20th Anniversary Book, Got it? Like it? Hate it? Options

[hobgoblin]

the "problem" is stun in general, as the stun track is more often then not shorter then the physical track these days...

[Angier]

Showing that this is the fault of the players underestimating willpower as an important defensive attribute. the consequenses are a more often than not above-average body attribute resulting in an increased physical damage track. most of the archetypes don't show this attitude.

another question.

p. 338 says: "Commlink: An implanted version of the commlink (p. 327), popular with hackers
and salarymen on the go. A Sim Module (modified for hot sim or not) may be implanted
at additional cost."

At what additional cost? of an regular sim-module? implanted sim-module? what about essence cost?

Oh and the entry for "image link" on p. 341 is fubar.

[Larsine]

I realy like the way the Creating A Shadowrunner chapter has been streamlined.

It's now a logical way to build up your shadowrunner (Metatype -> Qualities -> Attributes -> Skills -> Resources) instead of the old way (Metatype -> Attributes -> Skills -> Qualities -> Resources).

Lars

[Rotbart van Dain...]

So, Shadowrun 4.5 then?

That's not that far from the truth, probably.

[Prime Mover]

I haven't seen any comments on the new art. Any vehicles or additional gear/weapons depicted? I've only seen one response to the new fiction, anyone else have an opinion?

[Wesley Street]

I'm an amateur InDesign geek myself.

QuarkXPress 4 EVAH! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Adobe image creation and manipulation software is good but they've got a way to go when it comes to high-end page layout software.

[hermit]

I haven't seen any comments on the new art. Any vehicles or additional gear/weapons depicted? I've only seen one response to the new fiction, anyone else have an opinion?

Love the new art. That's the visual overhaul SR has needed. No new vehicle or gun art (save for new example guns that, while finally coherent and well done, will leave people divided for looking very different from previous renditions) though.

I like where SR seems to be going artistically, though. I really hope this is what we can expect from all future books now, including full-colour interiors. Hell, if it works for smaller systems like CthulhuTech, it should work for SR, too.

QuarkXPress 4 EVAH!

Hell yeah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Any vehicles or additional gear/weapons depicted?

Actually, there are less gear-related pictures overall and every old picture was removed. (Maybe due to licensing uncertainties.)

The weapons got it bad especially - the new pictures are mostly gray, blocky and mostly neither match the description (Ruger Warhawk portrayed as a heavy automatic gun) nor the original (Ares Alpha has no underbarrel grenade launcher and isn't bullpup).

[Lindt]

Does this mean I should buy that LE and use it vs keeping a copy of the eratta next to my fanpro issued LE? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[hermit]

Actually, there are less gear-related pictures overall and every old picture was removed. (Maybe due to licensing uncertainties.)

Considering a couple of old pictures WERE used, I'd think that was more of an artistic decision.

Ares Alpha has no underbarrel grenade launcher and isn't bullpup

It has in my book, it just looks weird. Also, sorry, but the firearms I know don't tend to come in shiny colours. Agree on the Warhawk though, and the AACG failing to look bullpuppy. Well, still beats the old stuff, like the Roomsweeper pic in Arsenal 2060e. I do see room for improvement there, of course. Mike V. could easily have asked Raben-Aas.

Anyone got a link for Aas' site? I'll link it in the CthulhuTech boards; I know Mike V. is active there. Same with Biometal.

[Mäx]

is it correct that improving an attribute costs now *5 rather than *3?

This is compledly ridiculus when you ably it to karmagen.
My sasha whent from 249 karma in atributes to 415 and my face character from 296 to 495 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
This is really gonna encourage using dumphstats.

[hobgoblin]

meaning they leave themselves open to being slapped around...

[BookWyrm]

LIke I said, if these 'updates/upgrades' from the 20th Anniversary edition become available separately, I might download it, providing that it's less than, say, $10.

It's not that I don't like what it is, I just cannot afford it at this time.

[piotrus]

Showing that this is the fault of the players underestimating willpower as an important defensive attribute. the consequenses are a more often than not above-average body attribute resulting in an increased physical damage track. most of the archetypes don't show this attitude.

