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> Mystic Adepts, Who's Done What with them?
Antimuppet
post Nov 16 2005, 06:05 AM
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I'm still working on my first character - only had the book for a couple of weeks now. (THANKS MOO!)

He's a shamanistic mystic adept with a yen for shapeshifting into a big honkin' black dog. The one thing I have to worry about with him is his lack of armor as the dog. Sure, with Combat Sense, Dodge and a good Reaction score (6 in Dog Form), I've got something like 13 dice on a complex action for Full Defense, but bullets are gonna hurt.

What else have people gotten up to with Mystic Adepts?
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Fortune
post Nov 16 2005, 06:09 AM
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The Mystic Armor adept Power is always an option. ;)
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BGMFH
post Nov 16 2005, 06:17 AM
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Im loking at an elf with only one power point, and the other 5 for magic, simply to leave advancement options open, and maybe some evil GM munchkinness if ever needed.
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ElFenrir
post Nov 16 2005, 06:18 AM
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Mystic Armor=good. Only .5 point, 1/1 ballistic/impact, and even works astrally. Cumulative with worn armor. As a big black dog, will be very helpful!

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Siege
post Nov 16 2005, 06:19 AM
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I never delved too deeply into physical mages because they were deemed early as either too weak initially or horribly abusive with some karma.

Of course, that was primarily my group's experience.

-Siege
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BGMFH
post Nov 16 2005, 06:24 AM
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In 4th they are much better balanced Siege
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Siege
post Nov 16 2005, 06:41 AM
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I've skimmed the rules, although I didn't get the chance to run one.

Considering the costs involved in acquiring Magic, mystic adepts tend to be even weaker than either counterpart in 4th edition.

Which is fine if the party can afford an oddball character, instead of depending on the mystic adept for either full adept or magic support roles.

The only real difference between 3rd and 4th is the varying amount of Magic, rather than a default 6 in 3rd.

-Siege
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blakkie
post Nov 16 2005, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (BGMFH)
In 4th they are much better balanced Siege

That's what i thought too, but apparently they somehow got themselves back on the Bubba Love Troll dating list again. :(
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Siege
post Nov 16 2005, 03:58 PM
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Like anything else, it depends on the player.

-Siege
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Antimuppet
post Nov 16 2005, 04:26 PM
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The next plan, after I make up a heap of other characters, is to try out a combat mystic adept with Improved Reaction 1 and 4 Magic for spellcasting, just to have a speedy spell slinger who doesn't have to depend on a sustaining focus.
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ogbendog
post Nov 16 2005, 04:28 PM
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just slap the bioware in that gives one more pass, and use the rest for cyber eyes and ears
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blakkie
post Nov 16 2005, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 16 2005, 09:58 AM)
Like anything else, it depends on the player.

-Siege

You mean whether or not GM follows what is apparently canon. The were certainly acceptable up until the report of violent penetration showed up.

EDIT: Which i guess follows the pattern. They were pretty good in SR3, maybe even a bit over the top with the use of Geas....until the FAQ cornholed them.
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Azralon
post Nov 16 2005, 04:38 PM
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The Mystic Adept I have now is a 4/1 split, with the 1 point going into Astral Perception. I took Incomp in Summoning and Binding since I plan on playing him as a sorcerer with a few innate magic tricks. A little bit of Combat Sense and Mystic Armor in particular.

I'd like to be pumping adept points into the initiative boost, but it's far more cost-efficient (with regards to karma) to run the spell in a sustaining focus. Five whole adept points to get +3 to Reaction and +3 IPs is a huge investment, as opposed to just spending some money and a little karma for the spell and focus. True, the adept power can't be dispelled and will pass through astral barriers without argument... but oy. That's a lotta initiating and Magic increases to get there.

