On one hand, you have magic and gizmos and gadgets. Magic fucking rocks, and if the Awakening happens, I will become a mage by virtue of my rocking. Crippled people will walk and manipulate things again because of cloned organs and cyberware. Most current diseases will have been cured because of crazy unethical medical research.

On the other hand, you have soy food, monsters that go bump and "grr eat human" in the night, and megacorporate control. Oh, and cybered gangs, and drugs, and coffin motels, and... you get the point.

So which world would you live in, our world, or the world of sort-of-darkness?

yes, but only if I was magically active.

I've got no problems being a corporate lackey if it gives me the benefits of the 6th world. Some folks on this board think I'm a government lackey and I'm not seeing any magic or cool toys for it. Might as well get the goods if you're gonna get the reputation.

Live in the SR world? Where the OTHER 1% of the population has magic, strange and new wonderful diseases crop up every day, people shoot at medics and firefighters to try and steal their cars, and the happy middle class lifestyle is only possible if you're willing to expose yourself to corporate media and brainwashing 24/7? I think I'll pass.

Apart from the magic, we're well on our way to something similar already. Depending on what neighborhood you're in you might already be living it.

Heh.

Yeah, magic should even things out.

Yes. Because if I don't get magic, I can still deck.

It's a DYSTOPIA. EVERYTHING has gone wrong. Only depressed people would want to live in that.

What if you were a magician?

I would certainly be up for that...although I would like to pick up some new skills or something...I wouldn't want to end up being exactly who I am today and be living in SR...I would probably suck:)

The trick to living comfortably in SR is the same is it is today. Don't anger someone who has both the means and the willingness to kill you. Also, never become a cyberzombie.

If I were a mage, oh hell yes.

Dude, mages rock.

No thanks. If I wanted to live in an SR like setting I'd move to Somalia or Sierra Leone. I'm still in Seattle 'nuff said.

...only if I were human and lived in the Swiss Confederation.

I so voted no...

What do you mean by peachy? I thought that the average megacorp office was a really oppressive place with corp propaganda spewing everywhere and bureaucratic bullshit burying everything that you do, coupled with stupid passive-aggressive office politics keeping you from working efficiently like in Snow Crash's federal government. Those sound like good reasons to run to the shadows if you're good enough to survive on your own.

You just described the average megacorp office of today.

Honestly, I could go either way, though I guess it would mainly depend on whether or not my place in society would be better in the SR universe than it is in this one. Since I can't see any way of predicting that, I'll stick with this world. You know, bird in the hand and all that stuff.

EDIT: I just want to throw out a quote that seems to run through SR's history: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. No matter how often people lament the good old days, the quote is very, very true.

(Look it up, you ignoramuses. )

jesus christ, no. the fact that the real world is starting to soud like an RPG setting is scary enough.

I voted no as well.
I like being able to do my job without extensive cyber enhancement, thank you very much.

oh c'mon draggin, you can lose the arm... and part of your brain matter. A person can survive on less of that grey stuff, it's just filler space.

Do I get to be someone the rich or powerful come to and politely ask for help?

Or am I just another wage slave struggling to survive form month to month?

I suppose it would kind of depend if you got to choose where and how you lived in the SR universe.

Actually though magic is one thing I really wouldn't want to live with. I'm not sure SR has really successfully explored the consequences:

You get enormous power being 'inherited' by a large number of people covering every spectrum of ideology and morality.

Everyone (unless rich enough to place countermeasures) gets to feel totally paranoid about whether they are being magically spied upon or manipulated. (EDIT: in SR there really ought to be massive bias against magicians and spirits, far more so than anti-metahuman bigotry)

But worst of all, for an individual and for a society, you no longer have any way to tell what's real or not. Somebody could be bullshitting, or they could be talking about magic. If magic hit the real world I honestly think science and reason would evaporate, and the world would be a much worse place without them. IMO.

EDIT 2: Ah I see I've inadvertantly wandered into the same theme that's in emo's other thread. No matter.

Uh no. They don't read my emotions or astrally spy on my girlfriend in the shower. Let's get some perspective here!

I'd prefer to live in 2060 than have to live through 2011

The end is near!!

