They do in real life to... a chip is a chip is a chip my microprocessor professor used to say. You can pump audio out your video card its just extremely inefficient (and silly) to do so. I can use my house key as a screwdriver to but you know what, the screwdriver works a whole lot better.

You can check out make magazine online for sometimes silly sometimes cool always a little crazy inventions and hack jobs.
http://makezine.com/projects/

Except that several of the SR novel have Characters who are policemen or bodyguards, Characters who do things for reasons other than money - honour, friendship, love, humanitarianism...
...Which would make them not anti-heroes, according to you/your source.


Except that BlueTooth has a range of 10m/30ft in good conditions so you could be hacked from the other end of the bus and not know [if you're not using your phone/looking at it].

Some bluetooth reaches over 100m without issue, so person could be down the block from you.

As to hacking and taking it too far, as someone earlier in the thread mentioned, the software will always be limited by the physical limitations of the hardware it's trying to drive. You can't make a joint that does a 180 degree arc suddenly do 270, or suddenly swing left/right instead of up/down. The hardware just *can't* do it.

No, I want fewer traditions with greater depth and quality to the writing.


Then hack the streetlight he's standing under, and use that as a springboard to reach him. Can't reach that? Just daisy-chain your way through a bunch of nearby items, like the doorknobs and window controls, or everyone else's clothing. Not a problem.


That won't stop players from getting creative. Alter the digital readout on the gun to say it jammed. Turn on all the diagnostic software at once, you'll start running so many programs that the Response will degrade. And those are just the combat applications; the noncombat applications are worse. You can program someone's armored clothing to signal you when it's put in the wash, telling you exactly when's a good time to spring an ambush. Or, you can program a cardboard cup (which would have an inventory chip) with an agent to infect the sammie's cyber for you. Basically, saying everything is wireless = everything's a trap waiting to happen.

Gotta cry 'foul' here. Didn't you argue the other side of the coin here that voodoo wasn't included?

Problem. That streetlight will have a system rating of 1, if its wireless at all. That limits any programs you upload to it to hack with at an effective rating of "1".

Nope. I complained that the voodoo section in SM didn't go into enough depth. The same also applies to shamanism and hermeticism.


Then use an agent. No one's ever specified what happens to them, but apparently they manage to keep their full ratings when they reach a big enough system.

I personally prefer microdrones as mobile relay stations, even though they have the downside of being possibly detectable by regular wifi scans or careful physical observation.

Hacking your way through several nodes (even if they are poorly guarded) does not only include the problem of possible low device ratings along the way, but takes some time, which makes the drones a good approach in combat situations and which is the reason why establishing wirelinked chokepoint architecture for your PAN is so important if you are security-conscious.




Yes, fortunately it doesn't.

Making more things -not all, mind you- hackable means more job opportunities for hackers.
Having more hack options is actually the prerequisite for truly bringing the 3 levels of play -physical, astral, electronic- together and adding complexity to your game, as well as spotlighting all players- and being able to distribute spotlight time, as it is no longer one hacking scene, then an infiltration scene (or an infiltration scene, then a hacking scene, then more infiltration in case of isolated networks), but a constant switching between the various levels of play.

I haven't read a Shadowrun novel in 16 years. The last one I did read featured Sam Spade-noir detective Dirk Montgomery in 2XS. He was the purest example of anti-hero. But whatever novels you're referring to, I'm guessing those characters, despite not being motivated by money, were not white-hatted cowboys or noble warriors? Were they more Han Solo than Luke Skywalker? Anti-hero.

An anti-hero isn't a bad guy, he's a protagonist character fraught with human frailties such as angst, fear, anger, what have you and they direct his actions.

My bad. Sorry, confused that.

Agent is a program. Its rating is still limited by the system rating of the node. So load up an agent AND exploit on a node with system r1... you just crashed the node by overloading it.

And that's a problem, because deckers already dominate total aspects of a game.

In *every* SR4 game I played or ran, we had issues with deckers dominating the legwork section, sometimes so badly that other players went out for food while the decker worked. Most of the info you need is on the matrix, and so you're making a lot of Data Search rolls to get general information. All other characters have to offer is Contacts, and that only helps if the contact is connected to the right areas. Even when certain information is only held by certain NPC's. you need a decker to get general info on that person, and to start locating them.

For example, in On The Run, the only clue you get from your Johnson will involve a lot of Data Search rolls to get to the next step. That also involves chasing down a lot of dead ends, so you're going to make an awful lot of Extended tests to get absolutely nowhere. Once you figure out who has the next clue, you need to do a bunch of legwork on Nabo to figure out a plan of attack. That also involves a lot of Data Search rolls. Once you've done that, you need to backtrack the email (definitely requiring a decker) and then track down a series of people, all of which involve Matrix searches.

I see you and raise you sr1-sr4. This has always been a problem in all games for me that the decker/hacker monopolized a portion of the game. I see this as a flavor/GM/Mission issue, not a game design issue. This is a trap that I see most often when too much of the legwork is available online, as opposed to only available via contacts. Most secrets just shouldn't be available just via a data search. They should either require targeted hacking or (better yet) only available from contacts.

In SR1-3, the problem with the decker was the "dungeon-within-a-dungeon" aspect of a matrix run. Which still exists in SR4, if the decker chooses to go full-VR. You could reduce this problem by utilizing a lot of offline storage, though; this aspect has been de-emphasized in SR4.

