CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[Taharqa]

I used to think this, until SR4A was at Borders and Barnes and Noble. Ain't never seen a Battletech book at a bookstore in the 21st century.

Its funny you say that because not two years ago, I saw a Battletech display at my local Borders.

But I wouldn't spend too much time trying to reading the tea leaves. Only the folks with the sales data know the answer to this question.

[otakusensei]

I don't mean to seem insulting, as that's not the goal here. But what exactly does that matter, or how does it relate? I don't quite understand how your experience with a single store should be an example as a statement across the whole industry. Additionally, I'm really not sure what the relevance was to the topic at large? I can understand you aren't interested in Battletech, but it seems as if you're more interested in bashing the game simply because it is there (at CGL). If there's issues with CGL management (and there are), keep them with the management. Don't let that bleed over onto an unrelated target. Battletech isn't to blame for the problems the company had. Some folks long associated more specifically with Battletech? Sure. But not the game.

I'm saying what I said; where I live Shadowrun is a stronger seller than Battletech. I'm not attacking Battletech by saying that it has no play anywhere I shop or game, I'm saying that it isn't a going concern. That may be different where you live, but I don't personally know anyone who still plays it.

[BlueMax]

Its funny you say that because not two years ago, I saw a Battletech display at my local Borders.

But I wouldn't spend too much time trying to reading the tea leaves. Only the folks with the sales data know the answer to this question.

I think when they finally get the Anniversary Boxed Set out, whatever Anniversary that happens to be, will be a great time for a display at Bookstores.

Boxed Set, A Time of War, the new Map Packs. If that wouldn't make a good display of new material, what would?

I can't think of anything new for SR4A that says display. Can you lads help me?

BlueMax

[Dread Moores]

I used to think this, until SR4A was at Borders and Barnes and Noble. Ain't never seen a Battletech book at a bookstore in the 21st century. I wouldn't doubt if the SR sales were higher. When they finally get off their duffs and print A Time of War, they could make some money. Especially , if they started printing books to go with A Time of War. And I can't wait for the 27th Anniversary Boxed Set, I hope its being sold at a profit.

Whoever got SR back into bookstores, they deserve some massive kudos.

Bluemax

See, and this is the issue with what is entirely anecdotal information. I can walk into the local Borders and find at least the last six BT books. They do not even have SR4 anywhere on the shelves. Does that mean anything at all? Nope. Without actual sales data, there's no way to guess at which was the larger seller. I'd throw a WAG that Battletech was selling more, simply because they've put out more products in recent years than SR. But again, that really means nothing. It just seems odd to even throw the anecdotal information out there at all. *shrugs*

[Mesh]

I can't think of anything new for SR4A that says display. Can you lads help me?

BlueMax

Easy one. Hot Lone Star babe in armor bikini on a unicorn with a chromed out cyber-drill horn piercing her own belly button. In the background: a troll with cyber limbs eating a hand grenade with one hand and carrying around his motorcycle in the other. Hiding in an alley: roach bug spirit with shoulder mounted sawed off assault cannon and cyber foot anchors.

Mesh

[BlueMax]

Easy one. Hot Lone Star babe in armor bikini on a unicorn with a chromed out cyber-drill horn piercing her own belly button. In the background: a troll with cyber limbs eating a hand grenade with one hand and carrying around his motorcycle in the other. Hiding in an alley: roach bug spirit with shoulder mounted sawed off assault cannon and cyber foot anchors.

Mesh

I am in, how do I buy this?

BlueMax

[Mesh]

I am in, how do I buy this?

BlueMax

I'm still writing the module, but the primary objective of the project is to make it into a display.

Mesh

[Dwight]

Not only did one of my quips cause Jason to threaten me, SR Developer Emeritus Tom Dowd threatened me.

Oh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I thought you meant an actual collar and leash, never mind then.

