CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[hermit]

Which cover for Attitude? Are there previews for it?

[Patrick Goodman]

Which cover for Attitude? Are there previews for it?

The cover for Attitude is on shadowrun4.com.

[emouse]

Maybe SR is still outselling BT, just like it was confirmed back in 2007 by Adam:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18131

Lars

Maybe. Though looking at the products at the time, Shadowrun was getting new material, while Battletech was in the process of reissuing material that was in part reprinting material that had come out under Fanpro. The core rulebook which had just come out under Fanpro was being reprinted, as well as the core tech book, and the major product after that was a new core box set. Those core rulebooks were also very slow to come out at that time, because of their size and complexity.

Sadly, the original article it references is gone.

[tete]

Depends on what's being reviewed. It's possible that Topps is going to keep things in "final review" through con season, so they can have a publisher for that, then yank the rug out afterwards.

I doubt it, contracts in the I.T. world are signed as soon as the lawyers make sure their company is ok from any shinanigans anyone pulls. I would guess lawyers for both sides are ironing out the wording and as soon as thats settled it will be signed.

[Endroren]

Sadly, the original article it references is gone.

Nothing on the internet is ever gone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

July 4th, 2007 "To put it simply, Shadowrun is more popular and sells better than CBT, and Catalyst is very aware how important Shadowrun is to its future growth. "

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/200707131...adowrunrpg.com/

The quote is from the article entitled: Origins, and Clearing the Air

[Adam]

Oh, that explains why I don't remember saying what was attributed to me ... because I didn't write it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tiger Eyes]

Right, so it's apparently time for me to pop in to this thread again.

For the record:

The idea of a conspiracy, or that I (or David or Stephen) quit working for CGL to hurt their chances for license renewal, is completely and totally false.

We each quit for different reasons.

I quit because I was asked by Loren L. Coleman to not include foreign royalties on a royalty report. This was the final straw for me, after seeing and having to work with Loren L. Coleman's various ways of doing business. It was an ethical choice, and a difficult one, since I'm a single mom solely responsible for my two little munchkins, and the prospect of having no job was a very frightening one. In the end, I had to do what was right for me and my family - which was to hold strong to my personal ethics.

David quit before I did. For his own reasons, which I will not presume to state here, but had absolutely nothing to do with Shadowrun, BattleTech, or the licenses. After David quit CGL, HE was approached by a midwestern investment firm that was starting a company within the gaming/publishing industry. They hired David as the General Manager of the company. I did not know about this company until several weeks after I'd quit CGL. In fact, I had already had several interviews and was waiting to hear back from one very fun sounding company, when David approached me with my current job opportunity. David approached and hired the rest of the staff. We didn't have a plan nor jobs lined up when we quit. We are employees of Sandstorm, not owners.

Frankly, while I love Shadowrun, and still play in a weekly game (Animal Adept with a pet Bandit in LA, atm), I'm not working on SR. There are a heck of a lot of other great games out there that don't come with so much freaking baggage. Eclipse Phase is an awesome game. CthulhuTech is tons of fun. There are yet to be announced projects that are taking up my time.

So, please - don't say, or insinuate, that my decision to leave CGL had anything to do with CGL's license status or with a pending job offer from Sandstorm. There was, and is, no conspiracy.

Thank you for your time, your eyeballs, and your attention. I'm going back to working on some awesome games. In fact, I have one to playtest in 30 minutes with my coworkers. At our office, we play a new game every Tues and Thursday. This one is a board game, and I've played it once before with my 5 & 8 year olds, and they loved it. (I love that my kids are not only welcome in my office, but are used as active guinea pigs for playtesting purposes - how many moms can say that? Frankly, that right there was enough to sell me on working for Sandstorm.)

