Possession had nothing to do with the original complaint of yours (Ally spirits don't have Inhabitation).

As you were told, Ally spirits can have Inhabitation OR Materialization OR Possession.

Please get off your high horse about magic being OP or spirits being OP or whatever beef you have with Magic in general. Yes we get it. ***YOU*** think magic and spirits are OP / stupid / gamebreaking / whatever.

Please stop rubbing our faces in your disdain for magic.


As for the OP...

Easiest way IMO: Wait until the Dragon uses Astral Projection (or give it reason to do so for a longer period of time). While he's out, put up some significantly strong magic defenses on the Astral (physical too btw). Then perform the ritual that will let your ally Inhabit the body. Magically actives that leave their bodies via Astral Projection are considered prepared vessels already.

You can see this because Shedim can steal a body of a mage who isn't home. They also state in the Ally section about magically actives being prepared vessels if they aren't home.

Edit: I've had a bit of time to reconsider what I said. So I'll amend.

Where the hell do you get off? You know nothing about me, nothing about my preferences for the game, and nothing about what the hell you are talking about. I don't have a problem with magic. I don't have a problem with ally spirits. I have a problem with you shooting your mouth off.



You mean to tell me that a Great Dragon isn't going to have a ward that a Force 20 spirit couldn't break when he goes for an astral walk? That assumption is bordering on deluded.

Then the spirit comes home and beats the living tar out of your Ally Spirit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just because you don't think Magic is OP doesn't give you the right to tell other people to shut up.
And if you don't think Magic is OP, it's because you're playing Magicians (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and not tech-characters.

Um… *where* does it say that 'out to lunch' Awakened living vessels are automagically 'prepared'?

What I see is that you have to complete an Enchanting + Magic (Vessel's Willpower, 1 day) test *with* a penalty of vessel's Essence or Magic (whichever is higher), and *then* Inhabitation takes 1 day per Force of the spirit after that, *and* it all has to happen in a Lodge of Force >= spirit's Force; if the vessel leaves that lodge, vessel and spirit die.

I didn't see Doc say anywhere that he hated magic or thought it it was overpowered. Patty just has some more than dubious history with D&D-like munchkining and template stacking, attempting to bend the rules to create horribly overpowered and horribly unrealistic scenarios with "rigger mages." There were lots of mistaken terms and confusing inhabitation for possession, as well as some dubious rulings on multiple ally spirits and doing things the game doesn't seem to imply that you can do or is at least extremely vague on the subject (As it is implied that nobody should ever do such a thing, and any GM that allows that level of munchkining should receive an APDS sniper shot to the dome).

That being said, I understand Doc's frustration at this topic.

Also, what do you mean "He got better?"

And inhabiting a dragon's body while he's away would never work. It takes days, and the dragon wouldn't be able to project for more than a day or so. Also he'd break the living shit out of your ward on the way back in. Failing that, he'd hire nasty nasty people to kill you before the ritual finishes.

You realize that there's only one magic attribute for Mystic Adepts right?

Even if they put 5 points worth towards adept powers they can still cast force 6 spells before taking physical drain (and as such can also (attempt to) summon force 6 spirits). They just get fewer dice. And as such, their number of hits isn't going to be much higher than their Magic dice pool anyway (eg. 3(6) magic for spells with 6 spellcasting gives you 9 dice. Average is 3 hits, therefore casting over a F3 spell isn't going to do you a whole lot, unless the effect is based on the force, and not the hits).

The last Great Dragon I know that got nailed by an Ares laser was Alamais in Night's Pawn. Dowd made it fairly clear that Alamais died in that engagement after Church knocked his shield down (because he survived, har) but he was still around in...I want to say Ragnarock, I know it was one of the Tommy Talon novels.

Dunkie even left him the fruitcake with the note "Unlike you, I'm actually dead." Ever classy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Counting the seconds until some quotes the FAQ for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Wooooah, I never said anything about trying to inhabit or kill a Great Dragon. That's a terrible idea. The most terrible idea.

In an unrelated note: I need to read up on my SR novels.

I still don't see how people rationalize the old FAQ taking precedence over newer material.

(I know, I know - dead horses and whatnot, but still...)

Based off this guy's threads? I'm making the assumption that's precisely who he's trying to posess/inhabit.

That and I saw 'Ares Laser' and thought about Church and the CAR-32 with microgrenades. And Stealth Bombers with lasers that apparently got retconned to orbital ones.

Old FAQ... new FAQ... whatever... someone already said it...

When I say what I am about to say understand that I played a mystic adept for years. My character pulled the team out of more crap than the rest of the team combined.
So, I do consider them to be overpowered. My group played with the FAQ rules regarding mystic adept magic even before the OLD FAQ came out because I agreed with my GM (hell, I was the one who brought it up) that it was overpowered compared to adepts or mages...
Now when I say overpowered... I speak only to our style of play... What you do in your game may make them vastly underpowered... to each his own.