Two or three more dice to resist or checkboxes are not that much of a difference; the real killer is lack of willpower armor equivalent. Combine it with the fact that stun has low drain and is often more useful (you can always shot them when they are unconcious, but its harder to revive them once you've killed them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) and this is why stun was (is...?) so broken. A mage can keep throwing stunspells and taking down opponents like a panther assault cannon on steroids, or can do it maybe once with an elemental spell and bleed his brain through his ears... I'd have to check my notes, but 10 point effective stun damage (effective means hitting the stun boxes) is equal about 3 points of effective body damage in a fireball, and that's not counting the fact that elemental spells give the target a chance to dodge it... did I mention combat spells were very unbalanced? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Back on topic: as our proofreading notes are being applied to the print edition, can we also expect that a new, erratad version of the pdf will be released in the future (and made free to those who are buying the pdf now)?

[Adam]

Back on topic: as our proofreading notes are being applied to the print edition, can we also expect that a new, erratad version of the pdf will be released in the future (and made free to those who are buying the pdf now)?

Yes. But it won't be ASAP; the few changes that have been made are very minor or cosmetic at this point -- mostly the sort of stuff that we don't even note in errata documents.

And please make sure that if you see something, it gets posted this this thread: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=25706 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SincereAgape]

I almost crapped in my pants after viewing this edition on the main website. I am actually looking forward to the Runner's Toolkit even more.

Any other places one can order or receive the Limited Edition other then through Battlecorp?

Will regular game stores be able to order one?

[Adam]

Will regular game stores be able to order one?

Yes, regular game stores can order the limited edition.

[Muspellsheimr]

LIke I said, if these 'updates/upgrades' from the 20th Anniversary edition become available separately, I might download it, providing that it's less than, say, $10.

It's not that I don't like what it is, I just cannot afford it at this time.

The changes are official errata, & will be released as such at an undetermined (but supposedly soonish) date.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

This is compledly ridiculus when you ably it to karmagen.

Or rather the point is: It brings down karmagen to the level of BP gen... or lower.

[Tashiro]

I'd like to see, in some book, a side-by-side comparison of male and female for each metatype, with a 'height chart' to compare them to a human being, just so people have a clear reference. One of the things I really liked in the old critters books was the same thing done for animals, so we had an idea of just how big each animal was. Saying something is 'three metres tall' only goes so far... when you show the size comparison, people go 'oh my god!' though, which works a lot better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SincereAgape]

Yes, regular game stores can order the limited edition.

Thanks Adam. I guess you can suspect the second question coming up very soon. How soon? Would they be able to place a hold or an order on one? I have my gaming store in speed dial as we speak.

[Adam]

Thanks Adam. I guess you can suspect the second question coming up very soon. How soon? Would they be able to place a hold or an order on one? I have my gaming store in speed dial as we speak.

We don't have a street date yet. Game stores found out about this book at the same time as we announced it to the public, so some of them may not yet be aware of it.

Stock numbers are: 2600A (Standard Edition, $44.99), 2600ALE (Limited Edition, $64.99)

[BlueMax]

I'd like to see, in some book, a side-by-side comparison of male and female for each metatype, with a 'height chart' to compare them to a human being, just so people have a clear reference. One of the things I really liked in the old critters books was the same thing done for animals, so we had an idea of just how big each animal was. Saying something is 'three metres tall' only goes so far... when you show the size comparison, people go 'oh my god!' though, which works a lot better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Back in my day...

We had a picture of a human next to the critters for comparison. But we also had wonderful open layouts that pleased the eyes, two pages per critter and plenty of shadowtalk.

Now, get off my lawn.

BlueMax
who could literally use a cane right now.

[JoelHalpern]

Calling the rules changes "tweaks" or "errata" seems to stretch the definition of the terms.
In at least two cases, given the duration of the game, and the magnitiude of the change, it just does not fit.
1) Moving attribute karma cost from 3*rating to 5*rating is a big deal. It means that karmagen goes from an interesting alternative which was a bit overpowered to a lower power alternative. There are many starting builds under BP that literally can not be created under the 375 Karma for all attributes rule of Karmagen.
2) Increasing the drain for direct damage combat spells is a major shift in balance. Some folks will like it. Some will hate it. But calling it errata or a tweak is rather misleading.

These two are sufficiently major that I keep hoping it is an elaborate joke.
Yes, many people complained that mages were over-powered. I could imagine the combat spell rule as an optional rule, for GMs who felt that way. But as an errata to the base book?

Yours,
Joel

[Wesley Street]

But we also had wonderful open layouts that pleased the eyes, two pages per critter and plenty of shadowtalk.

Heh. Try that now and the cries of "rip-off!" would be deafening.