Would you like to live in the SR universe?, Soy, Acid Rain, Invae, Woohoo!!! Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[emo samurai]

On one hand, you have magic and gizmos and gadgets. Magic fucking rocks, and if the Awakening happens, I will become a mage by virtue of my rocking. Crippled people will walk and manipulate things again because of cloned organs and cyberware. Most current diseases will have been cured because of crazy unethical medical research.

On the other hand, you have soy food, monsters that go bump and "grr eat human" in the night, and megacorporate control. Oh, and cybered gangs, and drugs, and coffin motels, and... you get the point.

So which world would you live in, our world, or the world of sort-of-darkness?

[Platinum]

yes, but only if I was magically active.

[James McMurray]

I've got no problems being a corporate lackey if it gives me the benefits of the 6th world. Some folks on this board think I'm a government lackey and I'm not seeing any magic or cool toys for it. Might as well get the goods if you're gonna get the reputation. :)

[Shrike30]

Live in the SR world? Where the OTHER 1% of the population has magic, strange and new wonderful diseases crop up every day, people shoot at medics and firefighters to try and steal their cars, and the happy middle class lifestyle is only possible if you're willing to expose yourself to corporate media and brainwashing 24/7? I think I'll pass.

[James McMurray]

Apart from the magic, we're well on our way to something similar already. Depending on what neighborhood you're in you might already be living it. :(

[PBTHHHHT]

[Shrike30]

Heh.

[emo samurai]

Yeah, magic should even things out.

[Sahandrian]

Yes. Because if I don't get magic, I can still deck.

[Backgammon]

It's a DYSTOPIA. EVERYTHING has gone wrong. Only depressed people would want to live in that.

[emo samurai]

What if you were a magician?

[deek]

I would certainly be up for that...although I would like to pick up some new skills or something...I wouldn't want to end up being exactly who I am today and be living in SR...I would probably suck:)

[hyzmarca]

The trick to living comfortably in SR is the same is it is today. Don't anger someone who has both the means and the willingness to kill you. Also, never become a cyberzombie.

[BookWyrm]

If I were a mage, oh hell yes.

[emo samurai]

Dude, mages rock.

[Shrike30]

[stevebugge]

No thanks. If I wanted to live in an SR like setting I'd move to Somalia or Sierra Leone. I'm still in Seattle 'nuff said.

[Kyoto Kid]

...only if I were human and lived in the Swiss Confederation.

[Butterblume]

I so voted no...

[James McMurray]

[emo samurai]

What do you mean by peachy? I thought that the average megacorp office was a really oppressive place with corp propaganda spewing everywhere and bureaucratic bullshit burying everything that you do, coupled with stupid passive-aggressive office politics keeping you from working efficiently like in Snow Crash's federal government. Those sound like good reasons to run to the shadows if you're good enough to survive on your own.

[FanGirl]

You just described the average megacorp office of today.

Honestly, I could go either way, though I guess it would mainly depend on whether or not my place in society would be better in the SR universe than it is in this one. Since I can't see any way of predicting that, I'll stick with this world. You know, bird in the hand and all that stuff.

EDIT: I just want to throw out a quote that seems to run through SR's history: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. No matter how often people lament the good old days, the quote is very, very true.

(Look it up, you ignoramuses. :D )

[mfb]

jesus christ, no. the fact that the real world is starting to soud like an RPG setting is scary enough.

[DragginSPADE]

I voted no as well.
I like being able to do my job without extensive cyber enhancement, thank you very much.

[PBTHHHHT]

oh c'mon draggin, you can lose the arm... and part of your brain matter. A person can survive on less of that grey stuff, it's just filler space. ;-)

[Demon_Bob]

Do I get to be someone the rich or powerful come to and politely ask for help?

Or am I just another wage slave struggling to survive form month to month?

[James McMurray]

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Kyoto Kid]

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Witness]

I suppose it would kind of depend if you got to choose where and how you lived in the SR universe.

Actually though magic is one thing I really wouldn't want to live with. I'm not sure SR has really successfully explored the consequences:

You get enormous power being 'inherited' by a large number of people covering every spectrum of ideology and morality.