Well that just flags up the whole problem of there being riggers with minidrones everywhere!
No, the SR world is a significantly less pleasant place to live than the real world (however much we might bitch about it). I'm fairly astounded at the status of the poll so far.

yeah. i'm not sure the people who voted 'yes' fully understand why "may you live in interesting times" is a curse. to put it into perspective: Gaza would make a good setting for an interesting run. anybody want to move there?

Nope, but I wouldn't be living in Gaza, I'd be living in a corporate compound with it's own security forces, mall, and geisha house. The odds of a typical corporate citizen ever encountering a shadowrunner or terrorist in their day-to-day life are pretty slim.

I think this might be where the question breaks down.

Reckon a lot of people are answering 'yes, because in the SR world I'd be rich and uber.' Bless.

Nope, I wouldn't be rich and uber. I'd most likely be just what I am now: middle to upper middle class corporate grunt. Barring accidents of birth or twists of fate, ability coupled with actions determines where you are in life. So assuming my life remains comparatively the same as far as outside influences go, I should be at about the same spot.

If it weren't for the violence I'd probably be a shadowrunner. I'm allergic to pain though, which leaves that line of work out.

And you'd still rather live in the SR universe than this one?

Why not? Overall the life a typical citizen doesn't change much. Instead of living under the laws of Texas and the USA I live under the laws of whiever corporate enclave I work for, and sometimes under the laws of whichever country I step into outside my corp's doors. The world in the seedier areas is more dangerous, but it's not hard to avoid those areas.

In exchange I get much cooler toys, cybernetic replacements should I ever suffer the loss of a body part, cultivated organs should I ever need a transplant, nature is being slowly rebuilt and national parks are run by Native Americans that instead of crying in a TV commercial to tell you not to mess with Texas they power bolt you and send spirits of the earth to torment you, and when I go see a magic show it's real magic.

Th SR world is really only dangerous through:

• quirks of fate, like having the bad luck to be in the Arcology when Deus decides to start his reign of terror
• personal choice by going into the seedier sides of the world
• placing yourself in a position of importance, such as being a researcher on an important project

In my life now numbers two and three aren't a concern and number one can still happen, albeit with different flavor text attached.

Hmm. You build a decent case there, James. But it sounds to me like your vision of SR maybe isn't dystopian enough. Allow me!

You've probably lost all your savings in the Crash 2.0.
Your corporation is now picking up your tab and owns your ass in perpetuity (as well as the asses of all future generations of McMurrays).
You've been moved to a miserable office with grey lighting and there's no windows within 500 yards, and they don't let you decorate it with AR because that's a distraction.
You work 12 hours a day, because if you don't someone else will, and when I say work, I really do mean work, because they're always watching you.
You spend another three hours a day stuck in traffic because some git's blown up half the street.
Hackers keep taking money out of your account, and nobody seems to want to do anything about it.
You can't go out at night without a) somebody picking your pockets, b) somebody picking a fight with you, c) somebody trying to sell you their 'services', or d) somebody trying to recruit you to a cult.
You get assaulted by spam just about everywhere you go, despite spending half your life and wage upgrading your filters to the latest version you can afford. You'd turn your commlink off, but you need it on to pass the toll booths.
You are bombarded by glamorous trid shows full of cool tech that you can't actually afford (probably ever), while simultaneously getting bombarded with the message that you're just a wageslave among a billion and you'll never amount to anything more (so why not try our new SimThriller experience!).
Your 14-year old daughter comes home one day as an Ork poser.
She's dating a troll called FcukU who chews pencils like some punks would chew toothpicks. And sometimes you swear she's walking funny.

I'd have to toss my chips in with James.

I'd still live in a tiny apartment, except now I can be pretty sure I will have the money for my rent plus medical care, and the commute will likely be kinder. I'll also have the advantage of the private facilities of my corporation, and the general mindset that taking care of my personal life for me means I will work better. I'll likely have a job which actually tests my skills because putting a programmer in charge of intern work is a waste of resources. I'd have cyberware, which is awesome, and the matrix, which is awesome. Assuming I'm coming in at about the same social class I'm in now, in the real world, disease and the barrens aren't really a concern. My luxury time includes better online games, more fun movies, more geeky pursuits I enjoy.