Like I said, he's supposed to be primarily a caster so I do want to spend most of my karma on the sorcery side of my Magic rating. I feel the slippery slope of too much diversity and I'm trying to resist the temptations.
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blakkie
post Nov 16 2005, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon @ Nov 16 2005, 10:38 AM)
The Mystic Adept I have now is a 4/1 split, with the 1 point going into Astral Perception.  I took Incomp in Summoning and Binding since I plan on playing him as a sorcerer with a few innate magic tricks.  A little bit of Combat Sense and Mystic Armor in particular.

So you'll have a mage that lost a point of Magic just like he had implanted some Orthoskin and Muscle Toner but without the benefits of the 'ware till he's bought even more Magic and diverted from that from being a mage too...oh, and he can't Project.

EDIT: That's not to say he won't be better off than a mundane in a longterm, high karma campaign. But that's a different issue that goes more to the unlimited nature of awakened PCs. I suppose in a longterm, high karma campaign he could even arguable level off with Adepts (such is the utility of spells).
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Siege
post Nov 16 2005, 04:50 PM
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I saw that, but:

In 3rd edition, a Physical Mage was assumed to have 6 Magic Points to spend starting out, making them weaker than either full-on wizards or adepts. They still had to spend points on adept powers, leaving the balance for spells.

In 4th edition, they are subject to the same penalty as adepts and wizards - variable and usually limited starting Magic, but the basic rule has not changed. Anything not spent on Adept powers goes to "Magic" for spellcasting purposes.

In 4th edition, they are weaker than their 3rd edition counterparts, but in 4th edition, most characters are initially weaker across the board. Essentially, the standard has simply been lowered.

-Siege
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Captain_Blie
post Nov 16 2005, 04:55 PM
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Whoops. :D
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blakkie
post Nov 16 2005, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (Siege)
I saw that, but:

In 3rd edition, a Physical Mage was assumed to have 6 Magic Points to spend starting out, making them weaker than either full-on wizards or adepts. They still had to spend points on adept powers, leaving the balance for spells.

In 4th edition, they are subject to the same penalty as adepts and wizards - variable and usually limited starting Magic, but the basic rule has not changed. Anything not spent on Adept powers goes to "Magic" for spellcasting purposes.

In 4th edition, they are weaker than their 3rd edition counterparts, but in 4th edition, most characters are initially weaker across the board. Essentially, the standard has simply been lowered.

-Siege

What has changed in 4th that humps them is maximum spell Force = Magic x 2, and how the old Force 1, for lack of a better word, loopholes closed up.

P.S. In 3rd edition the MW Adept's saving grace was geasing the Magic Power. So they were right in there as starting characters. It was the FAQ's take on Initiation for them where they got tapped by Bubba.
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Siege
post Nov 16 2005, 05:05 PM
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What spells would you have purchased for Physical Mages? Or, in 4th edition, Mystic Adepts?

How many spells don't require a relatively high Force to be effective? I can only think of two or three that might be worth a damn.

In 3rd edition, any spell force that exceeded Magic became physical drain, which in turn meant a Physical Mage could toss off one or two spells before being emptied like a battery left running too long.

-Siege
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blakkie
post Nov 16 2005, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 16 2005, 11:05 AM)
In 3rd edition, any spell force that exceeded Magic became physical drain, which in turn meant a Physical Mage could toss off one or two spells before being emptied like a battery left running too long.

The main forum has numerous whole threads on the subject on Force 1 SR3 spells, but a short list to get started:

Increased Reflexes (1, 2, or 3), Invisibility, and Improved Invisibility were good starts for the Force 1 list (in canon of course). :) That's all history now.

Heal/Treat was normally fine at midling Force levels because as written extra successes could at least be used to lower time, which as written is no longer the case. Also damage tracks have gotten longer, so a given box is often worth a bit more now depending on the target's Attribute. EDIT: SR3 Force 1 Heal/Treat wasn't that great though, it's use would be more for the occational patch job on a Light wound (receiving just 1 box of damage being more likely in SR3) or the oh-crap-emergency stabilizer.