Everyone (unless rich enough to place countermeasures) gets to feel totally paranoid about whether they are being magically spied upon or manipulated. (EDIT: in SR there really ought to be massive bias against magicians and spirits, far more so than anti-metahuman bigotry)

But worst of all, for an individual and for a society, you no longer have any way to tell what's real or not. Somebody could be bullshitting, or they could be talking about magic. If magic hit the real world I honestly think science and reason would evaporate, and the world would be a much worse place without them. IMO.

EDIT 2: Ah I see I've inadvertantly wandered into the same theme that's in emo's other thread. No matter.

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Witness]

Uh no. They don't read my emotions or astrally spy on my girlfriend in the shower. Let's get some perspective here!

[nezumi]

I'd prefer to live in 2060 than have to live through 2011 :P

The end is near!!

[SL James]

[Witness]

Well that just flags up the whole problem of there being riggers with minidrones everywhere!
No, the SR world is a significantly less pleasant place to live than the real world (however much we might bitch about it). I'm fairly astounded at the status of the poll so far.

[mfb]

yeah. i'm not sure the people who voted 'yes' fully understand why "may you live in interesting times" is a curse. to put it into perspective: Gaza would make a good setting for an interesting run. anybody want to move there?

[James McMurray]

Nope, but I wouldn't be living in Gaza, I'd be living in a corporate compound with it's own security forces, mall, and geisha house. The odds of a typical corporate citizen ever encountering a shadowrunner or terrorist in their day-to-day life are pretty slim.

[Witness]

I think this might be where the question breaks down.

Reckon a lot of people are answering 'yes, because in the SR world I'd be rich and uber.' Bless. ;)

[James McMurray]

Nope, I wouldn't be rich and uber. I'd most likely be just what I am now: middle to upper middle class corporate grunt. Barring accidents of birth or twists of fate, ability coupled with actions determines where you are in life. So assuming my life remains comparatively the same as far as outside influences go, I should be at about the same spot.

If it weren't for the violence I'd probably be a shadowrunner. I'm allergic to pain though, which leaves that line of work out.

[Witness]

And you'd still rather live in the SR universe than this one?

[James McMurray]

Why not? Overall the life a typical citizen doesn't change much. Instead of living under the laws of Texas and the USA I live under the laws of whiever corporate enclave I work for, and sometimes under the laws of whichever country I step into outside my corp's doors. The world in the seedier areas is more dangerous, but it's not hard to avoid those areas.

In exchange I get much cooler toys, cybernetic replacements should I ever suffer the loss of a body part, cultivated organs should I ever need a transplant, nature is being slowly rebuilt and national parks are run by Native Americans that instead of crying in a TV commercial to tell you not to mess with Texas they power bolt you and send spirits of the earth to torment you, and when I go see a magic show it's real magic.

Th SR world is really only dangerous through:

• quirks of fate, like having the bad luck to be in the Arcology when Deus decides to start his reign of terror
• personal choice by going into the seedier sides of the world
• placing yourself in a position of importance, such as being a researcher on an important project

In my life now numbers two and three aren't a concern and number one can still happen, albeit with different flavor text attached.

[PBTHHHHT]

[Witness]

Hmm. You build a decent case there, James. But it sounds to me like your vision of SR maybe isn't dystopian enough. Allow me!

You've probably lost all your savings in the Crash 2.0.
Your corporation is now picking up your tab and owns your ass in perpetuity (as well as the asses of all future generations of McMurrays).
You've been moved to a miserable office with grey lighting and there's no windows within 500 yards, and they don't let you decorate it with AR because that's a distraction.
You work 12 hours a day, because if you don't someone else will, and when I say work, I really do mean work, because they're always watching you.
You spend another three hours a day stuck in traffic because some git's blown up half the street.
Hackers keep taking money out of your account, and nobody seems to want to do anything about it.
You can't go out at night without a) somebody picking your pockets, b) somebody picking a fight with you, c) somebody trying to sell you their 'services', or d) somebody trying to recruit you to a cult.
You get assaulted by spam just about everywhere you go, despite spending half your life and wage upgrading your filters to the latest version you can afford. You'd turn your commlink off, but you need it on to pass the toll booths.
You are bombarded by glamorous trid shows full of cool tech that you can't actually afford (probably ever), while simultaneously getting bombarded with the message that you're just a wageslave among a billion and you'll never amount to anything more (so why not try our new SimThriller experience!).
Your 14-year old daughter comes home one day as an Ork poser.
She's dating a troll called FcukU who chews pencils like some punks would chew toothpicks. And sometimes you swear she's walking funny.

