. One of the games I played in, we where using many of my house rules that significantly increased the power of adepts. One of the players actually said the house rules made him want to play an adept, and he did so for a while. His next character, a samurai, was still stronger.

While the cost increase of 'ware (particularly combat augmentations) is annoying, it is still entirely justified.

Adepts sucked in SR4, and even the Ways were a welcome help. In 5, it seems they're strictly superior than a comparably built samurai, which is the issue. Ware costing retardedly-high prices doesn't help that discrepancy.

Guys, don't derail an ERRATA thread...

Good to see you back Muspellsheimr

The cost of 'ware needs to be lowered in errata because it's currently unbalanced. There, on topic.

I'll even give a demonstration.

Wired reflexes 1 have more drawbacks than Improved Reflexes. They can be bricked, they reduce your essence, they show up on cyberware scanners, etc. They cost 39,000 Nuyen.

Unless I buggered my math a Qi focus strong enough to give an adept the equivalent ability is 18,000 Nuyen.

The inferior product costs more than twice as much.

Well How come the Lifestyles are so damn expensive then, because I think someone living a Low Lifestyle nowadays would be really happy to have 2000$ a month

The ERRATA THREAD should only have ERRATA. If you wish to post questions, snarky ass comments or other assorted crap, post it in any of the dozen threads already created or create a new one.

Thank you,
The Management.

I'm not digging the layout of this pdf. Even with bookmarks, it's hard to find the exact content I'm looking for. There are a lot of times where the tables for the text are 1 and 2 pages later in the pdf, and the text is flowed all crazily around some tables, which makes it confusing as to what exactly matches with what (prime example for me is bodyware text/bodyware table/bone plating table).

Also I wonder if the page count is so high because it seems like so many more examples stuffed into the text, along with a larger margin meaning fewer words on page. I was looking at the SR4A pdf, and there just seems like there's more (rules) text per page.