The big downside is I'd have to work longer hours and see less of my actual pay (swapping it out for other extras the job offers) and nasty food. Strangely enough, jobs seem more secure in Shadowrun than they do IRL due to the concept of corporate loyalty. Life expectancy is surprisingly high.

Sure, Shadowrun has its risks, but so does real life, and playing as shadowrunners, we generally ONLY see the risky parts of the job. Most people in the shadowrun universe likely make it through their entire life without contracting a mysterious disease, getting shot, kidnapped, tested upon, dissected, etc.

To answer the comments here:

- You've probably lost all your savings in the Crash 2.0.

Being young, I have about $7k in the bank. I'll live.

-Your corporation is now picking up your tab and owns your ass in perpetuity (as well as the asses of all future generations of McMurrays).

So they have a vested interest in making sure I'm healthy and happy, no?

-You've been moved to a miserable office with grey lighting and there's no windows within 500 yards, and they don't let you decorate it with AR because that's a distraction.

That's where I am now (except the window is closer to 30 yards, but it overlooks a parking lot).

-You work 12 hours a day, because if you don't someone else will, and when I say work, I really do mean work, because they're always watching you.

This is my one luxury But at least I'd work doing what I enjoy - programming, instead of the stupid work I do now.

-You spend another three hours a day stuck in traffic because some git's blown up half the street.

This depends on where you work. If I'm still in the gov't, yeah. If I'm in a corporation, especially one that expects me to work 12 hours a day, this is a lot less likely. They are far more likely to make sure corporate housing is available, or at least there is housing available in the local area. An hour drive + odds of accidents seriously impacts productivity and dependability of ALL employees.

-Hackers keep taking money out of your account, and nobody seems to want to do anything about it.

I question this as well. Zurich - the banking corporation - has very, very tough systems. Do you have any evidence that hacking money out of accounts is a regularly occuring problem in Shadowrun? Even with dedicated decker characters, I've yet to see anyone even try.

-You can't go out at night without a) somebody picking your pockets, b) somebody picking a fight with you, c) somebody trying to sell you their 'services', or d) somebody trying to recruit you to a cult.

I'm a geek. I don't go out anyways.

-You get assaulted by spam just about everywhere you go, despite spending half your life and wage upgrading your filters to the latest version you can afford. You'd turn your commlink off, but you need it on to pass the toll booths.

I'm a geek. I get harassed by spam anyways.

-You are bombarded by glamorous trid shows full of cool tech that you can't actually afford (probably ever), while simultaneously getting bombarded with the message that you're just a wageslave among a billion and you'll never amount to anything more (so why not try our new SimThriller experience!).

I'm a geek, I look at things I can't buy anyways. Seriously, this is a reason why I should turn down the shadowrun life? I'd already have a datajack, how cool is that???

-Your 14-year old daughter comes home one day as an Ork poser.

Hawt. Oh wait, she's my daughter? Huh... That's a shame.

-She's dating a troll called FcukU who chews pencils like some punks would chew toothpicks. And sometimes you swear she's walking funny.

Again, seriously, how is this different from real life? It's not like teenage pregnancy isn't a common problem. Plus at least now I can tell Lone Star that FcukU has been up to some BTL dealing and they can go break some knee caps. After all, he is a troll, we know they're all dock workers or dealers anyway, right?

So they've tried to create a game that's a grim futuristic dystopia, a lot like the modern world, perhaps, but much much worse, based on a bunch of tropes about how sucky the world is and how it's all going to hell in a handbasket. We play in this universe as Shadowrunners, because then at least we get to play with cool toys and do dangerous and exciting things, and it doesn't actually matter if we 'die'.

But the significant majority of people frequenting DS really think that that world would really be a better place to live than this one? Wow. I am so depressed!

They built a world based on the extreme fears of the '80s, not of the present day. The extreme anti-punk attitude, threats based on nationalism and privacy, both concepts most people have already largely given up. It's also a world built on "what can we put in that's cool" and "how would this employer operate to maximize income", both of which have benefits for the individual.

Plus, I've tried living here. It was fun. I think if I lived in the shadowrun universe and you asked me if I wanted to live in 2006 or 1946 or whatever, I would have a difficult time passing it up. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see it.

It's about the most flagrant case of 'the grass is always greener' that I've ever seen!
But to each their own.