[nezumi]

I'd have to toss my chips in with James.

I'd still live in a tiny apartment, except now I can be pretty sure I will have the money for my rent plus medical care, and the commute will likely be kinder. I'll also have the advantage of the private facilities of my corporation, and the general mindset that taking care of my personal life for me means I will work better. I'll likely have a job which actually tests my skills because putting a programmer in charge of intern work is a waste of resources. I'd have cyberware, which is awesome, and the matrix, which is awesome. Assuming I'm coming in at about the same social class I'm in now, in the real world, disease and the barrens aren't really a concern. My luxury time includes better online games, more fun movies, more geeky pursuits I enjoy.

The big downside is I'd have to work longer hours and see less of my actual pay (swapping it out for other extras the job offers) and nasty food. Strangely enough, jobs seem more secure in Shadowrun than they do IRL due to the concept of corporate loyalty. Life expectancy is surprisingly high.

Sure, Shadowrun has its risks, but so does real life, and playing as shadowrunners, we generally ONLY see the risky parts of the job. Most people in the shadowrun universe likely make it through their entire life without contracting a mysterious disease, getting shot, kidnapped, tested upon, dissected, etc.

To answer the comments here:

- You've probably lost all your savings in the Crash 2.0.

Being young, I have about $7k in the bank. I'll live.

-Your corporation is now picking up your tab and owns your ass in perpetuity (as well as the asses of all future generations of McMurrays).

So they have a vested interest in making sure I'm healthy and happy, no?

-You've been moved to a miserable office with grey lighting and there's no windows within 500 yards, and they don't let you decorate it with AR because that's a distraction.

That's where I am now (except the window is closer to 30 yards, but it overlooks a parking lot).

-You work 12 hours a day, because if you don't someone else will, and when I say work, I really do mean work, because they're always watching you.

This is my one luxury :) But at least I'd work doing what I enjoy - programming, instead of the stupid work I do now.

-You spend another three hours a day stuck in traffic because some git's blown up half the street.

This depends on where you work. If I'm still in the gov't, yeah. If I'm in a corporation, especially one that expects me to work 12 hours a day, this is a lot less likely. They are far more likely to make sure corporate housing is available, or at least there is housing available in the local area. An hour drive + odds of accidents seriously impacts productivity and dependability of ALL employees.

-Hackers keep taking money out of your account, and nobody seems to want to do anything about it.

I question this as well. Zurich - the banking corporation - has very, very tough systems. Do you have any evidence that hacking money out of accounts is a regularly occuring problem in Shadowrun? Even with dedicated decker characters, I've yet to see anyone even try.

-You can't go out at night without a) somebody picking your pockets, b) somebody picking a fight with you, c) somebody trying to sell you their 'services', or d) somebody trying to recruit you to a cult.

I'm a geek. I don't go out anyways.

-You get assaulted by spam just about everywhere you go, despite spending half your life and wage upgrading your filters to the latest version you can afford. You'd turn your commlink off, but you need it on to pass the toll booths.

I'm a geek. I get harassed by spam anyways.

-You are bombarded by glamorous trid shows full of cool tech that you can't actually afford (probably ever), while simultaneously getting bombarded with the message that you're just a wageslave among a billion and you'll never amount to anything more (so why not try our new SimThriller experience!).

I'm a geek, I look at things I can't buy anyways. Seriously, this is a reason why I should turn down the shadowrun life? I'd already have a datajack, how cool is that???

-Your 14-year old daughter comes home one day as an Ork poser.

Hawt. Oh wait, she's my daughter? Huh... That's a shame.

-She's dating a troll called FcukU who chews pencils like some punks would chew toothpicks. And sometimes you swear she's walking funny.