[Shinobi Killfist]

See, and this is the issue with what is entirely anecdotal information. I can walk into the local Borders and find at least the last six BT books. They do not even have SR4 anywhere on the shelves. Does that mean anything at all? Nope. Without actual sales data, there's no way to guess at which was the larger seller. I'd throw a WAG that Battletech was selling more, simply because they've put out more products in recent years than SR. But again, that really means nothing. It just seems odd to even throw the anecdotal information out there at all. *shrugs*

Sure and the people who initially started this point were giving anecdotal battletech points to show why it is taking time away from SR. The entire point start to finish is just based on personal opinions from anecdotal information. So why rail against the SR side of the argument?

[Shinobi Killfist]

You mean "after Loren couldn't convice her predecessor to screw Topps"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

According to her yes.

But since this is a conspiracy I mean speculation thread lets look at it.

She and the other defectors about non-payment(batteltech guys weren't getting paid and were willing to wait for some reason) made a fuss when oh about 2 months before the license was renewed. Hmm why would game people who like write games try to spoil things for a company they work for right before the license is renewed. I wonder, could it have had nothing to do with the non-payments and could many of there facts been lets say skewed (I wouldn't want to call them liars after all, unhinged maybe but not liars) in order to get the license for themselves. I mean no one would back stab, skew facts, misrepresent people, defame people in order to acquire a license where they could make more money right?

[Shinobi Killfist]

Oh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I thought you meant an actual collar and leash, never mind then.

Well since he was talking about inserting a cyber penis somewhere leashes definitely could have been involved. For pain, fun or both.

[otakusensei]

See, and this is the issue with what is entirely anecdotal information. I can walk into the local Borders and find at least the last six BT books. They do not even have SR4 anywhere on the shelves. Does that mean anything at all? Nope. Without actual sales data, there's no way to guess at which was the larger seller. I'd throw a WAG that Battletech was selling more, simply because they've put out more products in recent years than SR. But again, that really means nothing. It just seems odd to even throw the anecdotal information out there at all. *shrugs*

I'm just letting you know what it looks like where I live. I don't concider myself a pillar of the community or claim to have my finger anywhere near the pulse, but there's no market for BT here. You can go ahead and infer what you want on that.

But you are right that Battletech has gotten more money and attention and has gotten more product to shelves under IMR. That would be the very reason why I believe another company would be a better fit. I'd love to see the sales numbers though, but I think we have about as much chance of that happening as seeing Loren Coleman face the consequences of his actions.

[Adam]

She and the other defectors about non-payment(batteltech guys weren't getting paid and were willing to wait for some reason) made a fuss when oh about 2 months before the license was renewed. Hmm why would game people who like write games try to spoil things for a company they work for right before the license is renewed. I wonder, could it have had nothing to do with the non-payments and could many of there facts been lets say skewed (I wouldn't want to call them liars after all, unhinged maybe but not liars) in order to get the license for themselves. I mean no one would back stab, skew facts, misrepresent people, defame people in order to acquire a license where they could make more money right?

I think you should name names or not make posts like this.

As someone who left Catalyst to do my own thing[s], I don't like being lumped into a group of "defectors," "defamers," etc.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I think you should name names or not make posts like this.

As someone who left Catalyst to do my own thing[s], I don't like being lumped into a group of "defectors," "defamers," etc.

I think people should stop making insulting posts in general on this issue. I think my point is why is it okay when bashing one side of the argument but not the other?

[JM Hardy]

I think you should name names or not make posts like this.

As someone who left Catalyst to do my own thing[s], I don't like being lumped into a group of "defectors," "defamers," etc.

And to jump on Adam's bandwagon, I would like to once again ask people not to cast aspersions on the people who left Catalyst. They did so for their reasons, and trying to have a public conversation about it puts them in a very difficult position if they want to keep private things private. It's unfair to them, so I'd like it not to happen.

Jason H.

[Demonseed Elite]

She and the other defectors about non-payment(batteltech guys weren't getting paid and were willing to wait for some reason) made a fuss when oh about 2 months before the license was renewed. Hmm why would game people who like write games try to spoil things for a company they work for right before the license is renewed. I wonder, could it have had nothing to do with the non-payments and could many of there facts been lets say skewed (I wouldn't want to call them liars after all, unhinged maybe but not liars) in order to get the license for themselves. I mean no one would back stab, skew facts, misrepresent people, defame people in order to acquire a license where they could make more money right?