[MindandPen]

Thank you for your time, your eyeballs, and your attention. I'm going back to working on some awesome games. In fact, I have one to playtest in 30 minutes with my coworkers. At our office, we play a new game every Tues and Thursday. This one is a board game, and I've played it once before with my 5 & 8 year olds, and they loved it. (I love that my kids are not only welcome in my office, but are used as active guinea pigs for playtesting purposes - how many moms can say that? Frankly, that right there was enough to sell me on working for Sandstorm.)

Are you guys hiring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-M&P

[Caadium]

(I love that my kids are not only welcome in my office, but are used as active guinea pigs for playtesting purposes - how many moms can say that? Frankly, that right there was enough to sell me on working for Sandstorm.)

[envy]
I wish I had a job where I could bring my girl to work and play games as part of my job duties.
[/envy]

[Deadmannumberone]

Right, so it's apparently time for me to pop in to this thread again.

For the record:

The idea of a conspiracy, or that I (or David or Stephen) quit working for CGL to hurt their chances for license renewal, is completely and totally false.

We each quit for different reasons.

I, personally, am a bit confused about why you keep getting singled out in 'the group of people trying to undermine CGL/IMR's license renewal hopes', when you aren't in that group. Possibly it's because you're an easy mark for trolling (you always respond), or maybe they just have a crush on you and can't think of anything else.

[Nath]

Oh, so the Sandstorm name has nothing to do with the Sandstorm Engineering Conglomerate corporation of Shadowrun ?

[sabs]

Is Sandstorm hiring?

[Tiger Eyes]

Is Sandstorm hiring?

We aren't hiring at the moment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But... we will be at Origins and GenCon, and would love for anyone who's interested in saying hi or learning more about us to stop by. We'll have games to play, fun folks to talk to, and some really great demos (for grownups and for kids!).

(Unless you're an artist, author, writer, or game designer interested in contract work... in which case you can always send a sample of your work to us via our contact info on our website, www.Sandstormllc.com)

[Bob Lord of Evil]

I, personally, am a bit confused about why you keep getting singled out...maybe they just have a crush on you and can't think of anything else.

All that talk about her belly button ring! Drove some people to distraction I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Czar Eggbert]

According to her yes.

But since this is a conspiracy I mean speculation thread lets look at it.

She and the other defectors about non-payment(batteltech guys weren't getting paid and were willing to wait for some reason) made a fuss when oh about 2 months before the license was renewed. Hmm why would game people who like write games try to spoil things for a company they work for right before the license is renewed. I wonder, could it have had nothing to do with the non-payments and could many of there facts been lets say skewed (I wouldn't want to call them liars after all, unhinged maybe but not liars) in order to get the license for themselves. I mean no one would back stab, skew facts, misrepresent people, defame people in order to acquire a license where they could make more money right?

This is Shadowrun! I don't believe that they would do that, but if anyone would do something like that, it would be Shadowrun writers. I could almost see them writing a plot doc for this.... Bwahahaha!*

*in no way do I feel that this is true.

The Eggman

[Kid Chameleon]

[envy]
I wish I had a job where I could bring my girl to work and play games as part of my job duties.
[/envy]

A lot of folks say that. But once you get a look at your first paycheck, you may understand why it sounds much better than it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Cain]

I find it funny how a company that didn't exist at the time could be accused to sabotaging CGL's license. It's not exactly easy to start a company, let alone one with enough investment capital and reputation to pull in a major license like Shadowrun.

Here's a question. Over on RPG.net, there's quite a few people boycotting CGL products. "Voting with their wallets", so to speak. I know I haven't bought a single CGL product since this whole thing came to light. Are there other other people who might go this way?

[Terminax]

Most people who say they'll vote with their wallets, promptly forget to when some time passes and their hankering for whatever they were boycotting gets too high. Sure it's easy to say online but like most things, what you say online isn't what do in real life.

God knows how many times I've told myself I wouldn't buy another Gold Eagle book when The Executioner, Stony Man, Deathlands or Outlanders novels they pump out are just flat out terrible. But the next month... what do I do? Buy another batch of their goddamn books!