Again, seriously, how is this different from real life? It's not like teenage pregnancy isn't a common problem. Plus at least now I can tell Lone Star that FcukU has been up to some BTL dealing and they can go break some knee caps. After all, he is a troll, we know they're all dock workers or dealers anyway, right?

[Witness]

So they've tried to create a game that's a grim futuristic dystopia, a lot like the modern world, perhaps, but much much worse, based on a bunch of tropes about how sucky the world is and how it's all going to hell in a handbasket. We play in this universe as Shadowrunners, because then at least we get to play with cool toys and do dangerous and exciting things, and it doesn't actually matter if we 'die'.

But the significant majority of people frequenting DS really think that that world would really be a better place to live than this one? Wow. I am so depressed!

[nezumi]

They built a world based on the extreme fears of the '80s, not of the present day. The extreme anti-punk attitude, threats based on nationalism and privacy, both concepts most people have already largely given up. It's also a world built on "what can we put in that's cool" and "how would this employer operate to maximize income", both of which have benefits for the individual.

Plus, I've tried living here. It was fun. I think if I lived in the shadowrun universe and you asked me if I wanted to live in 2006 or 1946 or whatever, I would have a difficult time passing it up. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see it.

[stevebugge]

[Witness]

It's about the most flagrant case of 'the grass is always greener' that I've ever seen!
But to each their own.

[Lindt]

[nezumi]

[James McMurray]

[SL James]

[nezumi]

Being the sort of person I am, I really would prefer to rely on Lone Star rather than my own shooting skill to take FcukU down.

[James McMurray]

I guess it all boils down to the view you have of SR and to what level the dystopian factor works. When I'm running a game, the runners and other SINless unfortunates have a crappy life. People that tow the party line and do their jobs live fairly well. That makes it even more a kick in the gut to the runners that don't have what they want, or have given it all up for individuality and the fast life.

[mfb]

[James McMurray]

Yeah, there are large areas of crime. I'll be keeping out of those.

The quirks are bigger and different, but I imagine the average person's life is still as uneventful as it is today. You're born, you work, you die. Hopefully at some point in the cycle you find someone to spend your time with, and if all goes well and you're ready for the responsibility you have some kids so that they can be born, work, then die (hopefully with someone special of their own).

Like I said, we have different views of how SR life affects the people in society who are willing to go along with the flow. Shadowrunners and criminals have horrible lives because they go against that flow, often violently. While it is possible that I would find myself in a postiion of importance, it's not very likely. Important positions are usually filled by people with the motivation and drive to get to those parts. All I want to do is make my paycheck so I can have fun with friends and family, and carve out a future for the ones I leave behind when I go.

[Witness]

[stevebugge]

Time for a spin-off thread I think

[mfb]

[James McMurray]

Or you go about your life blissfully. I'm sure that's what the vast majority of the masses do. Those that pay attention to the stock market are probably very careful never to put all their eggs in one basket, and never in the basket that they work in. Like today though, most folks just go under the assumption that if it isn't in their living room or cube then it doesn't exist.

[mfb]

i should have explained the stock market thing better--i don't mean that people are worried about investments, i mean that people are worried that the company they work for might get ripped apart in some corporate maneuver.

and i think you're giving people either too much or too little credit. regardless of which it is, people will be afraid because they'll have friends and family who fell victim to one horrible disaster or another. i mean, have you looked at the number of people who died during the decades immediately before and after the Awakening?

[SL James]

[hyzmarca]

[mfb]

[James McMurray]

I meant that people wouldn't follow the stock market because they wouldn't know what signs to look for to know that their company is about to be bought out. The ones that do know would diversify assets to try and avoid a really hard hit.

[mfb]

it's not just Puyallup, though. every district has several gangs, and so do all of the major highways.

[Witness]

Some way above I took a whole bunch of everyday annoyances and extrapolated them out to Sixth World dimensions, which seems like a pretty good Make-Your-Own-Shadowrun-Universe strategy.
One thing that comes across loud and clear from this thread is the immense dissatisfaction felt by fairly ordinary people in this world (dissatisfied to the extent that the SR universe looks attractive by comparison). It seems to me that this phenomenon would be super-sized in the Sixth World as well. After all, everyday joes end up painting their walls with AR, hooking themselves up to BTLs, or plunging themselves into the shadows just to get some sense that their life is ok, even if their original life was much safer.

