Ooooh I remember the TMNT rpg by palladium.
I loved it but lost my copy unfortunately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

LOL I played a dragon straight out of character gen that was doing 6d6MD with most of his attacks. Surprisingly, I was the most powerful of the group... even moreso than the SON OF FRIGGIN' TYR godling character. I hate palladium.

Downside of being a dragon:
Your age is measured in days to weeks (of course, your max age is hundreds of years!)

Wait, that's not a detriment!

Oh, and you understand all magic, can use technomagic, and if you take an OCC, you get to actually have a decent range of skills. For irony, I made the dragon a Knight. And took the spell that let me understand all languages as one of my primary spells. Yay for being able to use anything ever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Doesn't quite compare to a time traveling augmented velociraptor in coolness though.

Or dying by being hit by two skyscrapers (there was a black hole between them, character was crushed as both buildings moved towards it).

Jim was in some of the best games.

Just for curiosity sake... How is the Elf worse off than a human... they get 3 points of stats for their 30 BP cost as well as a Sense Enhancement... the only drawback is the loss of a single point of Edge... Seems pretty balanced to me...

Oh.... And Opinion is not Fact...

A jury of twelve would find them mentally competent.


Yes they bloody well are. Making one race strictly better than another is an unjustifiable decision if a system is intended to be balanced.

Complete and total balance is an illusion...

Well in a game system I look for fun. Its weird I know trying to have fun playing games but some of us go for it. But hey I totally respect those of you over in Soviet Russia where the games run you, I dig that in a game where fun isn't the objective you want things balanced .

As I sit here eating my peanut butter, mayonnaise, mustard, bologna and cheese sandwich I wonder if a sensible person can accept that people have differing tastes and might enjoy different things. I think the answer is clearly no, since the games run you the only tastes you are allowed to have are the ones the game give you.

The elf comes out 10 points behind the human purely on points, 5 points behind if you count their natural low-light vision as a 5-point advantage. However, this is a good illustration of the flaw of looking only at points - the elf can effectively spend 30 more points on Attributes, and has a higher soft-max on Agility, which is probably the most overall valuable Attribute of the game, and Charisma, a desirable stat for both shamans and faces. Of course, they come out as a bargain if you include the equivalent of 2 exceptional Attributes over the human (Agility and Edge balancing each other out, more or less), except that exceptional Attribute is hideously overpriced, and breaks down when you try to apply it more than once to approximate a metahuman's advantages.

The point is, they are technically a bit behind on points, but are optimal for certain roles.

Assuming that that makes the two races "balanced" against each other, then compare orks and oni in the same light.

That role being virtually every active task in the game. Its a small role but someone has to fill it.

When did I ever claim orks and oni were balanced against each other? Should they be? It comes down to variety vs. making every single option equally "good". Is every assault rifle as good as the Ares Alpha? Granted, I do wish they were more like elves vs. humans, or elves vs. dryads - in other words, one option not as optimal, but having some advantage that might inspire you to choose it.

Personally, I think the developers are virulently racist against blue-skinned people. I mean, Nartaki got screwed too.

Can you imagine what a turd of a game you'd have if everyone was a Nartaki? It wouldn't be Shadowrun, it would mult MultiarmedfreakRun. No thanks! I'm ok with them existing, but I really really really don't want them to be a no-brainer choice!

Of course it is. But Jesus, oni vs. ork ain't exactly rocket science.

Yeah but 5 points aint a lot either. I'd have non problem with them being mechanically balanced, but I just don't see 5 points as an issue.

That's a quality, a 2/3 contact, a rank of a skill plus extra, or 25,000 nuyen.

I never said that you claimed them to be balanced, I said that they need to be viewed in the same light as elf vs. human.

As for "equally good," no. But if Oni are going to cost more, there must be a niche that they fill. "Being/looking different" is not a niche.

Qualification: "Being/looking different" is a niche. One that should give you points.

Not disagreeing with that. Even something like the bonus to intimidation that I suggested would give them some niche to fill. It's just that a metatype being overcosted by 5 points, while not meaningless, really isn't that significant to me - there are a lot of bigger balance issues in the game.

Compared to others, yes, the Oni vs. Ork vs. Ogre is fairly minor. However, it is the most blatantly obvious of the balance issues in the game, which is why I use it as an example whenever discussing the absurd pricing of various RAW racial options.


Oh, and while 5BP may only be 0.25% of a standard characters starting value, it is still rather significant, considering just how often I overspent when I used the BP system (& still tend to overspend, with my Karma system).

Exactly... Not all that bad of an option...

Damn, you beat me to the snarky comment.

That's Me... Snarky AND Fast...

What would you rather have, a quality or nothing? A 2/3 contact or nothing? 25,000 nuyen or nothing?