[BlueMax]

I buy on a product by product basis. If its a good product, I buy it. There isn't time to follow every rumor about every company.
As to what I have purchased from CGL lately, Masters and Minions comes to mind. Its fantastic.

BlueMax

[Jaid]

I find it funny how a company that didn't exist at the time could be accused to sabotaging CGL's license. It's not exactly easy to start a company, let alone one with enough investment capital and reputation to pull in a major license like Shadowrun.

Here's a question. Over on RPG.net, there's quite a few people boycotting CGL products. "Voting with their wallets", so to speak. I know I haven't bought a single CGL product since this whole thing came to light. Are there other other people who might go this way?

that's a bit hard to say.

i mean, since this whole mess got started, there has been basically one shadowrun book, one novel, and the 10 gangs supplement i think?

honestly, i only bought one of those, but i was only particularly interested in one of those. some people probably have multiple corporate guide equivalents (albeit a bit old), and won't be interested in that. some people just don't buy shadowrun fiction anyways. some people might be waiting for books. and so forth.

with such a relatively small amount of material released, and most of that kinda specialised (and none of it is in print yet to my knowledge?) it's hard to know how much actual boycotting is going on.

however, at a guess, there are probably at least a few people in addition to those on rpg.net and yourself who are choosing to boycott. obviously, i am not one of them (though i *would* like to see better editing/proofreading than i have witnessed in the past few books... corporate guide felt like it was full of minor inaccuracies, and vice had a lot of spelling/grammar errors in the first PDF release as i recall)

[hermit]

The cover for Attitude is on shadowrun4.com.

Ah, it's the boob window, ight. Looks better as a spread though. Is this suposed to be a normal LA shadowrunning team? Or the set for somecheap Trid serial? Well, considering it is a media book, it is okay. Atrtistically, it is very good; I just would object to this being something found on 'War' or any other book that deals with actual running and not ... whatever you want to call the farce they pull in LA.

On a side note, I don't see what boycotting will change. Boycott CGL so they won't be able to pay outstanding bills? You punish the debtors. Punish CGL for having LLC for an owner? You make it less likely Topps considers CGL worth the effort and enforces a change in ownership rather than just sinking CGL and the franchise with it.

I don't see the point.

[Cain]

On a side note, I don't see what boycotting will change. Boycott CGL so they won't be able to pay outstanding bills? You punish the debtors. Punish CGL for having LLC for an owner? You make it less likely Topps considers CGL worth the effort and enforces a change in ownership rather than just sinking CGL and the franchise with it.

I don't see the point.

The point is, every dollar spent is a vote.

If you support Loren L Coleman and his corrupt policies, then vote for them, by spending money. If you support freelancers getting paid on time, plus the respect they deserve, then vote for that by not spending money.

There are thousands of Dumpshockers, and many more Shadowrun players on RPG.net. Let's assume 5000 of them know and care about the situation. Of those, only 10% care enough to boycott. That's 500 books that didn't get sold. In a industry as small as this one, that's a huge statement.

[tweak]

* puts on conspiracy cap* So I'm seeing a flood of new Shadowrun products coming, and I have to wonder how much this has to do with license renewal. Were these products already in the pipe-line and are being pushed out early? Or is this just business as usual?

[Bull]

Already in the pipeline, and being worked on for over a year. The Almanac has been planned for years (And was supposed to be a 25th anniversary product, so should have likely been out last year). I remember talking to John Dunn about Attitude back in March of 2009. And we were talking about War! back at Origins and Gen Con last year.

Bull

[Dacoit]

If you support freelancers getting paid on time, plus the respect they deserve, then vote for that by not spending money.

Actually, as a freelancer, I'm happy to point out that this choice of action will actively hurt my chances of getting the monies owed me. Please don't attempt to describe my interests, even in general.

I'm not saying you have to buy anything you don't want to--just do it for your own reasons. I'm in a far better position to determine what will get me paid and respected than anyone else is. Since I'm, you know... me.