Oh come on, you don't want to lower your niveau so much. HMVV has always been different in different editions . just pick the version you like most and stick with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(On cyberware)
The easiest way to deal with these is to assume they are fads and will pass in time (as Augmentation implies with the later - thank you to the person that mentioned that). If Catalyst takes that tact or not is not foreseeable, but the material in Augmentation could imply that.

-> You are welcome. It wouldn´t get more explicit, see the main book on cyberware (gear chapter, cybermods are called omnipresent (or something, "allgegenwärtig")), and note that Aug says "it is no longer surprising to see people with obvious cybernetics".


(On the wireless paradigm)
As I stated in the other thread, the solution would seem to be to apply the rule that the GM determines what actually has a device rating and use common sense. This may seem like saying just house rule it, but since it is stated in the BBB I see it more as employing an optional rule. Yes, that is GM fiat - no real way around it.

-> Rules application. Modern devices (not! your pants) are usually computerised, but quote me where it says that all are. Yes, nearly everything can be computerised now. That I know. Removing the wireless paradigm is very easy, and only requires a houserule for an area that will rarely come up in a game. Name it and we can talk about it (Rotbart: No spoilers please.).


(On vehicle rules)
Optional rule fixes need to be written, pure and simple. Any volunteers? Cain (you seem to have a head for mathematics IIRC)?

-> I may have offered help with rules application above. I´m hoping on the help of at least Jaid and Tarantula, but open up a thread and take me up on it.


(On traditions)
Since changing the core mechanics isn't an option (although adding more new material is) and the major consensus seems to be lack of differentiating details, the solution is clear - write more fluff. Volunteers?

-> If you are out for that, buying Awakenings and SOTA 2064 is a good idea. Nanos gigantum humeris insidentes... We are (meta)humans standing on the shoulders of giants. No need to abandon the past, Awakenings is 2nd edition.


(Time moves on, plus TMs and GM whims)
Still no ideas here.

-> If laws are made to be broken, suggestions are made to be ignored. Bring specific ones up in their own threads if you want, in this format no discussion on that will be productive.

Still not 'Nothing can be done'.

Actually, the Ghoul rules in SR3 (Shadowrun Companion) and SR2 (Target: UCAS) are pretty much equivalent.
And the rest wasn't that different, either - see http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/HMHVV.htm for a summary.
Funny thing is that Cure Disease really helps now - and even funnier the fact that even if you manage to not become a Ghoul failing some tests, you'll loose Essence that can't be recovered... by the Revitalization therapy, at least - Cellular Repair, on the other hand, still can by RAW.

Huh?

As I stated upthread, Augmentation covers that. There's no reason to house rule it. The only way to hack a cyberlimb, according to Augmentation, would be to a) have the cyberlimb in open diagnostic mode (and why would anyone do that unless it was being serviced?) and b) be standing less than (I believe) 3-5 meters away. The same logic applies to smart-links. A hacker would practically have to be touching the shooter AND have the link in diagnostic/"open" mode.

RFID tags are just chips that send out a very short-range transponder signal that says "Hey! I'm right here!" They aren't mini-commlinks and they aren't linked to anything mechanical that can be rigged or manipulated or tied into a node. An RFID signal is like a one-way street. So while you may have an RFID chip in your underpants a hacker can't use it to give you a cyber-wedgie.

Which is not to say that Databoxers™ and Datapanties™ brand Personal Data Keepers™ don't exist, they're just not completely ubiquitous.

-paws

RF stands for Radio Frequency, which is how you get radio and cell service today. Yes, its possibly to block RF with massive line of sight barriers, or whatnot, but, I am guessing your local radio stations are getting a 99.99% penetration rate on homes in your area.

Same for cell service. I can get high speed internet on my cell phone.

Agreed. And in that case I would rule the Datapantiesâ„¢ with a commlink rating with a Response, Signal, etc. etc. It doesn't seem any different than an implanted commlink to me.

I think you are aware of the area were removing wireless functions requires an iffy interpretation of given rules. I think it is so little of an actual problem that most don´t even know it.

Yeah, ok, but did that ever affect your games or do you just want to bitch and moan about the sloppiness of the writers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Radio station broadcast towers and cellular service towers have an extremely powerful broadcast signal... because they're broadcasting. I don't have my BBB in front of me but maritime radar and FM radio have by far the highest signal-rating. So, yeah, they can penetrate. I wasn't trying to imply dirt would stop that and I apologize if it seemed like I was. The point I'm trying to make is that, according to the game rules, a hand-held commlink is unlikely to cut through all that and reach a corporate server/node that is purposefully not broadcasting a high-strength signal.

If I'm playing with a $10 remote control car with a low-power controller and the car falls into a sewer I'm not going to be able to drive it out again unless I can get my arm holding the controller down into the sewers.