[ShadowDragon8685]

That's more of a human phenomina. Almost anything seems better than what you're in right now.

You ever heard an old guy grumping about the good old days? That's because he's in the now, and he's forgotten what life was actually life back then, and he just remembers all the good things, like being 20 years old and courting his beau.

Or any of us, who love escapist fantasy. D&D, Shadowrun, whatever. We hate modern day life. Iraq, Afghanistan, terror in the air, 9/11...

Some of us pine for a future where mages and trolls exist and you can master your own destiny with a cyberdeck/comlink/set of cyberware/magical powers.

Some of us pine for heroic fantasy, where the elves were beautiful and put out, the heros were huge and heroic, and evil was powerful but dumb, and thus overcomable.

Some of us pine for romantic notions about pirate gold and treasure, and high adventure on the high seas. (Watch Pirates of the Caribbean again, it'll come back to you.)

Hell, some of us think that being back in the Cold War would be better than now. In a way, it's true. We were 99.99% certain that the Soviets didn't want to see their way of life anhilliated any more than we wanted to see ours anhilliated, and we were at least 50% sure they didn't nessessarily want to anhilliate our way of life, only safeguard theirs.

You could understand and reason with the Soviets. The modern day terror? No way. How can one reason with someone who will strap a vest of explosives on and detonate it in a crowded bus? They literally think that if they blow up the world and in doing so anhilliate our way of life, they'll get on the express straight to heaven and their 77 virgins.

Or worse, Kim-Jong Il, the lunatic nut who takes brinksmanship to a whole new level. The North Korean has no freedom of information, he only knows what he's allowed to know, and he's been brainwashed and propagandized into believing that we could sweep over the border at any minute to wipe out their democratic people's republic. (Even if it's democratic and a republic in name only.) Thusly, he'll fight to the death.

You can't reason with that. And frankly it's scary.*


Or hell, you could pine for the days of WWII, where everything was clean-cut, everybody knew without doubt that we were fighting a war that was not only just and rightious, but that would dictate the terms of our civilization's unfolding for at least a century to come, and probably longer. Sure, the technology sucked and yadda yadda, but at least you could look in a mirror and say "I'm doing what is right, and if I don't, my children are either going to be shipped to a gas chamber, or grow up swearing Heil Hitler."

You can't get that today. Freedom of information and the sensationalist press cloud things and tint them to the point that you can't do anything without being called a bully. And when you try, shit gets ploughed in your face.

Yes, I do believe Afghanistan and Iraq needed to be invaded. I do not believe invading Iraq under false pretenses was good. I do not believe going in with only vauge goals and no definable exit strategy was good. The only good thing that has come so far of the war in Iraq is the nipping in the bud of the Hussein Dynasty.



*Yes, I am expressing my own opinions. Islamic fundies scare the shit out of me, just like fundies of any stripe would if I had reasonable cause to believe they could get their hands on some very nasty weapons of mass death. I'm not accusing every moslem or arab of being a lunatic - I'm just saying that the lunatics amongst them scare me pale.

[SL James]

I wouldn't call Dumpshockers ordinary by any stretch. But the collective dissatisfaction on these related threads is palpable enough to roll into balls and toss around in a game of Emo Ball (It's like Calvin Ball, but as a meandering of people bitching about how no else gets them and how they think they're so fucking special).

[Witness]

Yes, as I was typing that I was aware that the term 'ordinary' could easily be contested!

Shadowdragon: yes, like I was saying: 'the grass is always greener...'

[Nidhogg]

[Witness]

Doh.

[nezumi]

[Neverborn]

this is my inner nerd speaking by all means

Well i personally would really like to live in the shadowrun Universe, I really dig the whole commlink and AR thing, it just seems really appealing to me. Things would be a little more dangerous yet interesting, sure instead of running into a gang of humans you could run into a gang of Troll Physical Adepts which would probably suck

Magic would be there and that never really gets old. I wanna know what its like to cast a fireball spell or something of that nature. Trid would be really entertaining, yea the corprate world would kinda be a bummer but i mean i know i wouldnt really be apart of it.