A lot of the Detect spells in SR3 were still quite useful at Force 1, the Inventory spell was often more useful cast at lower Force than higher because of the lower range. Inventory hasn't shown up yet in SR4, but to give some examples of what is there right now many Detect [Obect] spells are COMPLETELY worthless (simply cannot succeed) until you use at least Force 4 or 5, and with low Force the passive Detect spells (Clairvoyance, et. al.) are like looking through a shit splattered windshield.

So are the SR4 version of Force 1 or 2 spells entirely without use? Well some are. But mostly it is that they overall (so far) either had low/limited utility in SR3 and maintain that now, or received somewhere between a modest reduction and a full out kick to the happy sac during the move to SR4.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, i applaud those spell changes. I'd be disappointed if Street Magic reversed the trend. I'm also not suggesting that the SR3 MW Adept was a major fire and lightning combat mage. Well, unless they cheezed it with a Geas on 6 points of the Magic Power. :spin: Then they could at least start out as one. Nor would i expect Mystic Adepts to be able to hang with the truely red hot avatars of spell slinging destruction, the reduced Spellcasting pool hurts.
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Azralon
post Nov 16 2005, 09:02 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie @ Nov 16 2005, 12:47 PM)
EDIT: That's not to say he won't be better off than a mundane in a longterm, high karma campaign.  But that's a different issue that goes more to the unlimited nature of awakened PCs.  I suppose in a longterm, high karma campaign he could even arguable level off with Adepts (such is the utility of spells).

Now you see the plan.

Although, with the very recent information that Mystic Adepts actually don't use their full Magic rating to determine spell Force caps, the character build theory is now busted.

Gonna just go rebuild him into a full normal mage. Jeez, way to be unclear on yet another thing, FanPro. By d6s, you mean dice, right? :P
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blakkie
post Nov 16 2005, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Nov 16 2005, 12:47 PM)
EDIT: That's not to say he won't be better off than a mundane in a longterm, high karma campaign.  But that's a different issue that goes more to the unlimited nature of awakened PCs.  I suppose in a longterm, high karma campaign he could even arguable level off with Adepts (such is the utility of spells).

Now you see the plan.

The plan is they are humped unless you run your campaign out to hundreds of karma, at which point they get company in the humped department?

If so then i feel confident in my assertion that the plan sucks. :P
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Azralon
post Nov 16 2005, 09:54 PM
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Yeah, dude. "OMG, I'm at -1 Magic compared to what I coulda been. I am so BONED."
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warrior_allanon
post Nov 17 2005, 06:20 AM
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made one in SR3 and made one in SR4 after playing phys ads for years, magically they are usually gimped early on, but the trick is to not play their magic skills early on, play them as a normal phys ad in the begining, then use karma to up your magical ability (sr3 initiate SR4 take it up and initiate)

someone pm me where i can hand off both my new character sheet and for people to see and use the template.
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Lilt
post Nov 17 2005, 12:52 PM
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I personally think you could do quite well with low spellcasting magic and high physad magic. That stops you from being able to cast the uber-high force spells, and gives you a fair few power points to play with, but that means you can overcast to the max and still expect to take the drain.

A single point of magic (or possibly even a mystic adept with all points into physical abilities, depending on how you interpret the rules) is enough to let you use Counterspelling. As counterspelling isn't rolled with your magic attribute, spellcasting magic 1 is just fine for it. As counterspelling is one of the most valuable things an awakened character can provide a team, I'd say it's a good choice.

Definately buy and bond a force 2 power focus at character creation. At 6BP per point of force (25k :nuyen: costs 5BP, plus 1BP to bond) it's a better deal than extra magic attribute unless you're really wanting to cast high force spells or summon high-force spirits.
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blakkie
post Nov 17 2005, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
Yeah, dude. "OMG, I'm at -1 Magic compared to what I coulda been. I am so BONED."

*shrug* That's how casters are. Anything off the top end really hurts. Moreso than in SR3 too, where Magic was a lot cheaper and didn't have as much weight in the mechanics.
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