Ghouls and the risk of infection? Of course it did, especially with Ghoul PCs.

Seriously, I got no idea what you are talking about and why you think there was (and could be) a spoiler.

Minor note: swearing is not back in; it was deliberately never in there from the beginning. I think its tasteless to include real swear words in a professionally printed game book. Its not edgy or cool, its simply juvenile.

I also think the darker, more criminal tone (at least of some things) is a misguided direction. When PCs are not "the good guys" (at least comparatively), the any role playing game's fun goes downhill fast, in my opinion.

Attenuation is a function of power level and frequency with lower frequencies having generally better propagation than higher frequncies. Low frequency signals penetrate buildings much more easily than higher frequency signals. US AM Radio operates at around 1 MHz and can bounce off the ionosphere and be received far over the horizon, being received 100s of miles away. FM Radio operates at around 100 MHz, and propagates less well, and can still easily cover a Metropolitan area with similar power as an AM Radio transmitter.

Cellular phone services operate at around 900 MHz or 2 GHz in the US depending on the type of service, and the propagation is nowhere near as good. Area coverage is done by having multiple towers (cells) and using many transmitters to achieve wide area coverage. The power levels at each transmit site are a good bit lower than what is used at a typical radio or TV station, they make it up by having a large number of them. The reason you can receive cell service is due to a very large network of transmission equipment designed to penetrate every area that people typically get to. They don't use massive power, but many transmitters.

Not that Shadowrun has, or needs that level of complexity in the rules, but its something to think about when comparing how real life communication systems work compared to the rules.

That's all fine and dandy but where I sit in my office has almost zero usable cell signal.

Why?

Because of the building construction and component make up cause significant blockage of the cell signal by my carrier.

But that has more to do with the construction and the specifications of the signal being transmitted (frequency, power, environmental conditions, etc) as was already covered by other folks.

This would go a long, long ways for me. I'd be a lot more willing to join the local SR4 GM on occasion with that.

Shadowrun has always portrayed its PCs as anti-heroes, from 1st edition on. What about the game has turned darker?

They're not all Anti-Heroes.

I believe Shadowrun always has supported all kinds of gameplay. You could be a Robin Hood, a Samuel Verner, a Sally Tsung, a Dodger, whatever they were all a different level or flavor of morality and/or immorality.

That said I would also disagree that things have gotten darker (only during late 2nd edition), but they have gotten more Crass.

I'll agree that the world has never been black and white. The character have been fairly complex in terms of their motivations. Even many of the most mercenary characters from the old school had a soft spot of some kind. And some could even be considered heroes, or at least hooders.

It sounds like evanger's games focus more on hooders, which is fine. (Personally, I'd rather play in that game than one that had a bunch of people that shoot people in the face for money, daily.)

Ultimately, IMO, this is just another mohawk vs tactical vest argument, which has been debated to death elsewhere.

-paws

Here in lies the problem. The simple rules in SR4 BBB just don't work because you can hack anything with a device rating.

Yes, you can add real world complexity as a reason to house rule it but those are the rules.

Regardless it is here to stay until we move to another edition. Bridge under the water. Pick your SR3 or SR4 and home rule as appropriate.

You can hack anything with a Device rating that you are in Signal range of. Most cybergear has a signal range of 0-1. Getting within 3 meters of that really ticked off Street sam? Not a good idea.

Yes, you can hack anything with a device rating, but that doesn't change the limitations of the device you're hacking, and that is the point a lot of people keep trying to make. You can't hack my blackberry and make it slice my face open. You could trash the software, even maybe cause it to short out or overload and burn me, but that's it. A minor dose of reasonable interpretation on any piece of equipment will explain what the device rating is responsible for. It could be a simple RFID chip, a digital ammo counter, or a diagnostic function. A simple diagnostic program, for example, reads the integrity of a device and presents the information for interpretation. It has no control over the equipment, so hacking it to shut down the equipment would be pointless.

People take this "everything is hackable" way too far.

Agreed.

If someone is close enough to be able to hack a Signal 0 anything, then either target is already screwed or the hacker is screwed. Gettign that close to a (potentially) hostile target is just a bad idea.

-paws

"I'm not scared of bluetooth hackers. If someone is hacking me through bluetooth I can reach out and slap them for being an ass."

Those examples are anti-heroes. An anti-hero isn't evil.

Superman. Traditional literary hero. Batman. Traditional literary anti-hero. Is your average Shadowrun PC a knight in shining armor or someone who slinks about in the... ahem... shadows? I would never say that someone can't play a white knight in Shadowrun. But it seems counter to the spirit of the game.



Word!

Not wanting to derail the current conversation about rules vs RL, but that is not correct. It can be done from 1 mile away.

The game rules make it a little simpler. Single R0 = R0, always.