Then let me add a few things *you* specifically posted that indicate otherwise...

1. How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.

2. Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.

Now, in your defense, I did conflate a couple of things... namely any jackwad that goes spouting their own mouth off using the above statements is typically derisive, & condescending and holds tightly to the belief that SR magic is OP no matter what.

Perhaps you aren't one of those who holds tightly to that belief (thus I should not have conflated the two things). If you aren't, I apologize. But your post I've quoted... enough commentary on that from me.




Funny thing that... I re-read the OP's post and amazingly enough, there not a single f'ing mention of a god damned Great Dragon. So again, get off your high horse. If you plan on riding my ass on technical details, I suggest you get your facts straight first (especially after your diatribe above).

Or perhaps I should make the claim of a strawman? You throwing one in here (dragon vice great, when it was clarified the question was Re: dragon, not great) and then deriding me over it is a classic example of one regardless of your subsequent backpedalling later in the thread.

But in the end it doesn't matter. I'll take my warning (if the mods feel I warrant one). SR is for all types of players, mage haters and mage lover alike.

The OP asked a question and I gave it the best answer I could. Did I quote all my sources? No because I do not have my books by my side at the very moment I answered initially. Can I? Yes, if the OP were curious where my statements derive from, they could PM me and I'd answer with the page refs once I had a chance to find them to support my claim.

I don't care if the OP is thought to be a munchkin or not. A question was asked and answered. The questioner's reputation (supposed or real) does not factor into my decision to answer a question posed.

If there is genuine interest in me backing up my answer with cites (since there is some disbelief later in the thread), I will post cites that support my answer. All it takes is someone to say so.

PS: SM has a line or two that states a mage's body is considered a prepared vessel for purposes of inhabitation. I'm sure folks can figure it out from there given that Dragons are all magicians.

Would you mind posting up a page reference for these two items when you get back to your books?

And in case you were wondering why pattyhulez is getting such a warm (kill it with fire) reception, here is a listing of all of his/her innocent questions and commentary:

Deformity Negative Quality
Multiple Ally Spirits
"Rigger Mage" Thread #1
"Rigger Mage" Thread #2

There was also a post about "making the most munchkiny, rules-legal character possible" somewhere as well.

That's where the heat is coming from, in case you were confused.

That said, capturing a dragon to have it inhabited by an ally spirit seems like the kind of thing that is the culmination of an entire, higher powered, campaign.

Ally spirit creation is SM page 103 - step 2. Choose Form(s)

The astral projecting mage's body is a vessel is SM page 95

This drug would actually not be that useful against a dragon. But they are much less deadly in astral. Having the equivalent of about 8 strength instead of 30-40. Still they would just powerbolt or stun bolt you to death as someone else said.

Just possessing a dragon an holding onto the body until the dragon's spirit dies would be most easily done buy using a powerful spirit, edge, and real world luck. They can't use twist of fate unless they are aware of the action and can see it. But if the dragons spirit is dead it would make sense that the dragon does not resist the inhabitation change and the result is almost always a true form spirit. True form would be pointless.

It seems that with inhabitation unlike possession the vessel must be prepared. So a few days to prepare the vessel, and a few days to inhabit.

Page 95 street magic
So really it would be relatively easy to take over and permanently steal the body of an astrally projecting dragon with a possession spirit ally but it would be much harder to inhabit them.

If a comatose dragon still resits with its full intuition+willpower then it would then be possible inhabit them for a flesh form or hybrid form spirit/dragon.

This does not mean getting to the dragon and kidnapping them would be at all easy of course.

I won't be back to my books for at least a couple of hours, so I'm curious. Can Ally spirits get Possession? I know they can get Materialization and Inhabitation.

It is in the errata. In the book it is just not mentioned but really it makes sense that they can be possession.

It's also in the newer copies of the book. I have the second printing, and it's listed in mine.

Y'know what - Nah, I'm not gonna rise to this. Keep your backhanded non-apology. You think what you want. You'll have your opinion, I'll have mine.

You mean the one that contradicts what's written in the book?

It's 'the' FAQ; there's only the one. No need for specification. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeas that one(like there's more then one), thats why there's a big smiley in the end. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Thank you.

All of you have no imagination.

To successfully enchant a Great Dragon, all you need is a team of a few hundred mages and/or ally spirits working together in a teamwork/extended test.

A team of a few hundred high-force ally spirits (say force 20 and above) would have no trouble scoring the required hits in order to enchant a great dragon regardless of how powerful his essence/magic is.

Or a team of a few hundred mages burning one point of edge each.

No problemo, chummers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)