And the only reason I even mentioned RIFTs in the first place here was to show that things need not be balanced in an RPG.

Once everyone's special, then no one is.

And as a real world crossover in the RIFTs arsenal of weapons, the 120mm cannon on an M1A1 is rated at 1d4x100 SDC, or 1d4 MDC, per shot.

You are arguing about every point, every post so much that I don't even understand what your global message is (if there is one at all).

And since I don't care if I fail convincing anyone, I will just post my own global opinion:

Yes, you cannot always see if a PC is overly min-maxed. As a gamemaster, you are responsible for the games fun. Whatever the way you treat OP characters when it doesn't suit the feel you wanna infuse in your camapign :

- "No" if spotted at character creation.
- Prior discussion with players about over min-maxing to avoid such behaviors.
- Nerfs and rule adjusting if a rule is broken.

It remains first and foremost the role of the GameMaster. (I'm gamemaster, so I feel like my opinion isn't about taking away players responsability. In fact they are responsible for loads of other things that can totally fuck up a good campaign)


Now back on subject: If trolls are underpowered, it should be adressed by devs into a SR 5.5, by gamemaster if he agrees they are and he feels it's a problem. It remains an tabletop-RPG so I don't think it's too much of a problem.

Welcome to conversations with Cain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Fair Enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



And were never allowed in our games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Maybe that is another example of the TJ Fallacy (From some people's point of view), but I would disagree. *shrug*

I thought Psi-stalkers were in the core book too. IIRC, they got pseudo-MDC too.

Having just looked at my book, they have access to MDC Body Armor, but I did not see any inherent MDC armor for the class, might have missed it, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I just looked at mine. They have a Mega-Damage Combat ability that turns HP into MDC.

Hmm, What page? and is it the Ultimate Rifts, or Classic Rifts (Mine is Classic). I did say I could have missed it.

The Ultimate Rifts Main Book. It is the latest edition afterall.

Yeah - I think I have it on PDF somewhere, but the Classic book is right here on my desk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But in that instance, essentially the Combat 'Borg is MDC as well... of course it's way more expensive to be heal that MDC, but at least you never need to worry about running your weapons energy dry.

Wow - No need to worry about Ammo? Hmmm. Might as well play Feng Shui. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

actually, most of the 'borg weapons are ammo-based, or at the very least have recharge times. i think only the forearm weapons are different, and either way, most of the built-in 'borg weapons are simply not as good as a decent pulse laser rifle or rail gun in the first place.

in any event, most of the advantages a 'borg gets are not substantially better than a regular human with decent tech can get. lots of MDC? that's nice. too bad it costs a small fortune to repair, just like for any other armour (not to mention everyone else just needs a mechanic, and you need a specially trained medical professional).

dragons are much more impressive because they can at least alter their physical form (still possible to detect for psi-stalkers and dog boys, for example), and they get access to magic and/or psionics, which is where most of the really crazy stuff comes in anyways. ultimately, the ability to deal lots of damage can solve many problems, but it's pretty common and straightforward to deal with. the ability to instantly take an enemy out of a fight is much much scarier, and usually comes with loads of other utility anyways.

Most of the energy based weapons for the 'borg state they can tie into the nuclear reactor of a full 'borg. Although yes, a good Wilk's laser from the New West book (power creep... not as bad as south america book) will do more damage. Although you could set up a way to recharge your normal e-packs with the generator. The real main draw is that you are only slightly taller than a human and can potentially run at over 80 MPH.

But when it comes to Rifts, the entire design philosophy revolves around nothing being created equally. Which, for how much record keeping the game has, you'd think they'd have bothered to go for more balance in the design principle.

i don't see a problem with this.
you could, after all, be slightly smaller than the average human and just RIDE A MOTORCYCBLE AT OVER 80 MPH right?

And take ridiculous penalties for firing wildly.

needs moar dakka

Or 2,50 tall and run slower than humans, because...

No reason, just because.

"Because" is one of the most powerful arguments one can make. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

How about "to cause threads about underpowered trolls"?

Would've almost used the same answer about technomancers, too, Sengir.

One of the guys at our table thinks that the Pendulum (for Technomancers) just swung too far back in the other direction. A knee-jerk reaction and a desire to squash an archetype.

Just one? Hand him the Captain Obvious Award (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

ummm... a good particle beam rifle from the original main book was probably better in most cases. can't remember when the wilk's 447 came into play, was that main book as well? if so, that was also a better pulse rifle option than pretty much any 'borg weapon i can recall.






presumably the rest hate technomancers with a passion, and feel that the pendulum either didn't swing far enough, or that it did swing far enough, and now technomancers are down in the gutter where they belong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

(at least, i find it unlikely that the rest of them think technomancers as they currently exist have a reasonable cost for what they do. alternately, maybe they expect the matrix book to come out and overcompensate in the other direction).