When it comes to contacts vs. Data Search rolls, the problem here is that you're dependent on having a contact who's area of specialty covers what you need to know. In any event, it's better to go chasing down possibilities via Data Search, than to go annoying your contacts. Once you've narrowed yourself down to a plan of attack, then targeted decking or Contacts can come into play.

And even then, the easiest way to reach a contact is via the matrix. And once they give you information, you're going to want to confirm this, usually via matrix or other people who need to be tracked down via matrix.

Your rebuttal seems to have ignored most of my post, let me restate it for you.

Which is a really bad idea in situations where you have to pay attention to the outside world.

In general, in SR4 a decker can go VR, and will have incentives not to do so in many cases.
In SR1-3, he had to go VR all the time.



Or who knows someone who might know something.
A good network of contacts should cover the most common research topics and is often more trustworthy than matrix channels.




You don't need a hacker to make a phone call.
If it's an encrypted, redirected phone call, okay.
But even runners aren't always that paranoid.

If a specific contact doesn't have the information a PC needs an extended test can determine the length of time and cost said contact (say a fixer) can return with the needed information. The idea that a PC can only get needed information from a Data Search or an immediate contact is false.

Also, i don't see how data search can take up so much time.
It's a couple of dice rolls, then the GM tells you what you find on which site, that's it.

Calling a connection, on the other hand...you know, those things tend to get roleplayed.
Yes, there'll be social skill tests too, but still, the amount of game time devoted to checking a connection usually exceeds that for a data search.

If the group needs a decker for data searches and legwork, something is going very wrong. Minmaxers can run a mook, if need by by fetch module, everyone else can pay the few bucks for Browse and 4 BP for Datasearch already.

different frequencies, different penetration rates. and by the sound of it, SR use something in the microwave range...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnet...gnetic_spectrum

thing is that the higher the frequency, the more data one can transmit in a given time slice. but at the same time, the em waves ability to penetrate drops.

for example, gsm phone signal, being on lower frequencies then umts/3G radio, are better at penetrating buildings and bad weather...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_sniping

But much of the time they were in Overwatch mode so were actually part of the team. This isn't something I house ruled either, it is detailed as a way of including Deckers in the Matrix book.

The Decker/Rigger could also come right along and do MIJI tests and sorts of things that were resolved with quick roles, not full-fledged hacking of every electronic device in sight. The Electronic Warfare rules were actually a perfect implementation in my opinion of integrating Deckers and Riggers into a street setting. If anything SR4 should have moved this to the core setting of Shadowrun rather than going the other route and making everything into a "Hackable Universe"tm.

Now if you read the subject line this thread is about "Compromise", so lets stay and topic and ask what each of you have to offer regarding the Matrix?

I would like to see large area settings where the amount of things hackable on every street corner is brought to a more reasonable and manageable list of like half a dozen (rather than potentially everything in sight).

That, and broader aknowledgement of undeveloped areas that are still wired, as well as consideration of security concerns that lead to more skinlinks.

Basically, how i handle it anyway.


Oh, and i'd love to see random tables to generate comlink content on the fly.
I love random tables anyway, but this is an area where they would be really useful.

You never know who'll be hacked next, it would be helpful when you don't have to make up every possible link in advance.

No, but a lot of information you need is best accessed through the Matrix. When you get your job, you want to get a lot of information on your target; the easiest way to do that is a matrix search. You can get more overview information that way; each contact will only know the information that pertains to them. Once you've winnowed down your possibilities and are working on a plan of attack, then the more specific information Contacts have can come into play.

It's really difficult to afford a good network of contacts as a starting character; and there's no guarantee that the sum total of contacts you have as a group will cover what you need.

True, contacts can put you in touch with people; but so can Matrix searches; and in either case, you're going to want to do a Matrix search on the new person in order to learn more about them before you make contact.

Fixers don't work for free, for one. Data Searches don't cost you any nuyen. Second, it depends on how the game's set up, but sometimes the critical clue might be on the matrix; even when it's not, you can usually find useful information via said search. Third, if you're looking for an overview on a target, a Matrix search is the best place to start, and can often lead to interesting tangents that can lead to forming a plan of attack. For example, your first Matrix search turns up that they have a particular security company. You then search the security company, and discover they have an interesting-looking cleaning firm. You search the cleaning company, and discover they're due a shipment of drones soon. You've now got a plan of attack that involves using a drone to infiltrate the security company, producing fake ID's, and getting into the target company that way.

Now, how would an immediate contact (or even an extended series of them) come up with that? This is the sort of creativity I've come to expect from players. They often run plans based on the oddest of details.

Finally, even when you get information from a contact or network of contacts, you'll want to verify it. That includes making even more matrix searches.

It's an Extended Test, which takes time. When you count up the number of searches the decker is making, it begins to add up. Also factor in the fact that there'll be a number of dead ends that some players will pursue to oblivion, things start to add up quickly. Finally, some players will stumble across something interesting that you planned on them only reporting to the team; but instead, they decide to make a whole run out of it. Now you're doing a solo game as the decker follows down a thread.


Data Search is an extended test. That means, you can only make as many rolls as you have ranks in the skill. 4BP only buys you a skill rating of 1, which means if you don't break the threshold on the first try, you won't get any information at all.

A common houserule is limiting your number of tests to the size of your pool, but even that would allow multiple tests. RAW extended tests are auto-successes if you have time and no opposition.

No. By default, the number of tests is unlimited.
The optional rule is 'as many tests as dice'.

I think that really depends upon the security rating of the street corner as well as the type. A corner in the retail area of an "A" rated neighborhood will be far more prolific with wireless than a residential corner in a "C" rated neighborhood (almost nothing there).