Cyberware would be interesting imagine delta wired reflexs level three and how crazy that would be. Concert would be bad ass to, plus i want an animated tattoo and glowing hair.

Oh and the main reason is because id be really eight deep in some hot elf chicks would pretty much seal the deal im not gonna lie

[SL James]

Gah. Your description sounds like hipster Hell.

[Neverborn]

I think i was shooting for that

[Nidhogg]

[NightmareX]

[mfb]

*shrug* you're assuming you'd be a badass shadowrunner. in my games, at least, the streets are full of people who'd like to be badass shadowrunners--and Potter's Field is even more full of 'em. besides, one of the benefits of the here-and-now is that you're much, much less likely to be on a bus that some crazy terrorist decides to blow up.

and even if i could be a badass shadowrunner, i still don't think i'd choose to live in the SR world. being a badass has baggage that they don't tell you about in the movies.

[NightmareX]

[hyzmarca]

You don't have to be a baddass shadowrunner so long as the other guy isn't. If he's a suicide bomber then he probably isn't baddass. Baddasses don't blow themselves up unless their bombs rhyme with 'bucklear.'

[mfb]

if you really want that, you can join any number of military or paramilitary organizations right now, in the real world. there are plenty of people who enjoy that lifestyle; if you think it's for you--if you want the chance to "really live", stop sitting in front of a computer and go live. go see the sights, meet interesting people, and kill them. and then, if you get tired of it, you can come home to a nice consulting job.

and your wife and kids won't have to worry about being on that bus.

[NightmareX]

[mfb]

then, regardless, your chance at "really living" would be largely limited to saying "oh shit that guy's got a--"

if that sounds like fun, catch a bus to a large city and walk around some of its less savory neighborhoods for a while. you'll get that same experience, and--like i said--your wife, kids, family, friends, pet ferret, etcetera won't have to worry about being on that bus.

[Shadow]

I want the the guns, cars, cyber and other toys. Sure life sucsk, the world has gone to hell in unimaginable ways. Life is a state of mind, for those few of us who have lived in a cardboard box at one time or another, we know this. At lease in 2070 I could carry guns, be faster than the Six Million Dollar man, and blow the crap out of people who were idiots.

[James McMurray]

[James McMurray]

Does living under a bridge count? It was spring so I didn't see the need for a box. :)

[ShadowDragon8685]

It's all about the cyberware for me. Unless I got lucky enough to become Awakened - hell, I could roll with that.

But if not... Load my head up with shit, man. I'm jacking in, and if I can go GitM, so much the better.

Who needs the meat world when you can breeze through the Matrix, battling it out with IC and corp deckers? Okay, so it's dangerous... But in 2060, what isen't? At least it'd be cool as hell.

Though I should note that the qualifiers about "Me" appearing straight in 2060, as opposed to having been born in 2045 or something apply. If I could go in forearmed with my knowledge of the SR world and plot and stuff... Hell yes. If not? Well..... Heh. I guess in 2060, there's 80 year old guys who reminisce about how good things were at the dawn of the 21st.

[Grinder]

Being able to get some cyberware installed (especially eyes and ears) is enough for me o live in 2060/70. I don't think my profession will be outdated then (teacher of mental handicaped people), but still bad paid. Anyway, living in a world with elf chicks, magic and cyberware is an awesome thought.

[Witness]

I could happily live in a future with elf chicks, cyberware, AR and other cool stuff (though magic, as I've said before, would be bad IMO).
But I'd rather live in the future world that has all those things without all the dystopian horror of Shadowrun.

[Grinder]

Or you could do your best to make the world a better place then. Even when trying at a small scale.

[SL James]

Like any hot elf chick would be interested in a mediocre human.

As for your job... Depends. Some would be "fixed" in utero. Others would be "fixed" in other ways. You'd be busy among the SINless, though.

[Grinder]

As long as I enjoy my job, I don't care if I'm working with SINless, mental handicaped or bad monkeys. ;)

[NightmareX]

[NightmareX]

[mfb]

[Grinder]

:rotfl:

Germany is a wonderful country, isn't it?

[Milton]

[Milton]