I didn't say who started the "challenge," I only asked what it was going to prove.

Moved.

QFT!

By now it is just ridiculous...
Everybody can buy a pdf an battlecorps or elsewhere and everybody can use is for character generation.

I am confident that Synner can easily build a solid char within 2h, but in the end you probably stat that his char as "not working" because he is not min/maxed through the roof.

cya
Tycho

When I challenge somebody, I flat-out challenge them. I confess to making snide comments, but Synner was the one who took it as a personal affront and challenged me.


I'll deal with the web cam issue, but the fact is that we're not actually arguing over the limitations. I've said what I've like to see, not: "Do it my way or be revealed as the cheat you are". See, I'm not the one who issued the challenge. Synner is the one with something to prove, here.

And my point is also proven: my polite discussion about a template system is ignored yet again, in favor of a misunderstood tangent that happens to be controversial. No wonder why I have a reputation, people ignore it when I play nice.

Edit: Missed SH's post. Sorry, I'll get to it later.

Yourself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Thanks for admitting it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Don't keep me waiting! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Bullshit. We have already pulled out the appropriate quotes, and you specifically targeted him with a challenge.

Synner has nothing to prove. What he intends to do is disprove your false accusations about how poor/long the SR4 character generation is.

Your "polite discussion" was not ignored, nor was it polite. Nothing was misunderstood by anyone here other than you. You are the one that derailed the thread in this manner, & you are the one that 'hid' your previous topic under trolling. You also clearly dismissed everyone's (other than yourself) opinion on how effective/fast/good/bad/whatever, stating quite clearly that your opinion is fact. Considering how many people disagree with you, and the subject is objective (meaning there is no fixed *fact*), you painted yourself as an uncaring, uncompromising, moronic asshole.

What you have here isn't so much a template system, as it is an archetype build system. I'd have to see more to make a decent judgment call. Still, it looks like a good start!

When one uses the term 'us' it is generally assumed if not outright stated by the definition of the word to be inclusive to themselves.
You're inability to realize this, or your active choice to ignore it cause me to question either your sincerity or your mastery of the English language.

Moved post to another topic.

No, I made a snide comment. Please show me where I said: "Synner, I challenge you to create a viable character in under two hours." Oh, wait, I didn't.

The facts are clear. I tried to play nice, and was ignored. I make a mildly controversial remark, and all hell broke loose. And people complain about me? I'm not the one issuing challenges, or kissing feet to suck up. I want to see a functional character creation system in SR4, and by that I mean a template system.

(Note also that I'm trying to keep this thread on topic.)

Your inability to recognize smileys causes me to question your mastery of sarcasm. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I think we are all pretty clear on the challenge situation, judging by the majority of the (non-Cain) posts on the topic.

As to whether Synner has something to prove, I just don't see it. But keep telling yourself that as well if it makes you feel better.

As to your wish to discuss a template system, why don't you start a new thread dedicated to that very topic? In that way, any useful discussion on the matter won't get lost amongst the actual Runner's Companion stuff, and the clutter of your challenge in this thread. I know that I am interested in the topic, and that seems to me to be the best way to proceed, if you do indeed want to 'play nice' and seriously discuss the matter.

Can I take multiple stats templates?

Moved.

They could if they didn't cheat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The focus area should be gear though. The rest of it is pretty dang easy by comparison tbh.

Back on topic, I'd like to see rules for both hardware and software A.I.'s, and whether you can resurrect someone by having a greater plant spirit regen their body while you go off on a meta plainier quest to find their soul, then maybe reinstall it using cybermancy or something?

So are extra tools created or obtained during the 45 minute character generation window okay? I could fairly easily make a character then, and definitely in 15 minutes including obtaining tools excluding gear, though now I could do gear.

You have a good idea. The problem is that I'd like to see a template system in Runner Companion, which has everything to do with the topic at hand. Synner's challenge to me has nothing to do with it. Since Synner issued the challenge, it's up to him to create another thread to move his topic to. I don't feel it's my job to move an on-topic discussion to another thread to make way for Synner's tangent.

So why not settle for the next best thing and have a thread about it made by fans? I just made such a thread right here.

Shrug. Synner has already stated that a 'template system' will not be appearing in Runner's Companion, but will be released in the future in some other, yet-to-be-named capacity.

Once again, you are the one that brought it to this point, you are the one who issued the challenge (and even if your heavily distorted version somehow turns out correct, & Synner made the challenge, you are the one that suggested it), and you have made as many posts on "Synner's tangent" as all the rest of us combined, pushing it ever farther away from the original topic.

Regardless, I am done dealing with your idiocy, to put it nicely, and would strongly suggest that if you want to continue this argument, take it to another thread - of your or another's making.

Cain--There is an apparent disconnect between what some people, like Sweaty hippo, see as a template system and your vision. Can you post some examples or a clearer description of what you mean by a Template system?

I could create "templates" for a street sam and say that it has 1 physical stat at 6 and the others at 5. Two Combat focused skills at five, 1 skill at 4, 2 skill groups at 3 and 4 skills at 4.

Add 2 specializations to combat skills of choice

Set all mental attributes to 3.

The list continues...

Personally, I would find such a system constrictive and dull as compared to the standard pt buy where I weigh out investment in the character's karma expenditure vs immediate ability. From there, I look at what the other players are bringing to the table--maybe I can squeeze some points into Data Search and Browse since our hacker is going to be focussed on a more smash and grab approach--both in his hacking and the fact that he uses a shotgun.

This all shows that each of us walk into a scenario with very different sets of expectations for how we are going to build characters. My earlier statement of having a playable character down in 45 minutes, and then tinkering on it some more wasn't good enough for you. Your expectation is that all tinkering will be complete before play begins and thus it must be counted into the time to make a character. The problem with that is that as each of us makes a character or plays a character, we learn. That learning curve impacts later choices and decisions--it's true in RL and it's true in character creation.

If you are so concerned about cheating, how about GenCon Indy. I can sit down and make a character without any additional aids, and in under an hour be willing to play that character in a Mission. You can sit down across the table and watch, hell, anyone who shows up and really wants to watch me make a character can join in. I'll share my books and have a few extra pencils ready.

I'll do that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I live in Oregon. It's a bit of a trip for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I'm in San Diego. It's fair to say the distance is equal. Barring your presence, would you nominate a proxy?