I must not have gotten the conspiracy memo, since I started my fuss in 2008.

Also, the reason why so many of the freelancers acted up when they did was because the whole thing about Loren L. Coleman and the bank account draws started to come to light. That impacted the confidence many freelancers had in the ability to get long-delayed checks.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I must not have gotten the conspiracy memo, since I started my fuss in 2008.

Also, the reason why so many of the freelancers acted up when they did was because the whole thing about Loren L. Coleman and the bank account draws started to come to light. That impacted the confidence many freelancers had in the ability to get long-delayed checks.

Oh yeah totally. I called it a conspiracy for a reason. There can be legitimate reasons for why people left and why they were angry. But there does seem to be a common theme going in this thread that there is Mr. Evil and everyone else on the other side has done no wrong. I suspect both sides could of handled things better and most acts were mistakes and not intentional wrong doings. But I trust in incompetence.

[DireRadiant]

I think people should stop making insulting posts in general on this issue. I think my point is why is it okay when bashing one side of the argument but not the other?

Bashing anyone on any side is not ok.

[Larsine]

Maybe SR is still outselling BT, just like it was confirmed back in 2007 by Adam:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18131

Lars

[LurkerOutThere]

If Tiger Eyes isn't sick of these threads she'll likely come in here to set the record straight again but if my recollection of events is correct she has stated repeatedly that.

1) She left of her own free will. She had certain interpersonal choices and relationship issues, even ethical ones but ultimately she walked out the door, she wasn't forced to do so.

While I want to distance myself quite a bit from what Killfist is suggesting I do get his salient point. Dumpshock has become the attack vehicle of choice for slinging mud at CGL/IMR Jason and others. It's gotten quite personal to be honest and the amount of accusations that get flung here are just shocking. But no one calls the folks who call IMR/CGL thieves and liars on their behaviors from a moderation standpoint usually. It's become acceptable, but somehow questioning Jennifer or the other sandstorm's folks motives seems to be beyond the pale.

EDIT AND ADDENDUM: I want to be absolutely clear that I'm not accusing them of trying to undermine to get the license, however frankly I can't see it as beyond the realm of possibility. Some of them are very passionate about the game but have burned their bridges with the company and people that currently make the game. Passionate people do strange things all the time. I want to believe the best about everyone involved even people I disagree with or even people like Loren who by confirmed accounts F'd up, or like Bobby who did the same on a much smaller and different scale. But I cannot rule out the possibility or how some could get that perception.

[Dr.Rockso]

Maybe we should make it a custom to re-post quotes of all the people who left where they state that there is no evil conspiracy™ and that they left for the reasons they stated? Might save them the trouble of having to come in here every iteration of this thread to set the record straight...

[BlueMax]

Maybe SR is still outselling BT, just like it was confirmed back in 2007 by Adam:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18131

Lars

Lars,
Facts? information? This is a speculation thread. Tone it up a little. sheesh.
Next thing you know, people will be calm and rational.
You are on watch buddy.

/me puts on his "Who watches the Watchmen?" button.

BTW, I *totally* remembered this but my search foo failed me and I gave up. OK, I remembered something like it but not enough to search effectively.

BlueMax

[Adam]

I think people should stop making insulting posts in general on this issue. I think my point is why is it okay when bashing one side of the argument but not the other?

This isn't about sides. It's about accuracy; saying "She and the others" is not clear. I wasn't telling you not to say what you were saying, but to be clear about who you were saying it about, so they could reply in turn, as necessary.

[Shinobi Killfist]

This isn't about sides. It's about accuracy; saying "She and the others" is not clear. I wasn't telling you not to say what you were saying, but to be clear about who you were saying it about, so they could reply in turn, as necessary.

But it is a conspiracy theory we don't know who could be involved. It could go all the way to the top. And this conspiracy is so deep we do not know who the top is. Dud duh duhhh.

[Patrick Goodman]

The covers for both Attitude and Sixth World Almanac, in my opinion, say "Show me off!!"